<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Jul 23 2009, 03:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Political discussion sucks, for one this is a motorcycle talk forum. If we're going to change the subject can we at least make it something fun, like big ....ies?
a ...... men brother!
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Jul 23 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Political discussion sucks, for one this is a motorcycle talk forum. If we're going to change the subject can we at least make it something fun, like big ....ies?
Here you go again with the "big ....ies". Didn't you get enough of that at Limpeys. (Odd name for a place where all the waitresses had big tities, eh, hahaha.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 23 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh great, i energized pinks & side kick. ....; Unintended consequences.
Sorry peeps, i take full responsibility. I apologize. .... on me all u want. My bad. Hahaha.
You should have known they would be sniffing around anything close to Stacey Moaners ...
Sorry peeps, i take full responsibility. I apologize. .... on me all u want. My bad. Hahaha.
You should have known they would be sniffing around anything close to Stacey Moaners ...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 23 2009, 08:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel, you might want to check your X-ray vision.
So would you like to reconsider what you think you saw?
(Anybody have one of them "owned" emoticons laying around, I need one asap).
I'm not standing up for the 'Babel' here but i have personally witnessed legendary Race engineer/Team Manager (here in oz) "Steve Trinder" notice and comment on the fact that 'the bike was not slapping him on the ... as much into turn 1 now'.
The Rider was Judd Greedy now deceased -RIP mate, the track was QLD Raceway, the bike was a Supersport Gixxer 600 and he was next to me at the other end (turn 6) of the main straight. No telemetry or Money in this team at that time either
So I guess it depends on your skill and level of qualification.....
So would you like to reconsider what you think you saw?
(Anybody have one of them "owned" emoticons laying around, I need one asap).
I'm not standing up for the 'Babel' here but i have personally witnessed legendary Race engineer/Team Manager (here in oz) "Steve Trinder" notice and comment on the fact that 'the bike was not slapping him on the ... as much into turn 1 now'.
The Rider was Judd Greedy now deceased -RIP mate, the track was QLD Raceway, the bike was a Supersport Gixxer 600 and he was next to me at the other end (turn 6) of the main straight. No telemetry or Money in this team at that time either
So I guess it depends on your skill and level of qualification.....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 24 2009, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not standing up for the 'Babel' here but i have personally witnessed legendary Race engineer/Team Manager (here in oz) "Steve Trinder" notice and comment on the fact that 'the bike was not slapping him on the ... as much into turn 1 now'.
The Rider was Judd Greedy now deceased -RIP mate, the track was QLD Raceway, the bike was a Supersport Gixxer 600 and he was next to me at the other end (turn 6) of the main straight. No telemetry or Money in this team at that time either
So I guess it depends on your skill and level of qualification.....
hmmm...for all we know Babel could very well be...
...nah! can't be him
The Rider was Judd Greedy now deceased -RIP mate, the track was QLD Raceway, the bike was a Supersport Gixxer 600 and he was next to me at the other end (turn 6) of the main straight. No telemetry or Money in this team at that time either
So I guess it depends on your skill and level of qualification.....
hmmm...for all we know Babel could very well be...
...nah! can't be him
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Babel, you might want to check your X-ray vision.
So would you like to reconsider what you think you saw?
(Anybody have one of them "owned" emoticons laying around, I need one asap).
That guy says a lot of things doesn't he? So far I trust my eyes before simplified/slanted "interviews":
Nicy Hayden:
"Like I say, fully leaned over, in the rain at Donington and you go wide open [on the throttle], I mean that's not exactly real racing."
To meet you halfway: No doubt there are places where you have to be carefull and can't whack it open. It kind of goes without saying as highsides on power are not 100% eliminated (only 90%.) But I'm just as certain that there are places where they can wack it open and I know that because I saw it, as simple as that. It might have been at very high rpms above the power top but it was still wacking it open. Nothing more, nothing less.
So would you like to reconsider what you think you saw?
(Anybody have one of them "owned" emoticons laying around, I need one asap).
That guy says a lot of things doesn't he? So far I trust my eyes before simplified/slanted "interviews":
Nicy Hayden:
"Like I say, fully leaned over, in the rain at Donington and you go wide open [on the throttle], I mean that's not exactly real racing."
To meet you halfway: No doubt there are places where you have to be carefull and can't whack it open. It kind of goes without saying as highsides on power are not 100% eliminated (only 90%.) But I'm just as certain that there are places where they can wack it open and I know that because I saw it, as simple as that. It might have been at very high rpms above the power top but it was still wacking it open. Nothing more, nothing less.
Didn't I just read a bit about Hayden claiming that they pinned the throttle in the rain around corners at Donington and that that was not right? Now he says not a chance. What is the reality?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jul 25 2009, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Didn't I just read a bit about Hayden claiming that they pinned the throttle in the rain around corners at Donington and that that was not right? Now he says not a chance. What is the reality?
In all fairness he didn't say "Whack it open" like I did, but at the same time, how can you make those statements align? I don't get it.
For anyone who care anymore, "whack it open" is the only way to describe it as it also the only way you can hope to see a GP rider giving full throttle in live view. Not to compare with a GP rider but looking at rookies racing superstock 600 it's not uncommon to be able to see them "whack it" open not only at 15 m distance but just as well on a couple of hundred meteres. You see it when the right arm pump up and down with a force so stong as to unstabilize the whole bike so that it start fishtailing for a few meteres until it stabilizes again just before the rookie are to put in the next gear
Just a thought: Arm pump stiffens the whole arm. It's possible that a starting arm pump make a Stoners movement on the throttle more visible then it normally would. Not that it try to get away from anyting beacuse it was NOT minor throttle adjustment I saw, but fast riders are usually smoth in every aspect of their riding and that arm pump would probably make stoner less smoth and easier to spot.
In all fairness he didn't say "Whack it open" like I did, but at the same time, how can you make those statements align? I don't get it.
For anyone who care anymore, "whack it open" is the only way to describe it as it also the only way you can hope to see a GP rider giving full throttle in live view. Not to compare with a GP rider but looking at rookies racing superstock 600 it's not uncommon to be able to see them "whack it" open not only at 15 m distance but just as well on a couple of hundred meteres. You see it when the right arm pump up and down with a force so stong as to unstabilize the whole bike so that it start fishtailing for a few meteres until it stabilizes again just before the rookie are to put in the next gear
Just a thought: Arm pump stiffens the whole arm. It's possible that a starting arm pump make a Stoners movement on the throttle more visible then it normally would. Not that it try to get away from anyting beacuse it was NOT minor throttle adjustment I saw, but fast riders are usually smoth in every aspect of their riding and that arm pump would probably make stoner less smoth and easier to spot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 23 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Amen Brother.
+1 big f^&ker dude.
+1 big f^&ker dude.
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 25 2009, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That guy says a lot of things doesn't he? So far I trust my eyes before simplified/slanted "interviews":
Nicy Hayden:
"Like I say, fully leaned over, in the rain at Donington and you go wide open [on the throttle], I mean that's not exactly real racing."
Some of you seem to be on the verge of calling Mr. Nicky a liar.
I'm sure it all depends on the engine mapping and TC settings.
Using too much TC in the dry kills you speed.
In the rain, vastly more TC is apparently required in order to stay upright and maintain grip. (I suspect that even if you could keep it upright, using less TC in the rain would make the bike skate around and you'd go nowhere.)
Nicy Hayden:
"Like I say, fully leaned over, in the rain at Donington and you go wide open [on the throttle], I mean that's not exactly real racing."
Some of you seem to be on the verge of calling Mr. Nicky a liar.
I'm sure it all depends on the engine mapping and TC settings.
Using too much TC in the dry kills you speed.
In the rain, vastly more TC is apparently required in order to stay upright and maintain grip. (I suspect that even if you could keep it upright, using less TC in the rain would make the bike skate around and you'd go nowhere.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Jul 25 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some of you seem to be on the verge of calling Mr. Nicky a liar.
I'm sure it all depends on the engine mapping and TC settings.
Using too much TC in the dry kills you speed.
In the rain, vastly more TC is apparently required in order to stay upright and maintain grip. (I suspect that even if you could keep it upright, using less TC in the rain would make the bike skate around and you'd go nowhere.)
And some claim we (rossi fans) are touchy
Relax dude. What I say is: that take ANYTHING you see but uncut video with a a large grain of salt.
And even then interviews are not the place for finer points. Rather generalisations and simplifications are on the order of the day. Therefore we often won't hear the whole truth, add to this that either the journalist or object might have an agenda and they make sure they get the massage out clear and focused without any confusing finer points.
I'm sure it all depends on the engine mapping and TC settings.
Using too much TC in the dry kills you speed.
In the rain, vastly more TC is apparently required in order to stay upright and maintain grip. (I suspect that even if you could keep it upright, using less TC in the rain would make the bike skate around and you'd go nowhere.)
And some claim we (rossi fans) are touchy
Relax dude. What I say is: that take ANYTHING you see but uncut video with a a large grain of salt.
And even then interviews are not the place for finer points. Rather generalisations and simplifications are on the order of the day. Therefore we often won't hear the whole truth, add to this that either the journalist or object might have an agenda and they make sure they get the massage out clear and focused without any confusing finer points.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 25 2009, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That guy says a lot of things doesn't he? So far I trust my eyes before simplified/slanted "interviews":
Nicy Hayden:
"Like I say, fully leaned over, in the rain at Donington and you go wide open [on the throttle], I mean that's not exactly real racing."
To meet you halfway: No doubt there are places where you have to be carefull and can't whack it open. It kind of goes without saying as highsides on power are not 100% eliminated (only 90%.) But I'm just as certain that there are places where they can wack it open and I know that because I saw it, as simple as that. It might have been at very high rpms above the power top but it was still wacking it open. Nothing more, nothing less.
Is/was Hayden talking about the Ducati system though or using observations to have a subtle (or not so dubtle) didg at other manufacturers systems?
Your premise is based on him commenting on Ducati systems, where nowehere does it mention that per se.
As has been argued, dissected, discussed, rebuffed and discussed some more, all systems are different and come into play in a different manner - thus maybe some work in the manner Nicky describes, maybe some don't.
EDIT: He also is not saying you 'crack it' but alluding to being on full throttle whilst leaned over in the wet, which could/will happen irrespective of throttle delivery (my reading of the comment)
Gaz
Nicy Hayden:
"Like I say, fully leaned over, in the rain at Donington and you go wide open [on the throttle], I mean that's not exactly real racing."
To meet you halfway: No doubt there are places where you have to be carefull and can't whack it open. It kind of goes without saying as highsides on power are not 100% eliminated (only 90%.) But I'm just as certain that there are places where they can wack it open and I know that because I saw it, as simple as that. It might have been at very high rpms above the power top but it was still wacking it open. Nothing more, nothing less.
Is/was Hayden talking about the Ducati system though or using observations to have a subtle (or not so dubtle) didg at other manufacturers systems?
Your premise is based on him commenting on Ducati systems, where nowehere does it mention that per se.
As has been argued, dissected, discussed, rebuffed and discussed some more, all systems are different and come into play in a different manner - thus maybe some work in the manner Nicky describes, maybe some don't.
EDIT: He also is not saying you 'crack it' but alluding to being on full throttle whilst leaned over in the wet, which could/will happen irrespective of throttle delivery (my reading of the comment)
Gaz
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 27 2009, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is/was Hayden talking about the Ducati system though or using observations to have a subtle (or not so dubtle) didg at other manufacturers systems?
Your premise is based on him commenting on Ducati systems, where nowehere does it mention that per se.
Maybe, however the direct reference to doing it a Donny in the wet and the term 'you' could be allued to others as well as his own. Which the 'Ducks Marinelli' system is pretty well known as being the best or very close to it.
But as they (Ducati) are showing, TC alone certainly doesn't win races.....(anymore???
I'm polishing my angling skills today!!)
Your premise is based on him commenting on Ducati systems, where nowehere does it mention that per se.
Maybe, however the direct reference to doing it a Donny in the wet and the term 'you' could be allued to others as well as his own. Which the 'Ducks Marinelli' system is pretty well known as being the best or very close to it.
But as they (Ducati) are showing, TC alone certainly doesn't win races.....(anymore???
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 01:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe, however the direct reference to doing it a Donny in the wet and the term 'you' could be allued to others as well as his own. Which the 'Ducks Marinelli' system is pretty well known as being the best or very close to it.
But as they (Ducati) are showing, TC alone certainly doesn't win races.....(anymore???
I'm polishing my angling skills today!!)
Actually you may want to search a bit on that as there were stories around 2 months ago that the Yamaha system is the most advanced in use in the MotoGP field (both manufacturers using MagnettiMarelli).
It was said at that time that the Yamaha system used around 2000 interruptions per lap to the upgraded Ducati system which now used 1000 interruptions per lap (up from 30-40 interruptions of the old system said to be preferred by CS - refer interview with Gibernau). But, the systems apparently were used differently in terms of impact as the Yamaha system was said to reduce fuel input and thus power that way, whereas the Ducati system was aid to ...... ignition which results in the popping noises often heard/reported.
As for your last point, throwing the ifsh back - thank you for that as you obviously agree that CS race wins are not the result of advanced electronics as so many claim.
Garry
But as they (Ducati) are showing, TC alone certainly doesn't win races.....(anymore???
Actually you may want to search a bit on that as there were stories around 2 months ago that the Yamaha system is the most advanced in use in the MotoGP field (both manufacturers using MagnettiMarelli).
It was said at that time that the Yamaha system used around 2000 interruptions per lap to the upgraded Ducati system which now used 1000 interruptions per lap (up from 30-40 interruptions of the old system said to be preferred by CS - refer interview with Gibernau). But, the systems apparently were used differently in terms of impact as the Yamaha system was said to reduce fuel input and thus power that way, whereas the Ducati system was aid to ...... ignition which results in the popping noises often heard/reported.
As for your last point, throwing the ifsh back - thank you for that as you obviously agree that CS race wins are not the result of advanced electronics as so many claim.
Garry
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 27 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually you may want to search a bit on that as there were stories around 2 months ago that the Yamaha system is the most advanced in use in the MotoGP field (both manufacturers using MagnettiMarelli).
It was said at that time that the Yamaha system used around 2000 interruptions per lap to the upgraded Ducati system which now used 1000 interruptions per lap (up from 30-40 interruptions of the old system said to be preferred by CS - refer interview with Gibernau). But, the systems apparently were used differently in terms of impact as the Yamaha system was said to reduce fuel input and thus power that way, whereas the Ducati system was aid to ...... ignition which results in the popping noises often heard/reported.
As for your last point, throwing the ifsh back - thank you for that as you obviously agree that CS race wins are not the result of advanced electronics as so many claim.
Garry
Anymore.........................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.............................................................................Oh no not again!!!
It was said at that time that the Yamaha system used around 2000 interruptions per lap to the upgraded Ducati system which now used 1000 interruptions per lap (up from 30-40 interruptions of the old system said to be preferred by CS - refer interview with Gibernau). But, the systems apparently were used differently in terms of impact as the Yamaha system was said to reduce fuel input and thus power that way, whereas the Ducati system was aid to ...... ignition which results in the popping noises often heard/reported.
As for your last point, throwing the ifsh back - thank you for that as you obviously agree that CS race wins are not the result of advanced electronics as so many claim.
Garry
Anymore.........................................................................
.................................................................................
.................................................................................
.............................................................................Oh no not again!!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 27 2009, 02:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Anymore.........................................................................
................................................................................
.
................................................................................
.
.............................................................................Oh no not again!!!
WTF?
You have lost me but hey, sometimes that ain't hard.
Seriously, read back and you will find an excellent TC thread - some fact, some fiction a lot of assumption as to who has the best, worst, most indifferent, who uses it most/least etc.
There is also much discussion in other places/forums - TC has been done to death. Nobody knows who actually hast he best/worst for certain - we as spectators can assume - and do, most often wrongly.
If you want to know all about TC - then hang on to you hat - you will be asleep in 5 minutes
EDIT:
I am actually glad to see the TC debate dieing down as people instead focus on the racing that is being offered this year and come to terms that TC is still out there and that will not change anytime soon.
Garry
................................................................................
.
................................................................................
.
.............................................................................Oh no not again!!!
WTF?
You have lost me but hey, sometimes that ain't hard.
Seriously, read back and you will find an excellent TC thread - some fact, some fiction a lot of assumption as to who has the best, worst, most indifferent, who uses it most/least etc.
There is also much discussion in other places/forums - TC has been done to death. Nobody knows who actually hast he best/worst for certain - we as spectators can assume - and do, most often wrongly.
If you want to know all about TC - then hang on to you hat - you will be asleep in 5 minutes
EDIT:
I am actually glad to see the TC debate dieing down as people instead focus on the racing that is being offered this year and come to terms that TC is still out there and that will not change anytime soon.
Garry
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 27 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It was said at that time that the Yamaha system used around 2000 interruptions per lap to the upgraded Ducati system which now used 1000 interruptions per lap (up from 30-40 interruptions of the old system said to be preferred by CS - refer interview with Gibernau). But, the systems apparently were used differently in terms of impact as the Yamaha system was said to reduce fuel input and thus power that way, whereas the Ducati system was aid to ...... ignition which results in the popping noises often heard/reported.
Garry
Sounds like it would be, if they approach things this differently, very difficult to prove which one works better to aid rider.....unless of course you are one of the top 5 riders in the world and got to ride both machines back to back.....so suggesting/speculation that the Yam's is better needs more solid evidence wouldn't you agree? Maybe an offical test between bikes with someone like Bayliss, just for us
using the gibbers interview, is not really solid proof as he may or may not be quoting the correct figures (from wherever he got them from-are these offical numbers available anywhere-I'm not sure-Pandoras Box opening now!) and he has only really (aside from last years GP8 factory test) ridden the second string Ducati and hasn't laid leathers on an M1(might be wrong here but certainly not recently)-ever.
So if Gibbers had just come from an offical test, riding both the duck and the yamaka, and spending all day on both, and then said the M1's system was better, I would believe that.
Garry
Sounds like it would be, if they approach things this differently, very difficult to prove which one works better to aid rider.....unless of course you are one of the top 5 riders in the world and got to ride both machines back to back.....so suggesting/speculation that the Yam's is better needs more solid evidence wouldn't you agree? Maybe an offical test between bikes with someone like Bayliss, just for us
using the gibbers interview, is not really solid proof as he may or may not be quoting the correct figures (from wherever he got them from-are these offical numbers available anywhere-I'm not sure-Pandoras Box opening now!) and he has only really (aside from last years GP8 factory test) ridden the second string Ducati and hasn't laid leathers on an M1(might be wrong here but certainly not recently)-ever.
So if Gibbers had just come from an offical test, riding both the duck and the yamaka, and spending all day on both, and then said the M1's system was better, I would believe that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 27 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It was said at that time that the Yamaha system used around 2000 interruptions per lap to the upgraded Ducati system which now used 1000 interruptions per lap (up from 30-40 interruptions of the old system said to be preferred by CS - refer interview with Gibernau). But, the systems apparently were used differently in terms of impact as the Yamaha system was said to reduce fuel input and thus power that way, whereas the Ducati system was aid to ...... ignition which results in the popping noises often heard/reported.
Garry
Sounds like it would be, if they approach things this differently, very difficult to prove which one works better to aid rider.....unless of course you are one of the top 5 riders in the world and got to ride both machines back to back.....so suggesting/speculation that the Yam's is better needs more solid evidence wouldn't you agree? Maybe an offical test between bikes with someone like Bayliss, just for us
using the gibbers interview, is not really solid proof as he may or may not be quoting the correct figures (from wherever he got them from-are these offical numbers available anywhere-I'm not sure-Pandoras Box opening now!) and he has only really (aside from last years GP8 factory test) ridden the second string Ducati and hasn't laid leathers on an M1(might be wrong here but certainly not recently)-ever.
So if Gibbers had just come from an offical test, riding both the duck and the yamaka, and spending all day on both, and then said the M1's system was better, I would believe that.
Garry
Sounds like it would be, if they approach things this differently, very difficult to prove which one works better to aid rider.....unless of course you are one of the top 5 riders in the world and got to ride both machines back to back.....so suggesting/speculation that the Yam's is better needs more solid evidence wouldn't you agree? Maybe an offical test between bikes with someone like Bayliss, just for us
using the gibbers interview, is not really solid proof as he may or may not be quoting the correct figures (from wherever he got them from-are these offical numbers available anywhere-I'm not sure-Pandoras Box opening now!) and he has only really (aside from last years GP8 factory test) ridden the second string Ducati and hasn't laid leathers on an M1(might be wrong here but certainly not recently)-ever.
So if Gibbers had just come from an offical test, riding both the duck and the yamaka, and spending all day on both, and then said the M1's system was better, I would believe that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 27 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It was said at that time that the Yamaha system used around 2000 interruptions per lap to the upgraded Ducati system which now used 1000 interruptions per lap (up from 30-40 interruptions of the old system said to be preferred by CS - refer interview with Gibernau). But, the systems apparently were used differently in terms of impact as the Yamaha system was said to reduce fuel input and thus power that way, whereas the Ducati system was aid to ...... ignition which results in the popping noises often heard/reported.
Garry
Sounds like it would be, if they approach things this differently, very difficult to prove which one works better to aid rider.....unless of course you are one of the top 5 riders in the world and got to ride both machines back to back.....so suggesting/speculation that the Yam's is better needs more solid evidence wouldn't you agree? Maybe an offical test between bikes with someone like Bayliss, just for us
using the gibbers interview, is not really solid proof as he may or may not be quoting the correct figures (from wherever he got them from-are these offical numbers available anywhere-I'm not sure-Pandoras Box opening now!) and he has only really (aside from last years GP8 factory test) ridden the second string Ducati and hasn't laid leathers on an M1(might be wrong here but certainly not recently)-ever.
So if Gibbers had just come from an offical test, riding both the duck and the yamaka, and spending all day on both, and then said the M1's system was better, I would believe that.
Garry
Sounds like it would be, if they approach things this differently, very difficult to prove which one works better to aid rider.....unless of course you are one of the top 5 riders in the world and got to ride both machines back to back.....so suggesting/speculation that the Yam's is better needs more solid evidence wouldn't you agree? Maybe an offical test between bikes with someone like Bayliss, just for us
using the gibbers interview, is not really solid proof as he may or may not be quoting the correct figures (from wherever he got them from-are these offical numbers available anywhere-I'm not sure-Pandoras Box opening now!) and he has only really (aside from last years GP8 factory test) ridden the second string Ducati and hasn't laid leathers on an M1(might be wrong here but certainly not recently)-ever.
So if Gibbers had just come from an offical test, riding both the duck and the yamaka, and spending all day on both, and then said the M1's system was better, I would believe that.
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