Is a MUGELLO RACE THREAD being boycotted too?

[lad]

Stoner was far quicker than Bautista - .... move, unnecessary risk, frustration and red mist this weekend has possibly cost the Championship which frankly he deserves, but that rash move could have cost Bautista a lot more. I now agree with Rog, Jum, Pete and whoever else is of the opinion that this guys own issues and screwed up head are his greatest enemy. Like Biaggi - he lacks the mentality and robust psyche of a true champion. I've fought this guy's ...... up corner for too long. Love him as a rider, respect his reasons for retiring, but if you're going to speak your mind - first ensure it's in a healthy state.



Saying that, regarding both the incident in qualifying and that 'boner-head' move in the race - seems no one saw Fenati in Moto 3 quail or Luthi on Espargaro in the Moto 2 race otherwise they would have expressed similar outrage.



I adore Mugello - together with Philip Island it ranks as the most spectacular and sublime settings and circuits to race motorcycles - but unlike P.I. it fails to consistently produce close racing.

Youve commented on an Internet forum and in your mind you've been fighting in his corner ahahahahahaha and you think HE has mental issues ahahahahahahah

 

[Gaz]

Well notice i called you a Boner (preferred term i believe) because i like you. I refrained from calling you a Neo Bopper so be grateful

I refuse to be drawn into a debate about Jerez 05. The only point it would serve is to take the focus away from todays incident and the comments that followed. You Boners and Neo's have used that tactic too many times when your god comes under fire for wrong doing. Besides i have not seen the 05 race for many years as i understand you are yet to see todays race so i will not comment unlike you.

Ah, the old line that has been used and ignored many times by many.



I am not commenting on the incident from a visual view and have made that perfectly clear but am commenting on the written word by yourself and for particular (and dare I say obvious) reasons of direct comparison between two like incidents.



You are correct in that people do raise comparitive issues as that is part of debate is it not when one can highlight a situation from past that was similar in order to make a point or seek clarification?



Why, as examples over the last few years we have seen numerous cases where people have asked 'why did this occur in 2011/2012 when no punishment was forthcoming in other years' (ie. the Simoncelli ride through at LeMans). Basically, people always use comparitive incidents as they set or are a precedent for what is deemed acceptable or not acceptable and whilst some aspects of tehse may change over time, essentially the incidents remain usable and discussable for debate.



In short, Stoner's move on Bautista has opened up dabate as to whether it was reckless, dangerous, negligent, deliberate, accidental etc, which is of course a fair amalgam of opinions. As a comparison similar incidents have occurred in the past with differeng results and discussion and that is what debate is about.



Did I ask about the Gibber v Rossi incident to debate?



Well not entirely but I did ask so as to highlight the differences that the riders involved can make to a viewers perception of the incident and Casey Stoner is after all a totally polarising figure within teh sport.



Your view (and that is what it is afterall - neither right nor wrong) is that it was a move that was (my term here) totally unnecessary and boneheaded ................ correct me if I have that wrong by the way.



I have no issues with the description as I am yet to see footage of the issue (have seen pics and still photos can at times not show the full story) but my take is that if Stoner is admitting fault than he ...... up. No excuses, he ...... up and he has admitted fault (yes Goat's link says different etc but still there is/was an apology and one can understand Alvaro being pissed)

 

[hawkdriver]

Well at least we have some interesting things going on tomorrow.

The test will be updated hourly with us being able to get the times.

Honda will be bringing out the 2013 bike

Ducati will have some kind of chassis updates to try and bring more balance to the bike and a revised engine. I hate to get my hopes up but maybe just maybe they can find a few tenths.

Yamaha should also have some new bits to test.

 

[Gaz]

True Hawk and an interesting aside will be which fo teh two riders at HRC receive greater support as (IMO) with Stoner leaving they need to listen to him to see if his feedback matches Dani's, but act on Pedrosa's feedback in terms of ongoing development for 2013 (as I assume that MM is not going to ride the bike at some stage)

 

[chopperman]

Ah, the old line that has been used and ignored many times by many.



I am not commenting on the incident from a visual view and have made that perfectly clear but am commenting on the written word by yourself and for particular (and dare I say obvious) reasons of direct comparison between two like incidents.



You are correct in that people do raise comparitive issues as that is part of debate is it not when one can highlight a situation from past that was similar in order to make a point or seek clarification?



Why, as examples over the last few years we have seen numerous cases where people have asked 'why did this occur in 2011/2012 when no punishment was forthcoming in other years' (ie. the Simoncelli ride through at LeMans). Basically, people always use comparitive incidents as they set or are a precedent for what is deemed acceptable or not acceptable and whilst some aspects of tehse may change over time, essentially the incidents remain usable and discussable for debate.



In short, Stoner's move on Bautista has opened up dabate as to whether it was reckless, dangerous, negligent, deliberate, accidental etc, which is of course a fair amalgam of opinions. As a comparison similar incidents have occurred in the past with differeng results and discussion and that is what debate is about.



Did I ask about the Gibber v Rossi incident to debate?



Well not entirely but I did ask so as to highlight the differences that the riders involved can make to a viewers perception of the incident and Casey Stoner is after all a totally polarising figure within teh sport.



Your view (and that is what it is afterall - neither right nor wrong) is that it was a move that was (my term here) totally unnecessary and boneheaded ................ correct me if I have that wrong by the way.



I have no issues with the description as I am yet to see footage of the issue (have seen pics and still photos can at times not show the full story) but my take is that if Stoner is admitting fault than he ...... up. No excuses, he ...... up and he has admitted fault (yes Goat's link says different etc but still there is/was an apology and one can understand Alvaro being pissed)

Well let me give you one comparison From jerez 05 and todays incident without being drawn into yet another jerez 05 debate. 05- Rossi and gibbers were on the last corner racing for the win. today was mid way and racing for 9th.

 

[Gaz]

Well let me give you one comparison From jerez 05 and todays incident without being drawn into yet another jerez 05 debate. 05- Rossi and gibbers were on the last corner racing for the win. today was mid way and racing for 9th.

Yep, knew that already but does that make cuplability different or does it create an extenuating circumstance and if so why does a race for position matter whether it is on lap 1, lap 19 or the last lap (and that is a general question and whilst yes there is an obvious answer, we are also not the ones racing)?



You will see that I have responded to Traverser with my opinion based upon the comments and readings and pictures of the incident - Stoner's move was 'not required' and ill timed.

 

[hawkdriver]

True Hawk and an interesting aside will be which fo teh two riders at HRC receive greater support as (IMO) with Stoner leaving they need to listen to him to see if his feedback matches Dani's, but act on Pedrosa's feedback in terms of ongoing development for 2013 (as I assume that MM is not going to ride the bike at some stage)

Very true and it'll be an interesting topic for the remainder of the season, as you say CS is a polarizing figure and I'm no fan of his, but I do feel slightly bad for him that his final season looks to be turning into a disaster and I'd rather the championship go down to the wire. I do think Dani's input is going to be the direction the bike goes in and Casey may end up suffering for it.

 

[michaelm]

He ...... up, pure and simple, and should say so. If he had brake problems he shouldn't have tried such a close quarters move. Bautista was in front on the track and is entitled to choose whatever line he wants regardless of whether he is inevitably going to be passed.



I believe stoner made a mistake with no malice involved but given how strongly he has criticised others for mistakes he has to cop it himself.

 

[Gaz]

Very true and it'll be an interesting topic for the remainder of the season, as you say CS is a polarizing figure and I'm no fan of his, but I do feel slightly bad for him that his final season looks to be turning into a disaster and I'd rather the championship go down to the wire. I do think Dani's input is going to be the direction the bike goes in and Casey may end up suffering for it.

A thought flicking in my non to bright boner-esque head is just how interesting the year will develop within the HRC squad if/as Stoner falls further behind in the points to both Lorenzo and more importantly Pedrosa as teh question will arise of whether Stoner will paly second fiddle from a team perspective.



In short, will he give Pedrosa points?



It is still to early as yet in the season but it will be a very interesting game that will be played out (one thing is for sure, Lorenzo does not have that to worry about

)

 

[birdman]

The standard boner party line. "To defend, compare".

I'm a neo boner and I didnt defend him, so who are you refering to? Michaelm? Nope, he's not defending. Gaz, no he said its Stoner at fault. BarryM? Nope busy with skiddy............

Arrabbiati has mercillesly flicked Stoner in a skid. You dont realise your arguing with no-one? Ok rub it in while you have the chance, it was a .... up followed by a half arsed apology from Stoner but still he could have simply shrugged and said this is racing.

 

[hawkdriver]

A thought flicking in my non to bright boner-esque head is just how interesting the year will develop within the HRC squad if/as Stoner falls further behind in the points to both Lorenzo and more importantly Pedrosa as teh question will arise of whether Stoner will paly second fiddle from a team perspective.



In short, will he give Pedrosa points?



It is still to early as yet in the season but it will be a very interesting game that will be played out (one thing is for sure, Lorenzo does not have that to worry about

)

I hadn't even thought of that as I figured CS was gonna pull the pin on his own grenade and be the cause of his own undoing. Poor Ben must be the unluckiest ....... on the grid, he supposedly .... himself during the race, talk about adding insult to injury.

 

[barbedwirebiker]

agreed but i can't see him sticking around much longer. Not if CRT is all he has to look forward too.

In a pre-race interview last night he said they will be testing something from Honda. Not sure if it's Honda engine in an existing frame or testing of the Honda built CRT bike. He also said he is enjoying testing new parts and was hanging around next tear to continue to do so.

 

[chopperman]

He ...... up, pure and simple, and should say so. If he had brake problems he shouldn't have tried such a close quarters move. Bautista was in front on the track and is entitled to choose whatever line he wants regardless of whether he is inevitably going to be passed.



I believe stoner made a mistake with no malice involved but given how strongly he has criticised others for mistakes he has to cop it himself.

Agree 100%

 

[chopperman]

In a pre-race interview last night he said they will be testing something from Honda. Not sure if it's Honda engine in an existing frame or testing of the Honda built CRT bike. He also said he is enjoying testing new parts and was hanging around next tear to continue to do so.

I hope so. The paddock just would not be the same without him. If you go to races and have been in the paddock you will have seen what a showman he is and how he gets the fans going with his jokes and T-Shirt air gun

It just doesn't look like he is enjoying himself at the moment.

 

[Zootalaws]

call me a fanboy and irrational, but i believe that if dani can put it on the podium,casey should be able to put it on the top step and fight with jorge.

and btw i respect pedrosa, i've got no hayden thing going on here

You're a fanboy and irrational (I'll get me coat...)

Seriously though, you are right - any track where Dani does well, Casey should also do well, but life isn't always as clear-cut. He had a heck of an off in practice, he could be banged up to heck. Things like that can make a difference when you are pushing hard.



Last year Dani beat Stoner at Portugal, Sachsenring and Motegi. I look at it more as an affirmation of just how good Pedrosa is rather than that he is the perennial bridesmaid.



I don't think he gets enough credit for his riding ability. Possibly because when he was young and callow he made a mistake that nearly cost his team-mate the championship.

 

[chopperman]

You're a fanboy and irrational (I'll get me coat...)

Seriously though, you are right - any track where Dani does well, Casey should also do well, but life isn't always as clear-cut. He had a heck of an off in practice, he could be banged up to heck. Things like that can make a difference when you are pushing hard.



Last year Dani beat Stoner at Portugal, Sachsenring and Motegi. I look at it more as an affirmation of just how good Pedrosa is rather than that he is the perennial bridesmaid.



I don't think he gets enough credit for his riding ability. Possibly because when he was young and callow he made a mistake that nearly cost his team-mate the championship.

According to Suppo, stoner had front and rear chatter where as ive not read anything about Dani's bike. Yes the bikes to all intent and purpose are the same. Yet different rider styles and set up make them very different when you measure in tenths.

 

[Pigeon]

mugello test times today 2013 bikes / upgrades having a run out

looks like Duc are well and truly fooked

btw Colin Manup enjoy an extended holiday

 

[chopperman]

mugello test times today 2013 bikes / upgrades having a run out

looks like Duc are well and truly fooked

btw Colin Manup enjoy an extended holiday

Not looking good so far. Are they testing the new engine?

 

[Pigeon]

Not looking good so far. Are they testing the new engine?

i think so that was the plan i've not looked to check it out

depending on the test results.it was planned to run it a laguna if all was looking good in this test



back to the drawing board ?

 

[cliche guevara]

why?they're only 0.3 off?