Is now the time to march Dani to the gallows?

I don't think Rossi is getting old ...... well I don't think he has lost any ...... its just that there have been new guys who far exceed Rossi's talent.


 


In fact the god of all riding, Casey Stoner, once said  ........ Rossi's ambition outweighs his talent.


 


Also Rossi was once know as the "goat" which meant the "greatest of atrophied talents" and referred to a distinctly talentless era of GP.


 


 


 


Imagine if Dani left and all we had was the likes of rossi etc...    boring.

Talpa

3627731381230732

Wow, come out of the closet just for me eh?


And we've gone to the engine reg, the sole tyre supplier, back to 1000cc......since 2007, no affect on fuel consumption genius? And the 24litre limit in 2004 is a pointless argument.

Anything technical to add to support your rant?


And would you like me to find Jorge, Dani's or Stoners list of excuses? What you've never heard a rider explain why they weren't competitive?

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I was riding a Ducati seems to be a fairly credible general purpose excuse.

la-pirata

3627751381231275

No, I am not to busy, its just not worth writing to much, Rossi is older and past his best, this is a fact of life that comes to every one, I just think it is really sad that you are so blinded by your idolisation of Rossi, that you try your hardest to make excuses for him.

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That's your opinion, I have mine. I'm not sad at all, you should cheer up mate. Far from excuses, I'm simply challenging the detractors to come up with solid argument with facts to back their opinions on this.


Now do you actually have something to offer to the fuel limit debate?

Talpa

3627831381233502

That's your opinion, I have mine. I'm not sad at all, you should cheer up mate. Far from excuses, I'm simply challenging the detractors to come up with solid argument with facts to back their opinions on this.


Now do you actually have something to offer to the fuel limit debate?

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Yes it sucks.

Talpa

3627831381233502

That's your opinion, I have mine. I'm not sad at all, you should cheer up mate. Far from excuses, I'm simply challenging the detractors to come up with solid argument with facts to back their opinions on this.


Now do you actually have something to offer to the fuel limit debate?

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The fuel limit is a good idea in the abstract/as a pure engineering end, but disastrous for actual bike racing. I believe Valentino in his prime would be competitive with or better than anyone on any bike (except perhaps an 800 Ducati)

michaelm

3627861381234074

The fuel limit is a good idea in the abstract/as a pure engineering end, but disastrous for actual bike racing. I believe Valentino in his prime would be competitive with or better than anyone on any bike (except perhaps an 800 Ducati)

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This is HRC's justification to Corporate when they decide the budget every year.  I wonder if we will ever see any of this fuel managment applied ot real world vehicles, or are we already seeing that in some of their product lines?

povol

3627421381189107

And i said Lorenzo weighs a mere 3-4 pounds less than Rossi, yet is beating him by 15 seconds. Everybodies bike cuts power to make it, are you saying Rossi's 4 pounds is costing him 15 seconds to his teammate

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<span style="font-size:14px;If your care to listen only to your own mental monologue, why bother replying to my posts? Jumkie's disease has become contagious!?


 


If you read again (or for the first time) what I have already written, you'll find your answer: I am not blaming Rossi's weight for his relatively poor performance. I said it's an additional issue for him among many others that are more important, that's all -- because you asked what influence could weight have on a 1000cc. Power uses fuel, weight uses power. Every ounce counts on a MototGP bike. 


<span style="font-size:14px;Lorenzo is faster because he's riding better than Rossi, and Rossi is the first to admit it. He's not looking for excuses, so why the heck should anybody stir this kind of nonsense up? 

J4rn0

3628071381264608

<span style="font-size:14px;If your care to listen only to your own mental monologue, why bother replying to my posts? Jumkie's disease has become contagious!?


 


If you read again (or for the first time) what I have already written, you'll find your answer: I am not blaming Rossi's weight for his relatively poor performance. I said it's an additional issue for him among many others that are more important, that's all -- because you asked what influence could weight have on a 1000cc. Power uses fuel, weight uses power. Every ounce counts on a MototGP bike. 


<span style="font-size:14px;Lorenzo is faster because he's riding better than Rossi, and Rossi is the first to admit it. He's not looking for excuses, so why the heck should anybody stir this kind of nonsense up? 

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Ask Burgess why he is stirring this nonsense.

Not only do I think that bike/rider weight limits should be introduced, I think they should be retrospectively applied.


 


An intelligently designed "fat .... pie eater" coefficient - applied effectively to the point score - should see Rob McElnea comfortably take the 1986 500cc WC.

Talpa

3627731381230732

Wow, come out of the closet just for me eh?


And we've gone to the engine reg, the sole tyre supplier, back to 1000cc......since 2007, no affect on fuel consumption genius? And the 24litre limit in 2004 is a pointless argument.

Anything technical to add to support your rant?


And would you like me to find Jorge, Dani's or Stoners list of excuses? What you've never heard a rider explain why they weren't competitive?

Click to expand...

 


You know I love sparring with you Talps.....its not intellectually challenging to debunk your drivel but it sure is fun!


 


So you obviously would prefer we just add engine reg, sole tyre supplier and back to 1000cc to your excuses list rather than acknowledging that the fuel regs have been static over the last 6 years....no problems.


 


IMO Rossis decline in performance relative to his peers is due to a number of factors but equipment isnt one I would consider a prime reason. More likely is the fact that.....


 


1. The "new guys" realised that they had to raise the bar to beat him...they have acheived that goal and have taken it a step too far where it is now very difficult for him to be regularly among the leading group (and I reckon Marquez has just lifted it a little bit higher again.) I believe he is somewhere in between Pedrosa and Bautista/Bradl/Crutchlow in terms of raw speed.


 


2. His "psyche" has taken a hammering and 90% of sport is won between the ears. The death of SIC, the broken leg and the reality of the Ducati nightmare have dulled his motivation and hunger - he just isnt prepared to take risks like he did before.


 


3. Age...not quite as important as I believe if he keeps his body in good shape he could maintain a high level of performance until his late 30's (as Doohan and others can attest). But performance over time will decline.


 


4. His competitors no longer fear him. This was a huge advantage in previous seasons but no longer applies.


 


He is currently on a bike that has won 7 of the last 10 world titles - and is regularly beaten by his team mate on exactly the SAME bike...pretty hard to argue with that fact and make a case that its about equipment parity. But I am sure you will just respond with another lame excuse such as "Yamaha are developing the M1 around JLo"....as they should. He is clearly a superior rider at present.


 


I take no pleasure in seeing a great champion in decline....but knowing how much it rankles you gives me a smile. And by all means feel free to compile a list of excuses for DP, JLo + CS....it wont make your hero any faster though will it :whistling:

Mr Squiggle

3628161381282345

 

You know I love sparring with you Talps.....its not intellectually challenging to debunk your drivel but it sure is fun!

 

So you obviously would prefer we just add engine reg, sole tyre supplier and back to 1000cc to your excuses list rather than acknowledging that the fuel regs have been static over the last 6 years....no problems.

 

IMO Rossis decline in performance relative to his peers is due to a number of factors but equipment isnt one I would consider a prime reason. More likely is the fact that.....

 

1. The "new guys" realised that they had to raise the bar to beat him...they have acheived that goal and have taken it a step too far where it is now very difficult for him to be regularly among the leading group (and I reckon Marquez has just lifted it a little bit higher again.) I believe he is somewhere in between Pedrosa and Bautista/Bradl/Crutchlow in terms of raw speed.

 

2. His "psyche" has taken a hammering and 90% of sport is won between the ears. The death of SIC, the broken leg and the reality of the Ducati nightmare have dulled his motivation and hunger - he just isnt prepared to take risks like he did before.

 

3. Age...not quite as important as I believe if he keeps his body in good shape he could maintain a high level of performance until his late 30's (as Doohan and others can attest). But performance over time will decline.

 

4. His competitors no longer fear him. This was a huge advantage in previous seasons but no longer applies.

 

He is currently on a bike that has won 7 of the last 10 world titles - and is regularly beaten by his team mate on exactly the SAME bike...pretty hard to argue with that fact and make a case that its about equipment parity. But I am sure you will just respond with another lame excuse such as "Yamaha are developing the M1 around JLo"....as they should. He is clearly a superior rider at present.

 

I take no pleasure in seeing a great champion in decline....but knowing how much it rankles you gives me a smile. And by all means feel free to compile a list of excuses for DP, JLo + CS....it wont make your hero any faster though will it :whistling:

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In case u missed it, this is a debate on the fuel regs, but well done for not actually providing anything relevant. Feel free to dispute the claims of Burgess, Cal Rossi and co with some fact to support your opinion......


And I'm actually enjoying watching Rossi and Marc this season, it's far better than the previous 2 seasons. Unlike your hero, mine is still competing, whereas yours is doing what again? Do you really believe that the current M1 is not developed around Jorge?


And Yamaha have won 6 of the last 10 titles, 4 of them were won by Valentino Rossi.

Talpa

3628231381290419

In case u missed it, this is a debate on the fuel regs, but well done for not actually providing anything relevant. Feel free to dispute the claims of Burgess, Cal Rossi and co with some fact to support your opinion......


And I'm actually enjoying watching Rossi and Marc this season, it's far better than the previous 2 seasons. Unlike your hero, mine is still <strike>competing</strike>   riding, whereas yours is doing what again? Do you really believe that the current M1 is not developed around Jorge?


And Yamaha have won 6 of the last 10 titles, 4 of them were won by Valentino Rossi.

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Hi Talps, not buying in really, just had to change one word.  

6 of 9 until MM wins this year, Talps, which whilst highly likely has not as yet occurred. 7 of 12 for Valentino though, not entirely shabby.

Dr No

3628151381276144

Not only do I think that bike/rider weight limits should be introduced, I think they should be retrospectively applied.


 


An intelligently designed "fat .... pie eater" coefficient - applied effectively to the point score - should see Rob McElnea comfortably take the 1986 500cc WC.

Click to expand...

He was the original BIG MAC.

povol

3627611381207546

If you look at analysis, Rossi's lose of time is linear throughout the race. Its not like he he is 3-4 seconds behind after 2/3rds of the race, then suddenly drops 10 seconds in the last 1/3rd. That does not suggest fuel management  shutting him down,that suggests he is constantly slower than the top 3 lap after lap.

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The computers seem to have grown smarter over the last year or two.  No longer do we see a drastic fall off in the last few laps, when the computer suddenly realizes that it's behind the curve and abruptly jumps into ohshitgottasavegas! mode.   That said, your basic point about Rossi is well taken (at least by most of us): If fuel was a significant limiting factor, he would be qualifying at or near the pointy end, only to suffer a mysterious lack of race pace.  In reality, the exact opposite holds true; there has been only one race this year (San Marino) where he qualified higher than he finished.

BarryMachine

3627761381231697

I don't think Rossi is getting old ...... well I don't think he has lost any ...... its just that there have been new guys who far exceed Rossi's talent.

 

In fact the god of all riding, Casey Stoner, once said  ........ Rossi's ambition outweighs his talent.

 

Also Rossi was once know as the "goat" which meant the "greatest of atrophied talents" and referred to a distinctly talentless era of GP.

 

 

 

Imagine if Dani left and all we had was the likes of rossi etc...    boring.

Click to expand...

Nice to see you not lost your sense of humour, and still acting stupid. Well done my custodial Scottish cousin, you still have most folk fooled.....but we ken the score!

Geonerd

3628461381338317

 

The computers seem to have grown smarter over the last year or two.  No longer do we see a drastic fall off in the last few laps, when the computer suddenly realizes that it's behind the curve and abruptly jumps into ohshitgottasavegas! mode.   That said, your basic point about Rossi is well taken (at least by most of us): If fuel was a significant limiting factor, he would be qualifying at or near the pointy end, only to suffer a mysterious lack of race pace.  In reality, the exact opposite holds true; there has been only one race this year (San Marino) where he qualified higher than he finished.

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Well done my special friend. There must be more than 100 words here, you have come along way since just randomly ticking the like box.. Granted, your content is laughably inaccurate but hey, look at you up there trying. You might get to sit next to the driver on the bus home! Yeah! Honk that horn bus driver man!

basspete

3628631381349520

Well done my special friend. There must be more than 100 words here, you have come along way since just randomly ticking the like box.. Granted, your content is laughably inaccurate but hey, look at you up there trying. You might get to sit next to the driver on the bus home! Yeah! Honk that horn bus driver man!

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Ah, Pete crawls out from under his rock, corrosive as ever.


Remind us, please, just what do you contribute to the world other than random infliction of ill will?


 


p.s.


Kindly go hang yourself, you useless .....