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Is Casey Stoner the sole alien?

birdman

birdman

Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Riding style article in MCN AMCN.



Are they saying Stoner is a genius?



"There is another trickier problem caused by accelerating so early. Getting on the gas at the apex shifts load and thus grip away from the front tyre, which prevents the front from steering the motorcycle, causing it to run wide. Most riders struggle to find an answer to this one and just ease off the throttle, trading acceleration for steering. The geniuses have found a magical solution, subverting the front brake to other ends. While opening the throttle mid-corner they feather the front brake to keep the front tyre loaded thus improve grip and turning. Its a risky, knife edge technique."



Is this how Stoner found the way to ride the Ducati?
 

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I'm not sure but at the beginning of the season Rossi said the "trick" that Casey was doing involved the rear brake so it sounds similar to keeping the front down and loaded with the front brake. Like when they used the rear brake to keep the front end down before they had wheelie control.
 
Never get tired of seeing those sideways photos at full lean.

Looking forward to Lukey Heights at PI.
 
Rossi has no idea what Casey is doing, nor has MCN ( remember the great Neemes? "how t back it in" fiasco ........ that was good for a month of laughs )
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Cudlin probably knows what Stoner is doing ( but don't assume he'd be game enough yet to do it like Casey ), Baylis would know ...... as would any 10y or older Aussie dirt track kid.



MCN can rave all they like about using brakes, but its all in the throttle, body posn, and lean of the bike. Hell these kids learn it on bikes without brakes at all ........ so until Mt Neeves gets out there and has a go at it ....... he is just rattling on about nothing. I will give them that brakes can be used ........ but they are not the basis of it, the basis is that the bike sideways is what is slowing any tangential forward speed, and the centripetal force ( making the bike climb into a corner is provided by powering up the rear wheel. SO if you break traction by adding throttle ( counter intuitive I know, and possibly scary ) then you are in essence speeding up out of a corner so much sooner.
 
BarryMachine said:
Rossi has no idea what Casey is doing, nor has MCN ( remember the great Neemes? "how t back it in" fiasco ........ that was good for a month of laughs )
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I think rossi and burgess have a fair idea what stoner did on the ducati, burgess basically describing it as controlling the bike on the edge of crashing, which accords with your explanation. Probably not anything to try at home though, and possibly not a viable long term riding strategy for stoner himself, I think it wore him down, hence his immediate glee on encountering the honda which does not require such extremes.
 
michaelm said:
I think rossi and burgess have a fair idea what stoner did on the ducati, burgess basically describing it as controlling the bike on the edge of crashing, which accords with your explanation. Probably not anything to try at home though, and possibly not a viable long term riding strategy for stoner himself, I think it wore him down, hence his immediate glee on encountering the honda which does not require such extremes.
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Well thats like saying they really have no idea!, yes its very likely past the verge of crashing for some riders, but its bread and butter for some ( read any Aussie dirt track rider ) I disagree that its not a long term riding prospect ....... its what he knows .......... tell me Mick have you ever run a bike at a corner at say 90mph ( on dirt ) and thrown it sideways? no brakes, lap after lap? ( hell we used to have a 6hr dirt track race years ago .... so you can put a "for 6hrs " in there too. ........ just bring the back around and use the throttle to take the corner ? .... well I have ....... an so have millions of others .... its "nothing new to many" but "something alien to many" also, I suspect. That Stoner is doing it on tarmac makes many ( including me ) jump from the "nothing new ..." crowd, to the "something alien ....." set
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I remember MCN in about 2005 writing some other nonsense about how Rossi keeps the throttle slightly open during braking. Rossi laughed it off and said that MCN knows more about his own technique then he apparently does - his telemetry doesn't lie.



I'm not sure MCN is accurate. At most, Casey would use the rear brake (as was suggested by Preziosi, Capirossi, Rossi etc.) right before he gets on the gas to control the weight transfer to the rear, to make it smoother. All who have seen his telemetry say this - there is no mention of the front. Which is logical - the rear is much less sudden and better for minute corrections mid-corner.
 
i thought we already had a thread on this one.....casey stoner is dr. who , all credits to jumkie
 
I added some more riders/eras for whoevers interested. Just tried this front brake + throttle on the dirt bike just to feel it. Makes no difference on exit because the front wheel should be in the air haha. Can still steer a dirt bike on the back wheel it feels great when done right. Seriously on corner entry I have no idea about any of this stuff. When was the back it in or skid discussion? What month. I want to know more about this.
 
birdman said:
I added some more riders/eras for whoevers interested. Just tried this front brake + throttle on the dirt bike just to feel it. Makes no difference on exit because the front wheel should be in the air haha. Can still steer a dirt bike on the back wheel it feels great when done right. Seriously on corner entry I have no idea about any of this stuff. When was the back it in or skid discussion? What month. I want to know more about this.
Click to expand...





When wasn't it ....... would be more apt.
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Its an argument that I have running with Ereb, whereby he says "backing it in is done solely with the back brake and downshifting" ....... I disagree.
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birdman said:
I added some more riders/eras for whoevers interested. Just tried this front brake + throttle on the dirt bike just to feel it. Makes no difference on exit because the front wheel should be in the air haha. Can still steer a dirt bike on the back wheel it feels great when done right. Seriously on corner entry I have no idea about any of this stuff. When was the back it in or skid discussion? What month. I want to know more about this.
Click to expand...

Start http://www.powerslid...ng%20in%22&st=0 there... there may be references to previous discussions within...
 
You may not thank me after reading it... Others on the forum may beat me with sticks for dredging it up!!!!
 
BarryMachine said:
Well thats like saying they really have no idea!, yes its very likely past the verge of crashing for some riders, but its bread and butter for some ( read any Aussie dirt track rider ) I disagree that its not a long term riding prospect ....... its what he knows .......... tell me Mick have you ever run a bike at a corner at say 90mph ( on dirt ) and thrown it sideways? no brakes, lap after lap? ( hell we used to have a 6hr dirt track race years ago .... so you can put a "for 6hrs " in there too. ........ just bring the back around and use the throttle to take the corner ? .... well I have ....... an so have millions of others .... its "nothing new to many" but "something alien to many" also, I suspect. That Stoner is doing it on tarmac makes many ( including me ) jump from the "nothing new ..." crowd, to the "something alien ....." set
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Click to expand...

Whatever else, from his direct statements I don't think stoner was happy with the 2010 ducati and what he had to do to be competitive on it. To be fair, afaik he made no criticism at all of the 2009 ducati though.



Talk of single aliens etc is bunkum anyway, such things even if true at a point in time are transient, there is always eventually a faster gun. Even if rossi doesn't get back on a more suitable bike and prove he is still at the pinnacle, eventually marquez or someone else will surpass the current guys.
 
michaelm said:
Whatever else, from his direct statements I don't think stoner was happy with the 2010 ducati and what he had to do to be competitive on it. To be fair, afaik he made no criticism at all of the 2009 ducati though.



Talk of single aliens etc is bunkum anyway, such things even if true at a point in time are transient, there is always eventually a faster gun. Even if rossi doesn't get back on a more suitable bike and prove he is still at the pinnacle, eventually marquez or someone else will surpass the current guys.
Click to expand...

But in this case we have a rider that it seems all others either don't understand or don't want to try and emulate. I think Pedro, now that he's had a close up view looks resigned to being second fiddle.

Your other comment from JB about how close stoner goes to crashing is about right to me. In 2006 there was plenty. I doubt any other rider would be willing to do a year of crashing trying to perfect the technique whatever it is.
 
michaelm said:
Whatever else, from his direct statements I don't think stoner was happy with the 2010 ducati and what he had to do to be competitive on it. To be fair, afaik he made no criticism at all of the 2009 ducati though.



Talk of single aliens etc is bunkum anyway, such things even if true at a point in time are transient, there is always eventually a faster gun. Even if rossi doesn't get back on a more suitable bike and prove he is still at the pinnacle, eventually marquez or someone else will surpass the current guys.
Click to expand...



I have no idea why you have brought in reference to the Ducati 09 or 10?? Was that anything to do with the discussion? In any case the only thing I see alien in Stoner is, as I have said, that he uses a technique he would have learned in Aust. Dirt track. I would agree that somebody will come along and be the new alien ...... whether by having a skill that nobody else seems to have ( ergo Stoner ) or just being better at common skills (ergo Lorenzo ) who knows?
 
BarryMachine said:
I have no idea why you have brought in reference to the Ducati 09 or 10?? Was that anything to do with the discussion? In any case the only thing I see alien in Stoner is, as I have said, that he uses a technique he would have learned in Aust. Dirt track. I would agree that somebody will come along and be the new alien ...... whether by having a skill that nobody else seems to have ( ergo Stoner ) or just being better at common skills (ergo Lorenzo ) who knows?
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My point was in reply to you saying that the way he rode the ducati was viable long term/sustainable/not wearing for him. I don't think this is true in regard to the 2010 ducati.
 
michaelm said:
My point was in reply to you saying that the way he rode the ducati was viable long term/sustainable/not wearing for him. I don't think this is true in regard to the 2010 ducati.
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I don't think the performance of the Ducati was alien t anybody ......... well except the deluded Boppers who swore blind that it was an amazing machine and wanted Rossi on it ....... Stoner's technique is alien, compared to the other riders currently in MGP, and it explains why Stoner could ride the Ducati, irrespective of what year.



The fact that he is still applying that technique also shows it is viable long term ............. I'm kinda confused as to what you are identifying as "Stoner's Alienism"?
 

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