MotoGP: Aragón RACE

thedeal

3625591380963904

Stiefel, your jousting comments have no relevance. jousting was a full contact sport.


 


I was at Donnington in 93, no one was calling for Doohan to be punished, and there was no talk of it in the press at the time, it was considered a mistake.


 


The reason I brought race into it, is because our friend Jumkie is the instigator of most of the Mark is out of order rubbish, and as we all know he says MM will not be punished because he is Spanish and Dorna is Spanish etc.

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Mick Doohan being hypocritical doesn't change the argument, nor does it if I am. I recognise everyone makes mistakes, unnecessary and pointless ones I find more objectionable. I don't remember this incident although my memory is mostly unusually good, it was somewhat fraught watching him race then and I probably concentrated on Schwantz and Rainey more. I certainly watched his 2 return races at the end of 1992 when he quite likely shouldn't have been racing, and unfortunately watched Wayne Rainey's crash live in 1993.


 


You have made a valid point about my selective memory, but the circumstances still have fairly obvious differences even from the brief footage you posted, which I can point out if you really want me to.

thedeal

3625341380931678

Yes I have been watching since the 70s, you are missing the point, Kevin was so on the edge he pitched it down the road at an alarming rate, how no one was killed by that flying Suzuki is a miracle, now do you get it? riders who are prepared to ride on the edge make mistakes, and while watching Kevin, Randy and especially Wayne Gardener, we marvelled at this on the edge bravery, we didn't shout and scream and call for them to be banned if they touched another rider during a fight, and this is the point, MM only touched Danny, he did not take him out, if the sensor had not been damaged this thread would not exist, it was a mistake by a rider trying very hard, if this is no longer excepted then GP racing as we knew it is well and truly dead.

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Word!

Arrabbiata1

3625441380959451

Eastern Creek?

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Is perhaps (early 90s) one of the best examples why MM pulling these off track lunges would/should have resulted in immediate recompense. These run offs, there for safety, should also involve a position penalty as they are clearly being misused to game their purpose. Stoner spoke specifically to this once, saying riders were effectively using it as extra track where none actually existed and with it taking greater risk and at times gaining advantage, for the same reason a qual lap is disallowed if a rider goes outside the white line. Why its now allowed in the race is clearly an oversight shrewdly being exploited by MM. Much like this ........ penalty points system that decidedly allows a number of fouls to go unpunished.


 

stiefel

3625541380963380

Doohan was not Spanish and the Spanish didn't dominate the sport.Why do you reference nationality? I don't think it has been brought up at all, certainly not by michaelm?

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Because his argument has been consistently weak, and its an attempt to pad it. Ironically he has been bitching that this theme is often repeated in all threads and he is supposedly tired of it. Yet he keeps brining it up. Poor guy has no concept of favortism and just cant imagine it being employed in the real world. Truth is, had they penalized the kid in Jerez where in fact penalty was warranted, there might have been a slight possibility this lunge wouldnt have happened, assuming he would have been able to put the lesson into practice. Sidenote, what i find hilarious is this instance on rationalizing that because the contact was not of the torpedo variety that the evasive action was an example of superb control, this of course shelving the fact this was simply mitigating a mistake in progress. Stellar reasoning. Also, poor Deal has relegated himself in attempting to rubbish Schwantz to make some uninsightful correlation, because in his mind crashing is all the same.


 


Those in support of no penalty being issued have carefully crafted their argument, focusing attention to element of happenstance, in addition to the contact being deemed not very blunt (as if there is some special threshold in magnitude of contact). Many of which would also deem the contact made on Lorenzo at Jerez of the not blunt enough variety as well. If either of these two incidents are given isolated scrutiny, then the Jerez incident would set the precedent. Ironically if the kid is issued two penalty points and is made to start from the back, i can hardly see how "safety" would be served by making a decidedly unsafe condition. But then again im wholeheartedly convinced, given Dorna's intrusion of Race Direction that any decision, not being independent of political influence, would not offer a safety conscious first sanction.


Incidentally what are the bookies predicting?  Mine is that they will make him start from the back: another iconic imagine made as he weaves toward the front (MotoGP being a place where all bikes are equal it will look nothing different than when he did it in Moto2) and he will finish top five.  Win win situation.  The buzz it will generate will be fantastic.  No actual threat to his championship, increasing the interest for the rest of the rounds, with the added affect that he has finally been slapped on the wrist for all his detractors to see,  something all will be made to look at as exhibit A: nobody is above sanction; and of course the rolling informercial for everybody to go out and buy that 93 t-shirt.  Entertainment executives would never make such decision, would they?  Everybody wins.

Jumkie

3625981381003245

Because his argument has been consistently weak, and its an attempt to pad it. Ironically he has been bitching that this theme is often repeated in all threads and he is supposedly tired of it. Yet he keeps brining it up. Poor guy has no concept of favortism and just cant imagine it being employed in the real world. Truth is, had they penalized the kid in Jerez where in fact penalty was warranted, there might have been a slight possibility this lunge wouldnt have happened, assuming he would have been able to put the lesson into practice. Sidenote, what i find hilarious is this instance on rationalizing that because the contact was not of the torpedo variety that the evasive action was an example of superb control, this of course shelving the fact this was simply mitigating a mistake in progress. Stellar reasoning. Also, poor Deal has relegated himself in attempting to rubbish Schwantz to make some uninsightful correlation, because in his mind crashing is all the same.

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Really Jum? it is you who constantly says it is all the fault of the Spanish, I have never rubbished Kevin, I used his on the edge skill level as a link to MM, and I have never said MM missed Danny with his immense skill, if you have to make stuff up to defend your corner this is the end, so I will now become one of the ever growing number of people brow beaten of this forum by you, you sir are a bully and a liar. good bye all.

thedeal

3625991381004821

Really Jum? it is you who constantly says it is all the fault of the Spanish, I have never rubbished Kevin, I used his on the edge skill level as a link to MM, and I have never said MM missed Danny with his immense skill, if you have to make stuff up to defend your corner this is the end, so I will now become one of the ever growing number of people brow beaten of this forum by you, you sir are a bully and a liar. good bye all.

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Don't leave...again.


 


Look dude, I thought we had got past this and you had already grown some skin.  Don't take .... I say to heart.  First of all, we are talking about stuff that is infinitely of zero importance to anybody of consequence.  We are debating .... for the sake of it, nothing more.  Get over it fella.  (Sidenote, I'm laughing right now because the guys I used to fight with are now people I admire to no end, so you have hope, albeit, slim).


 


 


What am I making up?  You are attempting to correlate KS to MM as both being of the same ilk.  No sir.  Not at all, first off, KS competed on a ...... Suzuki, MM is competing on the top machine of the sport and therefore has a fairly better chance at moving forward within the race.  Second, MM has history of major brain fades, therefore he rightfully has a reputation of being dangerous--which your are attempted to revise.  Third, KS, though he crashed a lot, its a false comparison to correlate to the skirmishes with riders, which were buffered by his rivals who dealt back in mutual combat.  The Jrez torpedo and the braking mistake causing contact at Aragon can hardly be counted as mutual combat.  And fourth, and fifth, and sixth...  There are some correlations that we could draw between KS and MM, but the ones you are attempting are a bit of a stretch.  These are the correlations I would make, both are spectacular, both rode to the limits of their particular machine, both were loved for their aggression.