povol
WTF do intelligent (and I mean Pov and Jums) Americans bother with this your guy/my guy ....? Both of those guys were/are heads of a one party system that has two logos. They both act first and foremost in the interests of big business, they both let the Fed run the economy, there is no discernible difference in foreign policy. With the exception with some personal political issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc), and those are only there to give you the illusion of a choice, it's just a single party.
Watching people argue about who is the better president is like watching two otherwise intelligent people argue about weather it's better to eat soup with a fork that has three tines or four...
WTF do intelligent (and I mean Pov and Jums) Americans bother with this your guy/my guy ....? Both of those guys were/are heads of a one party system that has two logos. They both act first and foremost in the interests of big business, they both let the Fed run the economy, there is no discernible difference in foreign policy. With the exception with some personal political issues (abortion, gay marriage, etc), and those are only there to give you the illusion of a choice, it's just a single party.
Watching people argue about who is the better president is like watching two otherwise intelligent people argue about weather it's better to eat soup with a fork that has three tines or four...
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
povol
Are you really this dense or do you not realize that in most of your retorts you actually support my point. What was the point? Oh yeah, you were 'bitching and moaning' (drama queen) about Jordan pushing to get AMA rules changed. I then pointed out that your beloved GP is no different, especially when it comes to HRC. And you point out they do the same with Suzuki? hahaha Thank you for making my point, you moron.
povol
Is this what Fox told you? Because it looked to me like "my ....." was looking for every reason NOT to attack. Even bringing it up to a Congress hell ben on obstruction to anything proposed. The interesting thing is that Russia did intervene, but they actually negotiated in our favor (despite thinking they were obstructing us) given that they pushed to destroy chemical weapons, something that a conflict would have made very messy. Guess who got the last laugh? Also, you should know, we never invade countries to help their people, there has to be something in it for us, even if its just imagined. 2-nil Any other bright points you'd like shoved backed up your ...? :lol: I better put a small i-heart-u emoticon before Baturro complains I'm being an a-hole to you old buddy.
baturro
But it did apply to HRC and Yamaha. I'm assuming you, like Pov are trying to make an alternate point, and the the actual point we were debating. But I'll refute both of them for you. 1. The fact the rule was suspended for Suzuki advances my point that the League will in collusion with a factory shift the rules. 2. the second point which you are desperate to downplay, is the fact the League in collusion with HRC no only 'suspended' the rule but scrapped it all together.
baturro
We already went over this, you affection for a rule is not relevant. There are plenty of "stupid" rules. It was a rule, and it applied to many riders. That rule would have remained today had Stoner not retired and the sudden need for HRC to fill the spot with Marquez. The moon is made of cheese. I have some beach front land in Kansas I'd like to sell you.
Are you really this dense or do you not realize that in most of your retorts you actually support my point. What was the point? Oh yeah, you were 'bitching and moaning' (drama queen) about Jordan pushing to get AMA rules changed. I then pointed out that your beloved GP is no different, especially when it comes to HRC. And you point out they do the same with Suzuki? hahaha Thank you for making my point, you moron.
povol
Is this what Fox told you? Because it looked to me like "my ....." was looking for every reason NOT to attack. Even bringing it up to a Congress hell ben on obstruction to anything proposed. The interesting thing is that Russia did intervene, but they actually negotiated in our favor (despite thinking they were obstructing us) given that they pushed to destroy chemical weapons, something that a conflict would have made very messy. Guess who got the last laugh? Also, you should know, we never invade countries to help their people, there has to be something in it for us, even if its just imagined. 2-nil Any other bright points you'd like shoved backed up your ...? :lol: I better put a small i-heart-u emoticon before Baturro complains I'm being an a-hole to you old buddy.
baturro
But it did apply to HRC and Yamaha. I'm assuming you, like Pov are trying to make an alternate point, and the the actual point we were debating. But I'll refute both of them for you. 1. The fact the rule was suspended for Suzuki advances my point that the League will in collusion with a factory shift the rules. 2. the second point which you are desperate to downplay, is the fact the League in collusion with HRC no only 'suspended' the rule but scrapped it all together.
baturro
We already went over this, you affection for a rule is not relevant. There are plenty of "stupid" rules. It was a rule, and it applied to many riders. That rule would have remained today had Stoner not retired and the sudden need for HRC to fill the spot with Marquez. The moon is made of cheese. I have some beach front land in Kansas I'd like to sell you.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Jumkie
So now it's " a" factory, not just Honda. In that case, your babbling conspiracy is dead. Its not a conspiracy to appease Honda if everyone is doing it.
3669501383663791
Are you really this dense or do you not realize that in most of your retorts you actually support my point. What was the point? Oh yeah, you were 'bitching and moaning' (drama queen) about Jordan pushing to get AMA rules changed. I then pointed out that your beloved GP is no different, especially when it comes to HRC. And you point out they do the same with Suzuki? hahaha Thank you for making my point, you moron.
Is this what Fox told you? Because it looked to me like "my ....." was looking for every reason NOT to attack. Even bringing it up to a Congress hell ben on obstruction to anything proposed. The interesting thing is that Russia did intervene, but they actually negotiated in our favor (despite thinking they were obstructing us) given that they pushed to destroy chemical weapons, something that a conflict would have made very messy. Guess who got the last laugh? Also, you should know, we never invade countries to help their people, there has to be something in it for us, even if its just imagined. 2-nil Any other bright points you'd like shoved backed up your ...? :lol: I better put a small i-heart-u emoticon before Baturro complains I'm being an a-hole to you old buddy.
But it did apply to HRC and Yamaha. I'm assuming you, like Pov are trying to make an alternate point, and the the actual point we were debating. But I'll refute both of them for you. 1. The fact the rule was suspended for Suzuki advances my point that the League will in collusion with a factory shift the rules. 2. the second point which you are desperate to downplay, is the fact the League in collusion with HRC no only 'suspended' the rule but scrapped it all together.
We already went over this, you affection for a rule is not relevant. There are plenty of "stupid" rules. It was a rule, and it applied to many riders. That rule would have remained today had Stoner not retired and the sudden need for HRC to fill the spot with Marquez. The moon is made of cheese. I have some beach front land in Kansas I'd like to sell you.
So now it's " a" factory, not just Honda. In that case, your babbling conspiracy is dead. Its not a conspiracy to appease Honda if everyone is doing it.
Sorry Jum, but your assuming has made you the .... I am only stating that when the Rookie rule was implemented there was provision that a factory team that had not won, or been on the podium (something to that effect) could sign a rookies. So in a way, letting Pov know that there was a legit reason for Bautista to go to a factory team and he was a bit wrong in using Bautistas factory ride as an example.
Do I think the rule was absurd? Yes. But what I think is inconsequential to the over all decisions made in Moto GP. Same with what you think, sorry to let you know. We are small fry. But what Herve thinks and other teams does matter. Gresini didn't like it, Tec 3 either, obviously HRC and I can guarantee Yamaha would be protesting right now if they didn't have Rossi on the pension plan and there was a rookie rule in place. I'm guessing they wouldn't mind Pol Esp on the factory ride, and since there is no Rookie rule they could sign him there. And if Ducati hadn't .... the bed, they could well have been in a position to put a rookie on their factory bike. It was changed for the greater good of the sport.
I don't see the conspiracy you do, sorry amigo.
Do I think the rule was absurd? Yes. But what I think is inconsequential to the over all decisions made in Moto GP. Same with what you think, sorry to let you know. We are small fry. But what Herve thinks and other teams does matter. Gresini didn't like it, Tec 3 either, obviously HRC and I can guarantee Yamaha would be protesting right now if they didn't have Rossi on the pension plan and there was a rookie rule in place. I'm guessing they wouldn't mind Pol Esp on the factory ride, and since there is no Rookie rule they could sign him there. And if Ducati hadn't .... the bed, they could well have been in a position to put a rookie on their factory bike. It was changed for the greater good of the sport.
I don't see the conspiracy you do, sorry amigo.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
povol
In your desperation to explain away why HRC Dorna did not collude to advance Marcs career to a factory Honda you have failed to defend the point you were originally attempting to make. You were bitching and moaning about Jordan's Suzuki in the AMA influencing rules. You have advanced my point. But you are stuck in trying to defend HRC's influence aligned with Dorna's willingness to scrap rules in favor of their new golden child Marc Marquez. You have not argued either point successfully.
Nuance. Not your strong suit. U remind me of Talpa when he retorted about indy's surface being too slippery for Valentino after he had crashed, saying if he was so powerful why can't he pressure Dorna to get indy to resurface the track. he said this to refute the influence of VR. in a similar vein you have made the same idiotic parallel. if he were able to bend the rules HRC were able to scratch the rules. There is a message there.
In your desperation to explain away why HRC Dorna did not collude to advance Marcs career to a factory Honda you have failed to defend the point you were originally attempting to make. You were bitching and moaning about Jordan's Suzuki in the AMA influencing rules. You have advanced my point. But you are stuck in trying to defend HRC's influence aligned with Dorna's willingness to scrap rules in favor of their new golden child Marc Marquez. You have not argued either point successfully.
povol
I wouldn't call Suzuki "everybody" and that's not forget Bautista is spanish. umm so the plot thickens, so the Rookie rule has been bent twice for spanish riders but no one else. Great point pov.
I wouldn't call Suzuki "everybody" and that's not forget Bautista is spanish. umm so the plot thickens, so the Rookie rule has been bent twice for spanish riders but no one else. Great point pov.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Jumkie
Ignoring the obvious again are we. Its not a conspiracy, or collusion if everyone is doing it. Again, you are simply butt hurt that the rider you deemed a cheat and overrated, is making you look the fool you are. Well. that theory is shot all to hell huh.
Ignoring the obvious again are we. Its not a conspiracy, or collusion if everyone is doing it. Again, you are simply butt hurt that the rider you deemed a cheat and overrated, is making you look the fool you are. Well. that theory is shot all to hell huh.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Haha Pov, ur replies are getting weaker and weaker. But I wont let u off the hook so easy my antagonists friend.1. Are u ready to concede ur first point (in which u moaned and bitched) over Jordan Suz wielding influence similar to HRC in GP as a way for these entries to impact rules? Hint: the right answer is yes.
2. "If everybody is doing it" thanks for admitting the reality to a degree, again u have advanced my point by ur own admission. The difference is degree. Some factories can get small concessions while HRC gets rules completely eliminated. (U dont see the difference do u).
2. "If everybody is doing it" thanks for admitting the reality to a degree, again u have advanced my point by ur own admission. The difference is degree. Some factories can get small concessions while HRC gets rules completely eliminated. (U dont see the difference do u).
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Mick D
First off, your facts are wrong. Second, there are plenty of rules riders, engineers, pundits, and spectators think are .......which have remained in place and not changed in haste because one solitary team need to fill a sudden vacancy. Third, those riders who otherwise would have been vying for that vacancy were in fact affected, in addition to those before who were made to sign with satellite teams as rookie. Baturro brought up a good point regarding the exception made for Suzuki. The elimination of the rule was decidedly to help favor a solitary competitor, HRC (that is the supposed impartial league was acting as advocate for one against the others) the motivation to do this was to advance Dorna's promotion of one rider (as they saw benefit to sales) at the expense of integrity of the sport's parameters--this is the part that u are missing (and you're in abundant company).
First off, your facts are wrong. Second, there are plenty of rules riders, engineers, pundits, and spectators think are .......which have remained in place and not changed in haste because one solitary team need to fill a sudden vacancy. Third, those riders who otherwise would have been vying for that vacancy were in fact affected, in addition to those before who were made to sign with satellite teams as rookie. Baturro brought up a good point regarding the exception made for Suzuki. The elimination of the rule was decidedly to help favor a solitary competitor, HRC (that is the supposed impartial league was acting as advocate for one against the others) the motivation to do this was to advance Dorna's promotion of one rider (as they saw benefit to sales) at the expense of integrity of the sport's parameters--this is the part that u are missing (and you're in abundant company).
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
Jumkie
Nothing. However, HRC has been in the game a long time and sunk a great deal of money into the sport. As far as I'm concerned, they've earned (most) of the power they have—although I'd love it for Dorna to become a little more powerful to get something resembling a checks-and-balances system—by their ongoing involvement in the sport. It wasn't that long ago that Honda was powering, if not building outright, six win-capable bikes on the grid. (In a time when Yamaha and Ducati were content to lease two satellite bikes to whoever was willing to pay, give them a pat on the back and wish them the best of luck—Luis D'Antin and the Dunlop-shod Tech 3s, anyone?)
I've spoken to a number of people in the AMA paddock involved with factory or factory-level efforts and not one had anything good to say about Jordan. He showed up, threw some money around, and got nowhere. When it became apparent to him that the only way to win in Superbike was to have factory-level equipment, he complained until DMG decided that the sport was more valuable if the likes of Michael Jordan—and what was sure to be countless other benefactors just lining up to get involved if only the playing field was level...—was happy and competitive than it was with Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Ducati all involved and financially supporting the sport.
Say what you will about Honda, but their threat has always been that they'd walk if their demands weren't met. Jordan's were met and he left anyway.
Nothing. However, HRC has been in the game a long time and sunk a great deal of money into the sport. As far as I'm concerned, they've earned (most) of the power they have—although I'd love it for Dorna to become a little more powerful to get something resembling a checks-and-balances system—by their ongoing involvement in the sport. It wasn't that long ago that Honda was powering, if not building outright, six win-capable bikes on the grid. (In a time when Yamaha and Ducati were content to lease two satellite bikes to whoever was willing to pay, give them a pat on the back and wish them the best of luck—Luis D'Antin and the Dunlop-shod Tech 3s, anyone?)
I've spoken to a number of people in the AMA paddock involved with factory or factory-level efforts and not one had anything good to say about Jordan. He showed up, threw some money around, and got nowhere. When it became apparent to him that the only way to win in Superbike was to have factory-level equipment, he complained until DMG decided that the sport was more valuable if the likes of Michael Jordan—and what was sure to be countless other benefactors just lining up to get involved if only the playing field was level...—was happy and competitive than it was with Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Ducati all involved and financially supporting the sport.
Say what you will about Honda, but their threat has always been that they'd walk if their demands weren't met. Jordan's were met and he left anyway.
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
Jumkie
Which facts are wrong exactly? Which phantom motor rider was gonna step in and take a bike from Dani, Casey, Jorge, Vale or Ben? None during the time the rule was in affect. My abundant company and I understand that it was a stupid rule from the outset and was doomed to fall for whomever the next phenom was. Y'all can spin it till the cows are back, but this was win-win. And where the .... are you going with 'integrity of the sport's parameters' - are you hallucinating? Your whole point for years has been the sport has no ....... integrity!?!?!?
Which facts are wrong exactly? Which phantom motor rider was gonna step in and take a bike from Dani, Casey, Jorge, Vale or Ben? None during the time the rule was in affect. My abundant company and I understand that it was a stupid rule from the outset and was doomed to fall for whomever the next phenom was. Y'all can spin it till the cows are back, but this was win-win. And where the .... are you going with 'integrity of the sport's parameters' - are you hallucinating? Your whole point for years has been the sport has no ....... integrity!?!?!?
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Jumkie
You are like the little kid who sticks his fingers in his ears and screams lalalalalalalalalal when you're cornered. Your conspiracy was always Honda, now it's well, everybody does it, but but Honda is a bunch of meanies and they do it more.You dumb ...., its called leverage, has nothing to do with conspiracies. Honda and Repsol have leverage, they use it. Grow up, its the way things work.
You are like the little kid who sticks his fingers in his ears and screams lalalalalalalalalal when you're cornered. Your conspiracy was always Honda, now it's well, everybody does it, but but Honda is a bunch of meanies and they do it more.You dumb ...., its called leverage, has nothing to do with conspiracies. Honda and Repsol have leverage, they use it. Grow up, its the way things work.
Mick D
I'm not sure i agree that the rookie rule was stupid. These up and coming motorcycles racers need protecting from themselves sometimes. Markie has had several crashes and near misses this season. He misses loads of apex's and braking points. A lot would think going from moto3 or 125 as it was straight to motogp a step to much in one stride. Yet moto2 to factory hrc is not a problem ??? I believe the rule was put in place foe safety reasons yet scrapped for what reason?
I'm not sure i agree that the rookie rule was stupid. These up and coming motorcycles racers need protecting from themselves sometimes. Markie has had several crashes and near misses this season. He misses loads of apex's and braking points. A lot would think going from moto3 or 125 as it was straight to motogp a step to much in one stride. Yet moto2 to factory hrc is not a problem ??? I believe the rule was put in place foe safety reasons yet scrapped for what reason?
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
povol
Cornered? Fascinating. You're so disconnected from your inability to advance your position in a debate, that when u have been unsuccessful you think the other guy is cornered? Thats quite amazing. I will keep applying the pressure then.
1. Again u came on this thread 'bitching & moaning' about Jordan wielding influence (or as u call it now "leverage") to impact rules. Its not ok for Jordan but it is ok for HRC. Interesting, why would that be? Huh? I pointed out your beloved HRC do the same .... and worse, several times now, despite u trying to weasel out, u have been unsuccessful to explain the distinction. If its bad in the AMA to carry on this way it should be bad for GP. That is called a double standard. One you have spent your entire forum opinions confirming you subscribe.
2. Elimination of Rookie rule in favor of HRC at their behest, separate issue, but one u are desperate to downplay because admitting it or accepting it would taint everything produced from such a dubious arrangement. When an influential participant like HRC collude with the League for exclusive benefit, there is a loss of integrity.
Oh but you sought a dictionary and learned the word "leverage" to make u feel better about HRC 'conspiring' with Dorna to eliminate a rule in their favor. Haha.
Cornered? Fascinating. You're so disconnected from your inability to advance your position in a debate, that when u have been unsuccessful you think the other guy is cornered? Thats quite amazing. I will keep applying the pressure then.
1. Again u came on this thread 'bitching & moaning' about Jordan wielding influence (or as u call it now "leverage") to impact rules. Its not ok for Jordan but it is ok for HRC. Interesting, why would that be? Huh? I pointed out your beloved HRC do the same .... and worse, several times now, despite u trying to weasel out, u have been unsuccessful to explain the distinction. If its bad in the AMA to carry on this way it should be bad for GP. That is called a double standard. One you have spent your entire forum opinions confirming you subscribe.
2. Elimination of Rookie rule in favor of HRC at their behest, separate issue, but one u are desperate to downplay because admitting it or accepting it would taint everything produced from such a dubious arrangement. When an influential participant like HRC collude with the League for exclusive benefit, there is a loss of integrity.
Oh but you sought a dictionary and learned the word "leverage" to make u feel better about HRC 'conspiring' with Dorna to eliminate a rule in their favor. Haha.
