MotoGP: Aragón RACE

I just love all this, I have been pissing myself, yes MM has a history, but this was the smallest of contact, the same tiny contact that they all do and no one complains about or notices, but because this took out a sensor, and lets be honest even Ducati have two to be on the safe side, if that sensor wire had not been damaged Danny would have been fine, no one would have said a word, sometimes lessons get learnt the hard way and Honda have learnt that their system was flawed, the wire was vulnerable, they need two sensors, and if this happens again the system should switch to limp mode and not full power without traction control, not even a light comes on to tell the rider. even Ducati have changed their system after Ben got pitched a few weeks ago, but it is nice to see the murder mark squad out in force making complete fools of themselves , made me LOL.


 


EDIT,  As I am waiting for my esteemed and respected friend Jumkie, who is also president of the murder mark squad to come on and write a whole page on why I have brain damage for not seeing his way, I will add this, I have had a look back at some old vids with Jums hero in, Revvin Kevin, the moves he pulled make MM look like the cleanest guy in the world, Jum we have had follow my leader and don't overtake me unless I give you a mile wide gap for quite a few years now, MM is just a throw back to the golden days of 500s, he reminds me a lot of Kevin and I for one am happy he does, he pushes the bike to the absolute limit to try and win, sometimes he makes mistakes and sometimes it bites him in the ..., he is just a fast talented kid who wants to win, just like Kevin was.

[quote name="thedeal" post="362138" timestamp="1380570146"]
I just love all this, I have been pissing myself, yes MM has a history, but this was the smallest of contact, the same tiny contact that they all do and no one complains about or notices, but because this took out a sensor, and lets be honest even Ducati have two to be on the safe side, if that sensor wire had not been damaged Danny would have been fine, no one would have said a word, sometimes lessons get learnt the hard way and Honda have learnt that their system was flawed, the wire was vulnerable, they need two sensors, andif this happens again the system should switch to limp mode and not full power without traction control, not even a light comes on to tell the rider. even Ducati have changed their system after Ben got pitched a few weeks ago, but it is nice to see the murder mark squad out in force making complete fools of themselves , made me LOL.[/quote]


I'm laughing too. At you mainly, and your inability to see the cause and effect, and your insistence in towing the line that it was Honda's fault for supposedly a flawed design. Perhaps as you suggest the RCV should be modeled after the extremely successful DucatiGP, hahahaha. You guys have created all manner of tangents to justify Marc's mistakes at causing injury to others. You want to argue how much mechanical pressure must be applied to another rider in the form of contact to assign some subjective culpability as if this is relevant, the bottom line is that the contact made was enuf and was a result of a mistake which ultimately led not only to the injury of another rider (Pedro) but a dangerous situation for the other riders who had to come past the machine lying on the hot track.

One of the things I prefer in MotoGP is, unlike F1 when there's a little contact, the stewards don't go shitnuts ballistic with penalties, and it's somewhat accepted. ...and then I read comments here.


 


The only difference IMO between this contact and the move J-Lo pulled on Marky Mark at Silverstone was that a cable was accidently knocked out. It could've just as easily happened in Silverstone. Although if it had, there would've probably been the opposite response, as in the general viewing public and the commentators would hate Lorenzo for ruining Mark's race, and Powerslide would have no beef with it whatsoever.


 


Now I don't know Marquez's history, and to be honest, I don't personally find it relevant. I don't believe the kid's intentionally trying to take anyone out. Maybe getting that close to your own teammate might be a bad idea, but if nothing else it was ballsy and entertaining, same as the SIlverstone move. It just unfortunately resulted in Dani's race being ruined. Now I'll probably get equal hate from all sides as I don't think it's Marquez's fault. He was just pushing hard to overtake, I don't believe he yanked the cable. I also don't blame Honda, they weren't to know how precarious that cable is (although if they don't rethink and add a backup for future races I will blame them in future)


 


.... happens in racing.

Jumkie

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I'm laughing too.  At you mainly, and your inability to see the cause and effect, and your instance in towing the line that its was Honda's fault for supposedly a flawed design.  Perhaps as you suggest the RCV should be modeled after the DucatiGP, hahahaha.  You guys have created all manner of tangents to justify Marc's mistakes at causing injury to others. You want to argue how much mechanical pressure must be applied to another rider in the form of contact as if this is relevant, the bottom line is that the contact made was a result of a mistake which ultimately led not only to the injury of another rider (Pedro) but a dangerous situation for the other riders who had to come past the machine lying on the hot track.

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The contact made was no worse than many made by Casey, Rossi or every one else, it was a small mistake, everyone overshoots or misses breaking point, this happens a lot of riders all the time, but because it was MM we need to form a lynch mob, get a grip.

14X

3621411380572340

One of the things I prefer in MotoGP is, unlike F1 when there's a little contact, the stewards don't go shitnuts ballistic with penalties, and it's somewhat accepted. ...and then I read comments here.


 


The only difference IMO between this contact and the move J-Lo pulled on Marky Mark at Silverstone was that a cable was accidently knocked out. It could've just as easily happened in Silverstone. Although if it had, there would've probably been the opposite response, as in the general viewing public and the commentators would hate Lorenzo for ruining Mark's race, and Powerslide would have no beef with it whatsoever.


 


Now I don't know Marquez's history, and to be honest, I don't personally find it relevant. I don't believe the kid's intentionally trying to take anyone out. Maybe getting that close to your own teammate might be a bad idea, but if nothing else it was ballsy and entertaining, same as the SIlverstone move. It just unfortunately resulted in Dani's race being ruined. Now I'll probably get equal hate from all sides as I don't think it's Marquez's fault. He was just pushing hard to overtake, I don't believe he yanked the cable. I also don't blame Honda, they weren't to know how precarious that cable is (although if they don't rethink and add a backup for future races I will blame them in future)


 


.... happens in racing.

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Amen for the voice of reason.

thedeal said:

The contact made was no worse than many made by Casey, Rossi or every one else, it was a small mistake, everyone overshoots or misses breaking point, this happens a lot of riders all the time, but because it was MM we need to form a lynch mob,get a grip.

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Deal, I know u are more insightful about contact on the track than what u are expressing and suggesting above man. The "contact" often made for example in moto2 this weekend is NOT of the same variety. When two riders are racing close and hard, either is aware of their presence and can react accordingly (most of the time). Avoiding contact being the aim but sometimes inadvertently made. Here we had a situation where Pedro was hit from behind, having absolutely no awareness to adjust or take evasive action.

So then u must want to argue that a certain amount of pressure when making contact is benign. Tell me then, how many Newtons of pressure crosses the line for culpability. Have fun trying to make this ludicrous case.

Jumkie

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Deal, I know u are more insightful about contact on the track than what u are expressing and suggesting above man. The "contact" often made for example in moto2 this weekend is NOT of the same variety. When two riders are racing close and hard, either is aware of their presence and can react accordingly (most of the time). Avoiding contact being the aim but sometimes inadvertently made. Here we had a situation where Pedro was hit from behind, having absolutely no awareness to adjust or take evasive action. So then u must want to argue that a certain amount of pressure when making contact is benign. Tell me then, how many Newtons of pressure crosses the line for culpability. Have fun trying to make this ludicrous case.

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Jum as I stated earlier it was a simple mistake, you and the lynch mob are making sound like he got a gun out and shot him, now as usual you only reply to the parts that can still be fitted into your personal view, so go back and reread my first post and then go on youtube and then come back on and tell me how clean MM is in comparison to your hero Kevin.

Bring back the grass and gravel off track. Do away with TC.

Hey Jum, strange that I cant find anything on here from you that says Nicky was dangerous when he hit Dovi and forced him of track. infact all I have found is you saying Ducati are out of order for telling Nicky not to race so close to Dovi.

thedeal said:

Hey Jum, strange that I cant find anything on here from you that says Nicky was dangerous when he hit Dovi and forced him of track. infact all I have found is you saying Ducati are out of order for telling Nicky not to raceso close toDovi.

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Your debate tactic has become to simply ignore what is written. Im sorry but my impression is u probably dont have the capacity to argue your points logically. I'll write it again for u. Nicky's move was dangerous (though it appears u are unaware of the difference to hitting a rider from behind). Its not typical of his racing, it is typical of Marc's which makes him a dangerous rider. The variety of contact while racing for position is not of the same variety as completely missing ur brake marker, hiting the lead rider's rear, going off track in the process and as a result of the contact (irrespective of magnitude) cause a crash. Im trying not to insult your intelligence, though I think you're doing a good job of it on your own.

Jumkie

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Your debate tactic has become to simply ignore what is written. Im sorry but my impression is u probably dont have the capacity to argue your points logically. I'll write it again for u. Nicky's move was dangerous (though it appears u are unaware of the difference to hitting a rider from behind). Its not typical of his racing, it is typical of Marc's which makes him a dangerous rider. The variety of contact while racing for position is not of the same variety as completely missing ur brake marker, hiting the lead rider's rear, going off track in the process and as a result of the contact (irrespective of magnitude) cause a crash. Im trying not to insult your intelligence, though I think you're doing a good job of it on your own.

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More personal insults from the master of debate, and you talk to me about intellectual capacity,  funny how you ripped into MM for hitting Jorge in the side (pages of your usual stuff) but failed to do the same when your hero Nicky hit Dovi in the same fashion, Jum your hypocrisy knows no bounds. 

Jumkie

3621491380576468

Your debate tactic has become to simply ignore what is written. Im sorry but my impression is u probably dont have the capacity to argue your points logically. I'll write it again for u. Nicky's move was dangerous. Its not typical it his racing, it is typical of Marc's. The variety of contact while racing for position is not of the same variety as completely missing ur brake marker, hiting the lead rider's rear, going off track in the process and as a result of the contact (irrespective of magnitude) cause a crash. Im trying not to insult your intelligence, though I think your doing a good job of it on your own.

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The thing with fairing bashing etc in the heat of an on track duel is an element of mutual trust,  that certain limits are observed, which I think the likes of Schwantz and Rainey had. Valentino Rossi was quite selective concerning whom he engaged in combat, and  was less keen on such close quarter racing with Tony Elias for instance than he was with Casey Stoner.


 


The thing with MM imo is that he seems prepared to run a higher risk than most of taking his opponent out.  He doesn't need to do this, he is good enough and on a good enough bike for this not to be required. 

thedeal

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More personal insults from the master of debate, and you talk to me about intellectual capacity,  funny how you ripped into MM for hitting Jorge in the side (pages of your usual stuff) but failed to do the same when your hero Nicky hit Dovi in the same fashion, Jum your hypocrisy knows no bounds. 

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Please point out Nicky's history of taking riders out/putting them in hospital in unnecessary practice incidents.

michaelm

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Please point out Nicky's history of taking riders out/putting them in hospital in unnecessary practice incidents.

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I did not say he has a history of this, please show where I did, I was saying Jumkie is a hypocrite for lambasting MM for hitting Jorge in the side and not saying the same about Nicky when he did the same to Dovi.

thedeal said:

I did not say he has a history of this, please show where I did,I was saying Jumkie is a hypocrite for lambasting MM for hitting Jorge in the side and not saying the same about Nicky when he did the same to Dovi.

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Again u miss the point. How can we debate this if u miss the most basic fundamentals? Marc has a well deserved reputation for dangerous tactics causing injury Nicky does not. Therefore (as is the case with simple logic) there is no need to lambaste Nicky as its not typical whereas in Marc's case it is. Now notice the difference in outcome. Nicky was in fact reprimanded by his employer, on the other hand, its been argued Marc's would not deserve, nor would HRC engage in such 'stifling'. Or as Krops more colorfully put it: ".... the adults in the room!"

14X

3621411380572340

One of the things I prefer in MotoGP is, unlike F1 when there's a little contact, the stewards don't go shitnuts ballistic with penalties, and it's somewhat accepted. ...and then I read comments here.


 


The only difference IMO between this contact and the move J-Lo pulled on Marky Mark at Silverstone was that a cable was accidently knocked out. It could've just as easily happened in Silverstone. Although if it had, there would've probably been the opposite response, as in the general viewing public and the commentators would hate Lorenzo for ruining Mark's race, and Powerslide would have no beef with it whatsoever.


 


Now I don't know Marquez's history, and to be honest, I don't personally find it relevant. I don't believe the kid's intentionally trying to take anyone out. Maybe getting that close to your own teammate might be a bad idea, but if nothing else it was ballsy and entertaining, same as the SIlverstone move. It just unfortunately resulted in Dani's race being ruined. Now I'll probably get equal hate from all sides as I don't think it's Marquez's fault. He was just pushing hard to overtake, I don't believe he yanked the cable. I also don't blame Honda, they weren't to know how precarious that cable is (although if they don't rethink and add a backup for future races I will blame them in future)


 


.... happens in racing.

Click to expand...

14X

3621411380572340

One of the things I prefer in MotoGP is, unlike F1 when there's a little contact, the stewards don't go shitnuts ballistic with penalties, and it's somewhat accepted. ...and then I read comments here.


 


The only difference IMO between this contact and the move J-Lo pulled on Marky Mark at Silverstone was that a cable was accidently knocked out. It could've just as easily happened in Silverstone. Although if it had, there would've probably been the opposite response, as in the general viewing public and the commentators would hate Lorenzo for ruining Mark's race, and Powerslide would have no beef with it whatsoever.


 


Now I don't know Marquez's history, and to be honest, I don't personally find it relevant. I don't believe the kid's intentionally trying to take anyone out. Maybe getting that close to your own teammate might be a bad idea, but if nothing else it was ballsy and entertaining, same as the SIlverstone move. It just unfortunately resulted in Dani's race being ruined. Now I'll probably get equal hate from all sides as I don't think it's Marquez's fault. He was just pushing hard to overtake, I don't believe he yanked the cable. I also don't blame Honda, they weren't to know how precarious that cable is (although if they don't rethink and add a backup for future races I will blame them in future)


 


.... happens in racing.

Click to expand...

I do blame Honda, partly for cable positioning and partly for the lack of proper FMEA anaysis. 


 


The system "design" that causes TC to be turned off when the wheel speed sensor is lost, the FMEA on that was done very poorly.  From my experience in Aerospace and Automotive, I'd have designed it to turn TC up ("TC"  without a rear wheel speed sensor would simply cut the power available, possibly quite dramatically.), then have a light on the dash to inform the rider, then have a rider override control to allow the rider to turn the TC off.  It's crazy for HRC to have not considered this failure mode, regardless of what causes the sensor input to fail.   Even Ducrapi have two sensors, one either side of the swing arm.


It does show (again) that TC allows the riders to open the throttle too hard/fast for the track conditions/corner angle without consequences.  Ban this level of TC IMHO, not Marques.

Damn, it's going to be a long ....... two weeks till the next race.

Fascinating stuff all! My first thought is this debate really has little merit other than mental masturbation as there is no clear definition of acceptable contact. In all of motorcycle racing history this has been left to the organizing body to decide on an ad hoc basis. There is no right answer... just a flavour of the week!


Second thought. Having had ample opportunity to ride fast and in anger with others there is definitely a hierarchy of others you feel comfortable riding a ....'s hair away from...

Dibble... Fracking phone!