Physical Violence on Track

povol · May 18, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
You can't have it both ways. Now have they done major changes to the Ducati or have they not? If not, then it is essentially the same bike as Stoner rode to race wins last year and therefore is a winning package. If they have done major changes then WTF, isn't Rossi the best developer in the known universe so how can the bike be worse?

As far as the Honda goes, I firmly believe that if Stoner was not riding it then Pedrosa would still be trying to fix it. But since Stoner started whipping the arse of the other long term Honda riders on their bike they have pulled their finger out and got on with it. This is at least part of the reason the Honda is looking so good. Perhaps the Honda has been this good for a long time the riders just weren't capitalising on it because they were trying to make it perfect instead of just riding the F'ing thing. Also Stoner has brought team work into the Honda pit and this is dragging the Honda forward rather than it all being about Pedrosa. If you say that the Honda would still be as good as it appears then you are suggesting that Stoner has had ZERO impact at Honda and that would be plain ignorant.

So you can not say with out it being pure speculation that the Honda would be as good as it is now and also that Stoner would not have been able to win on the Ducati when the evidence suggests that Stoner can win on the Ducati without it being the best or even second best bike on the grid.

So if you and Talpa are happy that Rossi coming 3rd (gifted but really 5th) is a stella performance then good on you. But from the comments of others above you are probably close to being on your own.

Agree,Dani's comfort zone is small and he was always searching for the perfect setup, something that never happens on a motorcycle. Stoner has shown Dani that being fast is good enough, then its up to the rider.

bigbang · May 18, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Rossi would have won last year's Le Mans GP easily with the performance on the Ducati he produced last Sunday

No, he wouldn't. This year the track conditions were much better than last year.

Mr Squiggle · May 18, 2011

Talpa said:
not at all, actually Rossis performance on the Duck at le mans was Stella. Stoner is riding an amazing missle and his performances are not surprising, neither is his absurd, childish behaviour.

Stoner is inventing his own reality this season and creating his own controversy, 4 rounds in and we have 4 good examples

Illegally/dangerously jumped the fence at Jerez....to what end?

Delusionally accused Rossi of getting a tow, and made a huge issue of something that never occured!

Dangerously turned and pumped his fist at Aoyama whilst at full throttle wobbling past.

And of course, punching de puniet whilst doing over 100kph.

I don't need to invent anything, Casey does it all by himself.Youlot are the ones struggling to continually defend him, no doubt

he will be harshly received at many circuits this year, hardly clever or Stella.....and unlike all Other previous Aussie champs. Stoner may continue to win, but could possibly go down as the fastest rider to be disliked so much......and when we remember riders like this i.e Kosinski you don't recall his great performances, only that he was a massive cock, Stoner is heading this way as quick as his race pace on Sunday.....no doubt you'll also try to blame Rossi for this too

Hehe you crack me up....I could only imagine the prima donna histrionics you would go on with if you were on the world stage under the stress of competing in the premiere class of bike racing

You have demonstrated your uncontrolled rage and propensity for nuclear meltdown time and time again - you are truly a bizarre character....but thanks for being so entertaining and keeping many of the forum members in stitches

J4rn0 · May 18, 2011

bigbang said:
No, he wouldn't. This year the track conditions were much better than last year.

It is the second time you say this, so now you should explain in what way they were better...

Anyway, do not think too hard. We all agree that track conditions are the same for everybody. But Lorenzo, who won there last year, was only marginally faster than last year on his Yamaha and even being faster, he arrived only 4th. Others were more or less the same as Lorenzo compared to last year, with the notable exception of the Honda riders who were way faster than everybody else.

Maybe they resurfaced the track in a privileged lane, just for the Hondas?

bigbang · May 18, 2011

J4rn0 said:
It is the second time you say this, so now you should explain in what way they were better...

Ground temperature 29º this year while last year it was 51º. That's a huge difference.

J4rn0 said:
Anyway, do not think too hard. I think we all agree that track conditions are the same for everybody. But Lorenzo, who won there last year, was only marginally faster than last year on his Yamaha and even being faster, he arrived only 4th. Others were more or less the same as Lorenzo compared to last year, with the notable exception of the Honda riders who were way faster than everybody else.

Maybe they resurfaced the track in a privileged lane, just for the Hondas?

Lorenzo destroyed his first bike in the warm-up plus seems he injured a finger in the crash. I doubt he was at 100%.

povol · May 18, 2011

bigbang said:
Ground temperature 29º this year while last year it was 51º. That's a huge difference.

Lorenzo destroyed his first bike in the warm-up plus seems he injured a finger in the crash. I doubt he was at 100%.

Not to mention Honda has a new rider who happens to be the fastest on the grid, plus they had a new tire.

J4rn0 · May 18, 2011

bigbang said:
Ground temperature 29º this year while last year it was 51º. That's a huge difference.

Lorenzo destroyed his first bike in the warm-up plus seems he injured a finger in the crash. I doubt he was at 100%.

Come on. That kind of difference in track temperature (29° against 51°, with an air temperature that was actually cold, only 17° against 34° last year) cannot be described as "much better" track conditions! They are not even 'better', it's just spring conditions against typical summer conditions. It simply means they have to use a softer tire, rather than a hard one.

Nicky Hayden for instance was actually faster last year.

Truth is, it is the Hondas that are consistently faster this year: Dovi was more than 16 seconds faster this year than last year, at Le Mans. Hayden and Dovi are the only top riders that were on the same bike last year, and their results have been opposite. You cannot explain that with a cooler track...

Lorenzo was 4 seconds faster this year than last year; yes, he had some problems, but I would not consider these problems big enough to have slowed him down to the point of arriving 21 seconds behind Stoner, -- if really his potential was to stay with him, or at the very least with Pedro and Sic, as you imply.

I think the stop and go characteristic of the Le Mans track have made Honda's advantage in acceleration even more apparent, that's all.

J4rn0 · May 18, 2011

povol said:
Not to mention Honda has a new rider who happens to be the fastest on the grid, plus they had a new tire.

We know that Stoner is fast, but when all four Honda factory riders are fast -- very often as fast as Stoner, using the same bike and same tires -- well, there is only one conclusion.

Especially when all other non-Honda top riders appear to be significantly slower than them.

Arrabbiata1 · May 18, 2011

J4rn0 said:
We know that Stoner is fast, but when all four Honda factory riders are fast -- very often as fast as Stoner, using the same bike and same tires -- well, there is only one conclusion.

Especially when all other non-Honda top riders appear to be significantly slower than them.

That HRC have signed four fast factory riders?

Keshav · May 18, 2011

bigbang said:
No, he wouldn't. This year the track conditions were much better than last year.

You no doubt have a corroborating source for this news?

Keshav · May 18, 2011

Talpa said:
not at all, actually Rossis performance on the Duck at le mans was Stella. Stoner is riding an amazing missle and his performances are not surprising, neither is his absurd, childish behaviour.

Stoner is inventing his own reality this season and creating his own controversy, 4 rounds in and we have 4 good examples

Illegally/dangerously jumped the fence at Jerez....to what end?

Delusionally accused Rossi of getting a tow, and made a huge issue of something that never occured!

Dangerously turned and pumped his fist at Aoyama whilst at full throttle wobbling past.

And of course, punching de puniet whilst doing over 100kph.

I don't need to invent anything, Casey does it all by himself.Youlot are the ones struggling to continually defend him, no doubt

he will be harshly received at many circuits this year, hardly clever or Stella.....and unlike all Other previous Aussie champs. Stoner may continue to win, but could possibly go down as the fastest rider to be disliked so much......and when we remember riders like this i.e Kosinski you don't recall his great performances, only that he was a massive cock, Stoner is heading this way as quick as his race pace on Sunday.....no doubt you'll also try to blame Rossi for this too

C'mon Talp. Really? Dangerously?

What about all the times Ross has stood up on the pegs while in the middle of the live pit area to adjust his balls?

The potential for disaster is mind boggling.

It's been said before and it'll be said again. At the end of the day, when Stoner's out in the wild shooting wild boar

and doin' the wifey, he won't be fretting over the likes or dislikes of the fans. The guy seems pretty much inured to all

that stuff. The haters have a rather inflated opinion as regards the influence of their likes and dislikes upon the riders. These guys are competing for the championship, not the affections of the fans.

J4rn0 · May 18, 2011

Arrabbiata1 said:
That HRC have signed four fast factory riders?

Nice one.

If you think that those are the "magnificent four", the fastest ones in the world, then maybe...

povol · May 18, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Come on. That kind of difference in track temperature (29° against 51°, with an air temperature that was actually cold, only 17° against 34° last year) cannot be described as "much better" track conditions! They are not even 'better', it's just spring conditions against typical summer conditions. It simply means they have to use a softer tire, rather than a hard one.

Nicky Hayden for instance was actually faster last year.

Truth is, it is the Hondas that are consistently faster this year: Dovi was more than 16 seconds faster this year than last year, at Le Mans. Hayden and Dovi are the only top riders that were on the same bike last year, and their results have been opposite. You cannot explain that with a cooler track...

Lorenzo was 4 seconds faster this year than last year; yes, he had some problems, but I would not consider these problems big enough to have slowed him down to the point of arriving 21 seconds behind Stoner, -- if really his potential was to stay with him, or at the very least with Pedro and Sic, as you imply.

I think the stop and go characteristic of the Le Mans track have made Honda's advantage in acceleration even more apparent, that's all.

So, you dont think that 40 degrees in track temperature { 84 degrees, compared to 124 degrees] makes a difference in how a tire adheres to asphalt. Your losing credibility with statements like that. 124 degrees asphalt is very hot and very greasy.LeMans is reported to be a low grip track,heat it up and the grip gets even worse. That and the new rubber could very easily be the difference between last years times and this years.The Honda has gotten better during the off season, but its not the light year jump you are suggesting.It was the best bike for the last half of 2010, Stoner has just shown the others how to ride it.

J4rn0 · May 18, 2011

povol said:
So, you dont think that 40 degrees in track temperature { 84 degrees, compared to 124 degrees] makes a difference in how a tire adheres to asphalt. Your losing credibility with statements like that. 124 degrees asphalt is very hot and very greasy.LeMans is reported to be a low grip track,heat it up and the grip gets even worse. That and the new rubber could very easily be the difference between last years times and this years.The Honda has gotten better during the off season, but its not the light year jump you are suggesting.It was the best bike for the last half of 2010, Stoner has just shown the others how to ride it.

Again -- track conditions are the same for all, right?

I said it does not explain the dramatic improvement in times by the Hondas, especially in the face of the fact that no other bikes have improved their times as much, or even come close. How can you say that the Hondas have been faster mainly because of track conditions, when all other bikes on the same track have been slower or just marginally faster? Numbers do not lie.

The fact that the Hondas have made a quantum leap is widely recognized in the MotoGP world this year. Feel free to stick to your (very) personal opinion though.

halfpint · May 18, 2011

I've just had a look to see who this Magee person is you talk about (my bloke is magee and did race bikes he belonged preston race club, and was on a suzuki promo). I can not believe you guys are .... hot on your racers!!!!!! I mean that crash happen in 1989 and from what i see of the actual crash involving Bubba and Magee is, i think, Magee coming off his bike, typically of that era there was a tree hiding the real action. And what was with the guy in the white suit doing with his arm waving it like that - is that the sign for rider down broken limb (cause he sure looked like he'd broken his arm from the elbow down)

I am impressed with your knowledge of bikes the racers especially the ones that don't strictly come to mind. Do you lot sit all day watching re runs of old racers to catch one another out on such discussions

I don my hat in the presance of your greatness!!!!!

Talpa · May 18, 2011

Thereis certainly one major improvement from last year, and that was from the no 1 ducati, probably about 22 laps faster

btw this is about casey cocks punch. Has anyone ever seen a deliberate act of violence against another rider as bad as this? If not, the one must consider it to be a precident of which the punishment seems to have been just invented?

Talpa · May 18, 2011

Mr Squiggle' timestamp='1305733046' post='279716 said:
Hehe you crack me up....I could only imagine the prima donna histrionics you would go on with if you were on the world stage under the stress of competing in the premiere class of bike

racing

You have demonstrated your uncontrolled rage and propensity for nuclear meltdown time and time again - you are truly a

bizarre character....but thanks for being so entertaining and

keeping many of the forum members in stitches

like I said don't even consider me, ask the french fans who

erupted in scathing boos and geers on Sunday. The guy has

been booed many times before and he will be remembered for

his prickly persona, and massive ego, as kosinski is.....

What is truly funny is the same old boners attemted defence of stoners behaviour

I certainly haven't witnessed worse from the yellow camp.....

MdubSTYLIE · May 18, 2011

C'mon Tapls, give Casey a break for once. Who doesnt want to punch a Frenchmen?

povol · May 18, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Again -- track conditions are the same for all, right?

I said it does not explain the dramatic improvement in times by the Hondas, especially in the face of the fact that no other bikes have improved their times as much, or even come close. How can you say that the Hondas have been faster mainly because of track conditions, when all other bikes on the same track have been slower or just marginally faster? Numbers do not lie.

The fact that the Hondas have made a quantum leap is widely recognized in the MotoGP world this year. Feel free to stick to your (very) personal opinion though.

Lorenzo was 23 seconds faster this year at Estoril than he was last year.

inam22 · May 18, 2011

povol said:
Lorenzo was 23 seconds faster this year at Estoril than he was last year.

If i remember correctly last year Estoril race was started in slightly damp conditions

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