Moto GP rider's style

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Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
14
By the way this is my first post!It would be nice to meet all the cool people here.Here's a little something from me:

Probably the most of the guys who are a bit interested in moto gp and motosports in general have wondered what do moto gp riders tend to do with stuff like..weight distribution.throttle control,race strategy,race phylosophy,sliding etc.I have wondered a lot about this and through my years of watching GP I have made several conclusions.

In this thread I am gonna talk about this about each rider in particular.

Who other to start with than one of the best sportsmen in the world-Valentino Rossi:
Well what else to say rather than he's a living legend...Vale was brought up with racing.It's in his blood.However he has done a lot on his riding style when he went to Yamaha.Most of that work was in order to make a bike good enough to win.So far so good but how does he win???Well..he has the whole race under strict control most of the time.Valentino might not always be the best guy in a single lap...but he always runs the pace he can qualify at and that's Valentino biggest danger,I mean he's just so so so strong in the race.He is the master of the bike set up and probably has the best connection between he himself and the machine.In some interviews he says that he believes in the unique energy of the bike.In 2004 and 2005 we saw a new Vale-a guy struggling for the best set up.

Eventually most of the times he had it mainly because he's feeling of the bike and the incredible connection between him and he's cheif race engineer Jeremy Burgis.Now Vale has ivolved..right now if you ask me there are only a few things that can stop Vale from winning:
-Struggles with set up and doesn't have the pace-very unlikely to happen
-he's in the middle or back of a group of Hondas and Ducs.That's Vale's worst fear.This is what makes him use his tires-going past them(as we saw in Sachsenring in 2004 when Biaggi won).I mean he get on Honda say...on the brakes but then he has to open gas hard and early in order to stay with the group.This cooks his tires.That's why we always see Vale trying to pass the group of bikes infront of him as fast as he can in the beginning of the race-the last time we saw this was of course the last two races-Mugello and the Catalan Grand Prix.

So..if he's in the group of Hondas for a long time he just runs a too high pace-too late braking and too early acceleration.Both of these make him use his tires and of course-make the bike look rather unstable.Actually after say..Sachsenring 2004 I was really angry at all the people who would say that Rossi's bike was far unstable-the thing just ran a faster pace than it was designed to run.
-suffering a crash-not very likely but...always very very very possible indeed.I rember that the last true great champion before Rossi-Mich Doohan,would crash at least 3 times a season.Over the corse of his outstanding career he had an incredible 5 consecutive titles but meanwhile-over 100 crashes.And seeing Rossi who has been down like 5 or 6 times during a race I think it is just incredible!However on the Yamaha things are a little bit different because he's in a search for his personal limit and the limit of the bike.As Mick Doohan once said"Winning it is all about and getting the most out of my self and out of the motorcycle.".Vale just rides the M1 faster than it was designed to go-so near its limits that he actually had to crash 2 times last season.However this year he has a little bit more confidence and selfrespect with the bike and knows what the thing can do.

Vale is the most sensational,marketable and genious rider of his time.He just never stops astonishing me..I rember the 2004 Philip Island Grand Prix when Sete was leading it..Rossi wanted to win the title sooo bad..and he needed just a 2nd place for it.However he was just right at the back of Sete on the last lap and he did not doubt for a second to risk both his title and his life in a couple of manuevers and passes on the last lap just to be victorious.I really respect that.This story leads me to the reason why Vale won the last few races-well very simple-his style is a little bit decieving.He just doesn't ride hard.He just gets to the back of the leading rider and stays with him in his pace.If you watch the races carefully you notice that he tends to take a little bit wider lines going into the corner-that is because he protects his tires' life by doing this.He like any other Moto Grand Prix rider must be a master of the centrifugal force and by taking a wider line he decreases that force and doesn't slide his tires that much.His style is just decieving-when he's behind the leader-takes those a little bit wider lines,brakes just a little bit early,doesn't accelerate that early and he just all he needs to stay in a reasonalble gap between him and leader.Then the time comes-last lap or like 2 or 3 laps to go and bannnnnng forget about all the early braking etc-and just when he needs to-he sets very very very often the fastest lap of the Grand Prix.The guys in 2nd is like-WTF??Very genious indeed ,don't you think so?

Well that was a bit much for Vale let's take a look at his fellow riders...first let's start with his teammate Collin Edwards.
Collin or the texas tornado as he is known to most people is a very very skilled rider indeed.When he's in the mood,when he has the right set up..almost nobody can't stop him.The problem is that this just ain't happen that often.Most of time he's ewither struggling with bike set up or cooked tires or something like it.He misses pure speed and pace.I really hated in Le Man this year when he was up with the leaders and eventually just couldn't keep up with the pace they were running and got "only"(relatively speaking) third.He could have been on the top step of the podium though.

As a rider Collin has a little bit of a disadvantage-he's height and his weight.He is like 1,80 meters(I dunno how much is that in the US metric system for which I apology-but he's like a head over Valentino).And very interesting is the fact that he keeps a large amount of that weight and body towards the fron end of the motorcycle.In theory this means that he cooks his front tires a bit more,has a lot of weight concentrated on the front forks-imagine the stress the tiny lil conctact surface of the tire has to take!!I think he's a very very very likely rider to loose the front going into a corner.Also so much weight on the front means a relatively loose rear which means a lot of back end slide.I think all this is not a disadvantage of his-in fact just the opposite-it shows us all how experienced and skillfull rider the Texas Tornado is.

Now that will be enough for the Yamahas for now.Let's moove on the Repsol Honda team-probably the team with the best support from the factory and with the best finances.This is the team most riders want to go to(excluding Vale lol).Most of the time they have the best bike -it's just that most riders fail to show its real limit and potential.Vale did not when he used to ride the RC 211 V,Mick did it with the mighty old NSR 500...when I think neither Biaggi,nor Nicky nor Alex(who used to ride the factory Honda last year) have done this.But let's do a quick check at the riders.

And lets start with the Roman Emperor ..the man from Italy-Maximiliano Biaggi(that is his full name by the way).He's a man who'd whine like both the sun and stars in the 250 class but when he moved the the King's things got a little bit different.Even though he showed incredible talent and relationship with the bike...just never ever has he been consistant enough to get the world championship.There is one thing I disrespect of Max-in 2002 he said"I need a Honda to win",in 2003 when he got a Honda he said "I need a factory Honda to win"Now he gots it and he does nothing...!!Where is he in the championship points??Where is he in the race??Why didn't he fight with is true power at Mugello??Why?Well I will ask Max if I meet him one day.(hope so lol)This season all kinds of misterious problems have just be going all around him..bike set up tires suspension..almost damn everything!let's just hope he'll be alright next season.

As far for his track performance-well when the sunshine is perfect and whn Max is in the mood-no one can touch him-as we saw in Motegi 2003 for example.One of the best races I've seen in terms of lap consistancy(even though rossi did a mistake which may have costed him the win at the Japanese Grand Prix).I think Max does a great job controling the sliding but he just sometimes struggles with the set up-especially this season on the factory RC 211 V.I am possitive we will seen at least one victory of Max this year but everything has to be perfect for him!That's his problem.Things are just too rarely perfect for him to win.

And let us not forget that maybe Max is one of the biggest rivals of Vale-remeber Catalunya 2001 when Rossi showed him a finger after Biaggi trying to push him out of the race track and risking his life?Well that's why I really fancy watching the battle between those two lol

And after Max let's moove on to his teammate Nicky Hayden-the AMA Superbike champion.He's very good for his age and experience in the Moto Grand Prix series but however-he is not great.I think he is still looking for more confidence while having 250 horses underneath him.He's just learing from those guys and I think he's probably is again consistancy and most of all race pace!He just can't hang on to the leaders like Sete or Max sometimes do.

That will be enough for the Repsol Honda team for now..Let's move on the the Telefonica Movistar team and of course..
Vale's arch-rival -Sete Gibernau.Well I one thing is very very vrey true for SeteHadn't Valentino got in the moto gp paddoc Sete would have been a world champion in no time.He is the only guy who can run steadly at Rossi's pace however..just can't escape from the medicine of the doctor.I think he needs a wiser head and a bit more natural feeling of the bike in order to beat him.You gotta remember that in 03 he beat Vale a couple of times on the last lap-Sachsenring 2003 and Le Man 2003.As a rider Sete is possbly he's doing the best he can but..that just ain't enough to beat Vale..

Although as I rider Sete loves pure mid range power and that is visible on TV.He always gets the more mid range torque hp curve and that is visible when seeing him exiting corner hard.However this also affects his peak hp performance in terms of top speed.I think one of Sete's disadvantages is that does not get the Honda to reach is top speed potencial.This is in way of his riding style also.Because when he enters a corner he's a guy who first picks the thing as much up as possible and then chugs it in for the apex of the curves.I think he lacks a little bit centrufugal force management but..you know-that's his riding style and nobody has the right to consider this as a disadvantage of Sete.

His teammate though is probably the sensation of 2005-so far he has had only podium finishes and 4th place.Not bad for a guy on a new bike ,uh?After having kinda insignificant perioud of his career now Marko is showing only the tip of the iceberg.Believe when Marko gets more confidence and feeling of the RC 211 V,when he does that(mark my words) he will be running the leaders pace.The question is when is that gonna happen.Well noone knows..its just a question of how will Marko evolve as a rider.

As far for him on the track..before he got on the Honda I used to think of him not as an agressive rider..but when I saw this man sliding both tires trying to take first place on the brakes for first San Danato corner of Mugello..mann this just ain't the same guy!As I said he has much more of a potential to show and it will be done in future.
Let's moove on to the Camel Honda squad with team boss Sito Pons..basically its a great team with great people and great motorbike and again it's a question of the riders being able to show the potential of the team.

Starting with the Alexander Barros...Alex is just such a great rider-he's the most experienced-currently having his 20th(!!!) season in the Moto GP world championship.He's experience and wisdom with the bike is uncomparable..but like so many like him-never ever has been consistant enough for the title..sad but true..but at Estoril this year he showed us that when he's in the mood NOBODY can't stop him-not even Rossi.

About what he does on the track..don't forget he is renowned as Mr Demon late braker.It is almost imposiible to pass this guy on the brakes(but Rossi did it once I think in Motegi last year-might be mistaken though don't remeber that well).That incredible late braking is a part of his style which is an incredible game between centrifugal force,center of mass of the bike,center of gravity of himself,the central line of the bike and of course-the incredible agility of the RC 211 V chassis which helps him do all this!Unlike say...Sete Gibernau for example who as I said previously likes first to pick the thing up beofre going to a corner ,Alex Barros actually brakes at a leaned mtoorcycle and while braking-he's already looking for the apex of the turn.Incredible game of sliding,braking force,physics etc.That's why I really really really respect him.

And we come to his teammate Troy Bayliss!He's such a great guy!He just sort of "reflects" energy around him!I like him as a character but however...as a rider he has much to learn.First of all he was so damn used to the Desmosedici riding style and now when he's on the Honda-he just has to explore a whole new science..in terms of finding the feeling,the pace with the bike and of course feeling comfortable with it.Maybe that is the reason he just struggles this season and crashes sooo manny times..he just has to explore the RC.But..I am sure this will eventually happen and as we have seen in previous years when he was riding the Duc-he can be one the best!It's just a matter of time!We shall wait and we shall see!

Let's move to the new Conica Minolta Honda team(kinda new actually those are the same guys who used to work for Sito Pons last year so..Tamada prtty much knows everyone).Their only rider-Makoto Tamaga..the godzila from Japan!lolI think I should quote Julian Ryder(moto gp expert)-Tamada is one of the few guys who actually are very very confident they can beat Rossi.He is just so confident which is a very very good thing indeed.Last year at Motegi he said"I am gonna demolish him" and eventually he did so.He is just one of the guys who don't know the meaning of the word fear.I like his personality very very much.Proud(not to proud lol),confident and showing very very good skills with the bike indeed.However he just needs to win more often in order to win a title one day.I don't know if this will ever happen-it is all a question of his evolution as a rider.
By the way his riding style is something I have never seen before..it was a real show when he was running those brigestones who had far more side grip and just we used to see him taking lines that just have never ever been seen before!it was a real show seeing him running those lines..incredible!Right now is adapting fully to michelin maybe this is the reason he's not that fast?(well he had a big injury I know but who knows..)

There was one major race I saw Tamada fearless..it was Motegi 2003..last lap and Tamada looking to get on the podium in his native GP and he's running in fourth just at the tail of Sete Gibernau..then Sete feels Makoto and goes for a defensive line before the back straight wich is a lot slower and now Tamada is right behind him looking for slip stream..wheeliing over the crest..and suddenly Tamada goes for an incredible manuevre on the left(that's the inside) and Sete was just on the outside of it..and then he ended up in the gravel and with 5th rather than 3rd position(reminiscence Jerez k5?)..after all Makoto ended up with a disqualiication on that race(which i think was stupid because when racing is that close-you just gonna have a arcing incident-it was all fair and square).
Well I think that will be my comment on the current moto GP tendentions.
I ask you to tell me your opinion about it and I wanna know if there are anyone who are interested in this stuff and should I continue to post these long but very very informative posts.Thanks in advance!
 
Hey Biker boy,

Moved this to the general motoGP chat for you
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First, welcome to the site! Hope you enjoy it here & have fun.

Second........................what a first post! Wow.......I need to print it & read it before I comment!

Just wanted to say hello
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Ben.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BEN @ Jun 28 2005, 11:42 AM)<div class='quotemain'>Hey Biker boy,

Moved this to the general motoGP chat for you
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First, welcome to the site!  Hope you enjoy it here & have fun.

Second........................what a first post!  Wow.......I need to print it & read it before I comment!

Just wanted to say hello
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Ben.
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How the fck do you follow that!!!!!
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Welcome ,bud
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biker boy, wowwwwwwwwww wot a post, but makes a lot of sence, i agree rossi cant wait to hit the front then he can control the race and most importantly his tryes, he hasnt mae a start yet but sure he will even thow the yam seems to have lost sumthin from last year when he made say 6 or 7 starts,
 
Big welcome also Bikerboy.

Very impressive 1st post written with a lot of passion and knowledge If I may add.

But please Just one little request,,, try and keep em a Tad shorter as we staff have to read through all of that, for all we know you may have put some Santanic verses in there somewhere
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Enjoy your stay here.
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Welcome aboard Biker Boy. That's a hell of a first post, you really know the technical side of racing. That is good to hear as I am very keen to pick up on things like that, I feel knowing aspects about a rider's style and a bike's performance help to understand who is fast and who isn't and why. Look forward to hearing more from you.
 
Nice post Biker boy.

Just a couple of things, you're right about Colin being big (for riders standards), but Vale is even bigger. Only Hoffman and Xaus are bigger than Rossi.

2nd I think Melandri is an extremely agressive rider, in 1999 he was fighting for the 125cc world championship against Alzamora, in the last race he was 1st and Alzamora 2nd, but he needed more than 5 points to win the Championship, so he slowed down and tried to take Alzamora out of the track.

I'll try to give my opinion of the riders (I'll try to keep it short
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) and grade:

GAULOISES YAMAHA
Rossi: He is simply the best, great pace, great adaptability(if that word exists), but his best quality is his race control, he is the smartest guy on track. A+

Edwards: Good rider, great sensibility for tires, but lacks pace and consistency to be a nº 1 in MotoGP. B

REPSOL HONDA
Biaggi: I think his best days are over, I expected more from him, considering he has the best bike on the grid (and he still complains about it). B

Hayden: He has been 2 years in a row the worst Honda rider, I think his results are the worst ever for a HRC team rider. There's still room for improvement because he is young, but I think he should go back to AMA if he wants to win races. D

MOVISTAR HONDA
Sete: If Rossi didn't exist, he would be a 2 times world champion now, he has the consistency and pace to beat everyone but Rossi. A

Melandri: He has improved a lot, he is now Rossi's closest rival. Great season for him. B+

CAMEL HONDA
Barros: He is a great "braker", great on wet tracks but totally unreliable, he has 4 bad races for each good one. B

Bayliss: Him, Xaus and Hodgson are making me think SBK is for loosers.Maybe he is to old for MotoGP. C-

KAWASAKI
Nakano: Consistent, he always beats his teammate, it's difficult to say because the Kawa is not a top bike, and the Bridgestones are really bad this year. B

Hoffman: Not MotoGP material. D

SUZUKI
Kenny Jr: This guy was lucky in 2000, Doohan was retired, Crivillé was ill and Rossi a newbie in 500, probably the most undeserving champion ever. Still he is very good when it rains. C+

Hopkins: Considering he is one of the youngest and that he is ridind a piece of junk (aka Suzuki) he is doing pretty well. B

DUCATI
Capirossi: Great on qualy, he has the ability to do one 1 incredible lap, unfortunately for him races have more than 1 lap. B

Checa: This guy is consistent, but hasn't got the pace to be on the top. C

YAMAHA FORTUNA

Xaus: His debut was promising, he managed a podium in Quatar in his rookie year with the 2003 Ducati. But this year he is struggling badly with the Yamaha (similar case to Bayliss). C

Elias: He had the pace and the consistency in 250cc. Lets see if he can do it in MotoGP. So far so good. B

I won't comment on the PROTON, D'ANTIN and WCM guys, they don't have a decent bike, so I can't judge their skills fairly.
 
That is a pretty extensive list. As far as Nicky goes keep in mind he is only 23 years old and has only seen these tracks for the first time in 2003. HRC see a lot of potential in him and I see it too, don't count him out. He also lies higher in points than Tamada and Bayliss this season and I predict he will overtake Barros and perhaps either Biaggi or Gibernau. I wouldn't rate him a D rider, at the moment I would consider him B or B- with loads of potential. I don't see Sete as an A rider, he dwindled away a factory HRC ride when he came up and did nothing with Suzuki and at the time you couldn't say the bike was crap, it won a title in 2000. Sponsorship money is the only reason he landed another Honda ride and that puts him where he is at today. If Rossi were not here I don't believe he would have won the last two titles anyways, his personality reflects he is not a champion, IMO. I rate him a B. Bayliss just doesn't have the correct riding style and it is so hard to change the way you're used to working after doing it for so long. He rides it like a Superbike, point and shoot, where GP bikes require more corner speed which is why he is struggling. The reason he saw some success on the Ducati is because it's handling characteristics were similar to that of a Superbike. I would rate him a C+ rider. The same goes for Xaus, although he can still change his ways. I rate him B- with potential.
 
Tamada has been injured and Bayliss is 36 and they're not in HRC.
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Sete managed to win a GP in the 2 stroke Suzuki, he beated his teammate Roberts, so he was quite good considering the piece of junk he was riding.
 
He did finish higher in the tables in 2001, but then got thumped in 2002. I am confident if Roberts Jr. would not be so stubborn about leaving a factory team and ride a satelite Honda as Gibernau did he would have the same results.
 
Let me first to all the guys who welcomed me here!Thanks fellows!
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Second of all:teomolca-I accept your remarks buddy and I am glad to share some experience and knowledge!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Jun 28 2005, 03:17 PM)<div class='quotemain'>you really know the technical side of racing.  That is good to hear as I am very keen to pick up on things like that, I feel knowing aspects about a rider's style and a bike's performance help to understand who is fast and who isn't and why.  Look forward to hearing more from you.
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Im with Ooost on that Biker boy, i love the technical side to it all and HOW these guys go fast and why they dont go fast- RESPECT
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RallyeRon @ Jul 12 2005, 11:52 AM)<div class='quotemain'>Im with Ooost on that Biker boy, i love the technical side to it all and HOW these guys go fast and why they dont go fast- RESPECT
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Hahaha, RESPECT. All that goes through my head when I hear respect is Ali G. Especially with the British accent and whatnot. Have I told you guys recently that you all hold a special place in my heart?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dazza @ Jun 28 2005, 12:27 PM)<div class='quotemain'>Big welcome also Bikerboy.

Very impressive 1st post written with a lot of passion and knowledge If I may add.

But please Just one little request,,, try and keep em a Tad shorter as we staff have to read through all of that, for all we know you may have put some Santanic verses in there somewhere
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Enjoy your stay here.
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Steady there mate,I`m a Satanist with humour!!...Well sometimes.
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I think the technical posts are awsome. Just hoping to steal some of your knowledge for my pics on motogp.com for the next race.
 
OMG you guys, I am so out of my league when it gets real technical!!

Kath
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P.S. I have printed the topic so i can have a good read
 

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