Lorenzo injured..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 12 2010, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can a vibrator replace a skilled man?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Feb 12 2010, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Injuries are a part of training. Look at how many American Football players are lost for the season during pre season training. They know that game shape is different than just being in shape so its full contact practice and let the chips fall where they may.
imo there is a difference between those type of trainings. yes these footballplayers need those type of training. yes 'our' riders need it too, BUT I think it should be more professional without the risks of injury. Ive no idea how footballplayers could lower the risks of injuries, but for riders it seems pretty obvious imo. accidents can happen, like that glass-accident of last year. no risks with simulation training, which means every rider would be fit and ready to fight for the championship

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 12 2010, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can a vibrator replace a skilled man?
very mature. lets point out the fact that Im a woman in a not so subtle way. whats that got to do with training? Id rather discus their trainings, but if you want to discuss vibrators go to the launch start a topic there and some girls might give you advice.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Feb 13 2010, 06:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>imo there is a difference between those type of trainings. yes these footballplayers need those type of training. yes 'our' riders need it too, BUT I think it should be more professional without the risks of injury. Ive no idea how footballplayers could lower the risks of injuries, but for riders it seems pretty obvious imo. accidents can happen, like that glass-accident of last year. no risks with simulation training, which means every rider would be fit and ready to fight for the championship


very mature. lets point out the fact that Im a woman in a not so subtle way. whats that got to do with training? Id rather discus their trainings, but if you want to discuss vibrators go to the launch start a topic there and some girls might give you advice.
Great stuff, I can't stop laughing!!!!!! Although jums was a classic!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Feb 12 2010, 06:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>its quite a mystery to me why some/all riders take lots of risks with 'training' during the offseason. I know, they're on a break, deserve some fun bla bla. but as a rider you have responsibilities, right? iirc they werent allowed to go skiing, but why would they be allowed to do this kind of training? if I were the teammanager (maybe zeelenberg reads this) Id ask my riders not to train with those bikes. how many riders have messed up their season in the past before it even started???? there must be other ways to train themselfs with less risks

keeping that "feel" for a motorbike is the reason...tiss why most racers do motocross or supermoto in the off season to not loose that touch..


get better Jorge..rest up...you're gonna need it... Go Spies

Luckily, there are 2 months to go till racing, so plenty of time.

Missing out on one of only a small number of tests is not ideal, but should not affect him that much in the long run.

I hope nobody is injured during the season- I want 4 1/2 aliens every race!

Fractured metacarpal should heal enough for him to ride within a month.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Feb 12 2010, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>imo there is a difference between those type of trainings. yes these footballplayers need those type of training. yes 'our' riders need it too, BUT I think it should be more professional without the risks of injury. Ive no idea how footballplayers could lower the risks of injuries, but for riders it seems pretty obvious imo. accidents can happen, like that glass-accident of last year. no risks with simulation training, which means every rider would be fit and ready to fight for the championship

Sorry Marijke, as you said you are on your own on this one.
You say: "Training on motorbikes is dangerous, they are unprofessional training like that"
In case you've forgotten: these guys do motorcycle racing for a living. Some easy motoX training is low risk in comparison and is indeed very professional way of preparing to the next season.

And again NO there is no fix you can throw money at and make a simulator that even remotely mimics the dynamics of a bike, the feedback from a front suspension and even when they get all that right they can never add the all important adrenaline rush from actually feeling your life is in danger. Simulators never bring up the feeling of living on the edge and the "Total Recall" future is still a bit ahead and no money can fix that.

Some of you have never been in a multimillion dollar military grade simulator. I have and it isn't your local arcade

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Feb 13 2010, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some of you have never been in a multimillion dollar military grade simulator. I have and it isn't your local arcade

Give me a break. A jet fighter or a tank, as impressive those simulator might be I strongly doubt they give that much detail on the feedback of the surface or otherwise. While a tank simulator will simulate up and downhill, acceleration and so on I doubt it deals with minor pieces in the "track" and how the influence the feedback into the controls and traction of the tank.
These simulators are there to train professionals in very advanced equipment where focus will be on procedures. I'm sure the level of detail and even detail on feedback is impressive but still it's just there to add to the sensation of actually being there. On a true bike racing simulator those details would have the main role and must give close to exact same feel as they do on the real track.With the bike we talk about some very simple controls but with an ifnfinitly more advanced model of extremely detailed dynamics.
Two totally different things.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 12 2010, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Give me a break. A jet fighter or a tank, as impressive those simulator might be I strongly doubt they give that much detail on the feedback of the surface or otherwise. While a tank simulator will simulate up and downhill, acceleration and so on I doubt it deals with minor pieces in the "track" and how the influence the feedback into the controls and traction of the tank.
These simulators are there to train professionals in very advanced equipment where focus will be on procedures. I'm sure the level of detail and even detail on feedback is impressive but still it's just there to add to the sensation of actually being there. On a true bike racing simulator those details would have the main role and must give close to exact same feel as they do on the real track.With the bike we talk about some very simple controls but with an ifnfinitly more advanced model of extremely detailed dynamics.
Two totally different things.

Lighten up. I agree. They can't simulate the actual landing on an aircraft carrier. Nothing replaces real life experience when it comes to these things. I'm with you

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 13 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Give me a break. A jet fighter or a tank, as impressive those simulator might be I strongly doubt they give that much detail on the feedback of the surface or otherwise. While a tank simulator will simulate up and downhill, acceleration and so on I doubt it deals with minor pieces in the "track" and how the influence the feedback into the controls and traction of the tank.
These simulators are there to train professionals in very advanced equipment where focus will be on procedures. I'm sure the level of detail and even detail on feedback is impressive but still it's just there to add to the sensation of actually being there. On a true bike racing simulator those details would have the main role and must give close to exact same feel as they do on the real track.With the bike we talk about some very simple controls but with an ifnfinitly more advanced model of extremely detailed dynamics.
Two totally different things.


I agree Fish. Simulators are for learning advanced procedures on complex equipment not for getting a feel of real life dynamic environments.

Although I guess you could say that a motocross bike is a simulator for a MotoGP bike!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Feb 13 2010, 01:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Lighten up. I agree. They can't simulate the actual landing on an aircraft carrier. Nothing replaces real life experience when it comes to these things. I'm with you

Oops, I didn't mean to come across as angry or anything. Just strongly opinionated.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 13 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Oops, I didn't mean to come across as angry or anything. Just strongly opinionated.
You've never struck me as...oh wait

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Feb 13 2010, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Oops, I didn't mean to come across as angry or anything. Just wrongly opinionated.

If Jorge were to miss the 1st race than technically couldn't Spies wild card in his stead. Why put off the inevitable. Jorge is just warming that seat up for him anyway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Feb 14 2010, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Strange, can never really figure out your age. 7 or 70?
But then again, who cares .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Feb 12 2010, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>very mature. lets point out the fact that Im a woman in a not so subtle way. whats that got to do with training? Id rather discus their trainings, but if you want to discuss vibrators go to the launch start a topic there and some girls might give you advice.

Well sweetheart...

You missed the point (not surprisingly). You questioned Lorenzo’s professionalism and prudence of work ethic by assuming he was dicking around on a dirt bike. Somebody responded to you with a fairly decent explanation as to why the training that caused the injury is actually the best way to prepare for his particular profession (you even got an endorsement quote by the “Infallible One”); BUT, you stubbornly wouldn’t buy it. You kept posting telling us there must be a better way, perhaps some simulation, perhaps some scientific contraption that wouldn’t “risk” injury but get the benefit of training…

Hence, my “vibrator” quip. There was actually meaning there genius. The point being, some things just can’t be substituted! Most of these guys use motocross because it builds not only the conditioning that is needed, but because the activity utilizes a motorcycle (with all the caveats and benefits of)—for which there is no substitute.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 14 2010, 04:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well sweetheart...

You missed the point (not surprisingly). You questioned Lorenzo’s professionalism and prudence of work ethic by assuming he was dicking around on a dirt bike. Somebody responded to you with a fairly decent explanation as to why the training that caused the injury is actually the best way to prepare for his particular profession (you even got an endorsement quote by the “Infallible One”); BUT, you stubbornly wouldn’t buy it. You kept posting telling us there must be a better way, perhaps some simulation, perhaps some scientific contraption that wouldn’t “risk” injury but get the benefit of training…

Hence, my “vibrator” quip. There was actually meaning there genius. The point being, some things just can’t be substituted! Most of these guys use motocross because it builds not only the conditioning that is needed, but because the activity utilizes a motorcycle (with all the caveats and benefits of)—for which there is no substitute.
Not to have a go at mari as her particpation in the forum is something I enjoy and something I missed during her absence last year, but if they were not banned from doing so these guys would be spending a huge amount more time testing their motogp bikes with a consequent extra risk of injury, and did much more testing in the past. From the report it doesn't sound like jorge was doing anything over the top and it was just one of those things. Entering an actual motocross race, as I think nicky hayden did leading to an injury in 2008, is arguably pushing it too far though, although in that particular case he may just have wanted to recapture the feeling of racing on a decent bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 13 2010, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well sweetheart...

You missed the point (not surprisingly). You questioned Lorenzo's professionalism and prudence of work ethic by assuming he was dicking around on a dirt bike. Somebody responded to you with a fairly decent explanation as to why the training that caused the injury is actually the best way to prepare for his particular profession (you even got an endorsement quote by the "Infallible One"); BUT, you stubbornly wouldn't buy it. You kept posting telling us there must be a better way, perhaps some simulation, perhaps some scientific contraption that wouldn't "risk" injury but get the benefit of training…

Hence, my "vibrator" quip. There was actually meaning there genius. The point being, some things just can't be substituted! Most of these guys use motocross because it builds not only the conditioning that is needed, but because the activity utilizes a motorcycle (with all the caveats and benefits of)—for which there is no substitute.

Plus training 'With' a 'Risk' actually improves your abilities to race; I mean, it does get you prepared to react better to situations that imply a 'Risk'. Which other possible way could you get better at 'Risk' situations than training with some degree of it?

When young (uh long time no see! ) I was stupid enough to jump out of a light aircraft . I even took a parachute training course; we learnt everything there was to it, from folding our chutes to landing. Hell, back then I was able to jump 5 times, and I .... my pants a least 10 times worth . You could see trainers all relaxed (smoking a cigar) and when the time to let go came, they would just let go… and for us students it was hell, a friend could not even let go, he got back in the plane after like a minute of being hanging out of it. By a short time I stopped assisting for economy matters, and after a couple of years another friend had jump like 100 times, by then he used to take it so easily, the shitting pants was just a anecdote for him!

The 'Risk' involved was the same, training with an actual 'Risk' maid the difference!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marijke @ Feb 12 2010, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>very mature. lets point out the fact that Im a woman in a not so subtle way. whats that got to do with training? Id rather discus their trainings, but if you want to discuss vibrators go to the launch start a topic there and some girls might give you advice.

Jumkie's joke - aside from it's non-PC-ness makes a substantive point. Both
military flight simulators and vibrators are missing an element crucial to the
realistic reproduction of what it is they're supposed to replace; G Forces.