Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Trying to affect the pace of another rider is not "racing for position". These are two diffferent things.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Because it doesnt matter. Firstly it cannot be proved that he wasn't and until I see some sort of smoking gun otherwise, I'll continue to share that view. Secondly, he cannot be punished if he didn't break any official rules.
Rossi has had numerous incidents where he whould have been reprimanded, but because he hasn't broken any official rules, he correctly wasn't.
Rossi has had numerous incidents where he whould have been reprimanded, but because he hasn't broken any official rules, he correctly wasn't.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
In YOUR opinion. That is not FACT. And again I iterate, show any of us on the FIM regulations what rule number Marquez broke.
By that argument, why did Lorenzo not get any sactions for Valencia 2013? There he was clearly trying to bunch the pack up by interferring with the two Repsol Honda's pace...and arguably most of the frontrunning field.
ETA: What about Laguna 2008. There are numerous sources that claim Rossi brake checked Stoner before he ran off. There has never been any proof surfaced to credit or discredit this claim. Rossi says he didn't, Stoner said he wasn't sure. So where is this different to the "Was Marquez going flat out or not" argument?
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Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
There has been enough drama to catch CNN's attention.
MotoGP: Online petition fuels Valentino Rossi debate - CNN.com
MotoGP: Online petition fuels Valentino Rossi debate - CNN.com
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Homey - It - Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, smells like a duck, it's a duck. True there's no rule against what MM was doing, but the underlying reason for all the ruckus is a question of ethics, and what MM was doing was by no means ethical. Rossi's move was a .... move and can't be excused. Yes - brought it on himself - but MM should have been a pro and embarrassed Rossi by leaving him in the dust for a 4th place.
Forgetting the ..... Rossi fanatics, even reasonable people are pissed at MM for ruining the what has been for fans, the best season in years. Instead of going down in the history books as one of the most golden years in recent memory - it'll go down as the most infamous ruinations of a great season
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Either you guys are deaf or pretend to be. Your freedom of course, being deaf is not a crime. We all know MM's behavior was "guilty but not punishable" as Mike Webb put it, but the fact remains that it wasn't innocent behavior. Not by a mile. So you can't go on just answering "he didnt break any rules". We all know that. Thank you.
Laguna 2008 is not the right example -- those were two riders racing for the win and the title, it was a proper all-out battle. If you want to find an example in which Rossi behaved something like MM at P.I. and Sepang you should rather refer to Motegi 2010 when he fought his teammate like his life depended on it, when he had nothing really at stake actually.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Really clutching at straws now. A really, really bada analogy!
If we are talking ethics, lets talk Jerez 05, Laguna 08, Motegi 10 not to mention times Rossi has personally ridiculed other riders (like Biaggi and the blow up doll incident) amongst others. Lets talk about Rossi personally attacking Marquez in the press conferences on Thursday. When Rossi races hard, he's epic and brings excitement to the sport. When Marquez came in, he was exciting and brought excitement to the sport, until it affected Valentino Rossi. Now he's being branded unethical by many people who support the one man who has arguably been the most unethical rider this millenium. No one but MM knows for sure what his race pace could have been, so to present his pace as fact is considerable speculation.
I personally am not 100% convinced by the Marquez sandbagging theory. The lap times Rossi and he were doing were consistent with riders battling as hard as they were. I'm not saying MM wasn't, but what I'm saying is I've satisfied myself with the evidence available and not the seed planted by Rossi.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Show me where I said Marquez was innocent in those exact words? And that's exactly how I'm answering: Marquez wasn't punished because he didn't break any rules. I can go on saying that just as long as you can say his behaviour was, and I quote you "Guilty but not punishable", where's the difference?
You can't prove your point anymore than I could prove mine. But as one poster said, all this drama over a motorcycle race?
Ok, as you say, lets use Motegi 2010 as an example. What goes around comes around.
Joined Sep 2009
482 Posts | 198+
Austin, Tx. USA
This season we have seen Rossi bested in a few hard fought battles. With Ianonne. and with Pedrosa for example. He's given them thumbs up on the cool down lap and accolades post race. These guys know when something not kosher. imo there was zero doubt that rossi knew marc was not running a normal race in PI. he tried to defuse it by calling him out. It didn't work.
BTW how fast were they going when marc went down? anyone know?
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Basically Agostini says things that are very reasonable: Rossi lost his nerve and self-control, not only during the race but already at the Press Conference. He stresses that he should not have brought up the controversy on Thursday, before a crucial race. However he never says that Rossi was wrong in his allegations.
Joined Oct 2012
3K Posts | 725+
Crab Key
Steeeeeve. If you'd posted about MM shenanigans straight after PI, I would support your POV.
You didn't (as far as I know), so I shan't.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
The difference is that MM was also found guilty by Race Direction, albeit "not punishable under the rules". You like to gliss over that significant part of Race Direction's conclusions, but it's there. Until you acknowledge it, you are just playing deaf pretending it's only my opinion against yours, but it's not.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
All due respect. Re: Rossi's move - we're on the same page. Re: MM's pace - that's anyone's guess - but judging from his race at PI and his qualifying pace at Sepang, one could empirically surmise that he could have passed Rossi who was not riding all that well to begin with. Human nature being what it is, and Marquez being known for being hot-headed and more than willing to do risky stuff to humiliate Rossi (wittness the pass in the corkscrew at Laguna) all (empirical) evidence points to his behavior as being premeditated. The seed of this belief, was, for me at least, not planted by Rossi. It was the first thing I thought when I was watching it happen live.
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Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
What VR did to Lorenzo at Motegi 2010 with overtake maneuvers was in very close to what went on in Sepang before MM went down.
I've seen some elsewhere claim that this was acceptable because Lorenzo was so far ahead in the points lead, that what was the big deal. Make of that what you will.
I've seen some elsewhere claim that this was acceptable because Lorenzo was so far ahead in the points lead, that what was the big deal. Make of that what you will.
