As for Dani's results, i agree to an extent, the Honda doesn't appear to have been a title worthy bike at all in the 800cc era, but a recent article with Livio Suppo about how perceptions change when a bike is ridden by more than one top rider has me being a little bit more reserved in that respect.
Don't forget the michelins were equaly to blame, not just the Honda. And as you know he was the top michelin rider for their (michelin) 2 seasons in the 800cc. As for Livio Suppo's view (I read that article), I don't quite agree with him. Yes the Honda is a great bike now but that's not because of Stoner's arrival. Last year after mid-season anyone could see that bike was already great, and Dani/Dovi weren't exactly the best pairing on the grid. It's simply the result of the good progress that Honda has being making. It now seems to be the bike to be on, but I predicted last year that Honda would be even stronger in 2011. Honda's form should be no surprise. If Stoner had never come to Honda the 2011 RCV would still be considered the best bike. No rocket science.
It's just that some individuals tend to be in the right place at the right time. Someone asked Doohan last year something about Casey's switch to Honda and he said "They lost their way there for a few years and, if anything, the bike looks like it's the bike to be on at the moment and it's only going to get better next year - he [Stoner] can see that also," Doohan said.
He didn't say: "yeah the Honda appears like it has been .... because they currently lack a top rider like Stoner to light a fire on their current star rider's ... and both put the bike where it should be".
Stoner's contract with Ducati expired just at the right time for him to move to a better/to the better ride.
The M1 was not the best bike as the result of Lorenzo/Rossi rivalry. In 2008 the bike was already considered the best and Lorenzo wasn't a threat to Rossi at all. Then in 2009 he had the same tires as Rossi (control tire era) and Yamaha made another good step in the bike (specially with electronics) which made their bike dominant at that point because while they took a step forward, Ducati took a step backwards and Honda remained stagnant/lost. Then it's easy for people like Suppo to say that Yamaha's "perceived" best bike is the result of having two top teamates on the bike. Yamaha/Burgess/Rossi simply did a better job than the other manufacturers. It's that simple.
Answer this. Swap VR/JL with CS/NH in 2009. Do you think Rossi/Lorenzo rivalry would make the 2009 Duke appear to be the "best bike"? I reckon Stoner would romp to the title on the Yamaha and it would be considered the best bike. Same with Dani with Rossi/Lor on the 2009 Honda.
Additionally there is the argument that Dani has been the lead rider in that team for 4 years and has failed to force a decent direction out of them, and failed to develop the bike into something he needs.
Yes I'm aware of that common (and old) armchairs' argument. The funny thing is Pedrosa until recently had been showing his frustations regarding HRC NOT listening at all to his requests/needs. He said up till 2010 he asked for A he got C. Or sometimes he asked for a specific change on the chassis for the next test and when he was to test it, it was the exact same chassis as before, they didn't touch it.
Then in 2009 he was so fed up with Honda he threatened to leave (and publicly said the only reason he didn't leave was because there was no vacancy at Yamaha) and with Honda so lost as they were and as they started to realise that their "way" was not working, they finally started to listen to the riders instead. So, reading coments that he "cannot develop a bike" I find it ironic that when he finally gets listened the bike turns into a rocket.
On the other hand, Casey has just stepped off of the Ducati and hindsight has shown us that the bike was much less capable than most of us had figured and that his inconsistency is likely to be a reult of pushing to be at the front on a bike that wasn't really up to it. But that is what it comes down to really, i don't disagree with your line of reasoning. But i feel that Casey is in the same scenario but to a greater extreme, and upon both of them getting a class leading bike capable of being ridden consistently at the front, my money is on the Australian.
You must admit that in 2007 he had a tire/power advantage. There was nothing the other manufacturers could do about Stoner/Ducati/bridgestone combo. A year later the bike was still fast - on his hands - without going on the limit all the time, problem is Casey doesn't know how to ride without going on the edge/on the limit, and he hasn't done much better (on the final standings) than Pedrosa on a injury plagued season.
The argument that Stoner's inconsistency is the result of pushing on a bike that isn't up to it is more correct when you talk about 2009 and 2010 seasons, when he was beaten by the spaniard. With both on same equipment my opinion is that it can swing either way (with both injury free, that is). Unlike some I don't believe for a second he will blow him away. For the championship I give advantage to Stoner (who by the way I'm also a fan of) because he's not injury-prone, unlike his teammate. Hey they're now on the same bike and we're less than 3 weeks for the first race so let's find out. I think it will be an exiting battle!
It's interesting, i watched an old tape recently of the South Africa 2004 250cc race. On the Eurosport coverage Julian Ryder boldly said that the only thing that will stop Dani being motogp world champion is his physical attributes. I believe there is a lot of truth in that, i think overal his size is a disadvantage, but more than anything else i think his fragility when falling off makes things very difficult for him. He is brave and has shown on many occasions that he can grit his teeth and bare it, but he still isn't quick enough when he's not fully healthy.
But Tom, Pedro is not fully healthy 80% of the time! How can you expect him to be fighting for the lead imediately after coming from injury when his injuries are usualy much worse than other riders? Oh and I would like to point out Rossi's struggles last year with his injuries. Or Lorenzo in 2008. De Puniet 2010 (he was nowere after his injury for the rest of the year). Ayoama 2010, etc, etc. We have to take into account the level of the injury before criticising a rider. If anything my respect for Pedrosa only grew after all the broken bones, the number of serious injuries he had to overcome and he keeps going, he allways bounces back. He doesn't seem to have lost any speed despite that. As you say he is a very brave man but the question is: how much more beating his body is able to take?
I am not so sure, i think Lorenzo has become the better rider. It is worth remebering that Dani has beaten Rossi in 2 premier class seasons, something that no other rider has done (if i remember rightly), but it's never been for first place.
No doubt that Lorenzo is now a very confident (and arrogant) rider, and wants everyone to bow to him like if he was a king. He really became very confident and effective riding the easy silky smooth M1, no doubt about that. That's usualy the case when you have a class leading bike for much or all of your carreer. Few riders have that luxury. Right place at the right time. That said, it would be interesting to see what would've happened had Dani mounted on the Yamaha instead and Lorenzo on the Honda.
As for Pedrosa beating Rossi in 2 premier class seasons but never for first place, well it's a good example of NOT be in the right place at the right time, something that has been the norm for Pedrosa in the big class.
