If you were Yamaha, who would you choose?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Nov 11 2009, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi:

1996 - 125 Learning Year
1997 - 125 Title
1998 - 250 Learning Year
1999 - 250 Title
2000 - 500 Learning Year
2001 - 500 Title
2002 - 990 Title (Note - No Learning Year on the RCV)
2003 - 990 Title
2004 - 990 Title
2005 - 990 Title
2006 - 990 P2 (No title and a non-learning year)
2007 - 800 Learning Year
2008 - 800 Title
2009 - 800 Title
2010 - 46/27 currently even odds to take the title

While everybody's arguing about the next Rossi, the current Rossi is still bringing home Championships.

There's no way Yamaha is letting him go. All the work done for Yamaha will be forgotten if #123 is on a red bike.

EDIT: forgot to note that '06 was cosmic justice for not taking a learning year in '02
Although technically 2002 and 2007 were learning years for Rossi, they were learning years for everyone. Completely different than his 1996 and 1998 seasons in my opinion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#22 @ Nov 11 2009, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if i'm not mistaken is doing as well, if not better in terms of stats than Rossi's earlier career? (I know Rossi was on 500's though, and did win the title in his 2nd year).

Not even close Bro! Rossi was 2nd in 2000 (on a Non-Factory "Factory" Ride) while Lorenzo was 4th in 2008 on a Factory Ride. Not to mention their second Season!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Nov 12 2009, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not even close Bro! Rossi was 2nd in 2000 (on a Non-Factory "Factory" Ride) while Lorenzo was 4th in 2008 on a Factory Ride. Not to mention their second Season!
Check my stats in the 'ducati should be better' thread if you need additional help with these clowns vh

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 12 2009, 01:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Although technically 2002 and 2007 were learning years for Rossi, they were learning years for everyone. Completely different than his 1996 and 1998 seasons in my opinion.

how so

because there was no such thing as a 990 or 800 grand prix bike before that time. they didn't exist. the first time Rossi swung his leg over one (after doing his little routine) was the first time for everyone else.

I chose Rossi. I mean you'd be an ..... to chose Lorenzo over him. If Stoner falls or gets sick Rossi will win the championship whereas Lorenzo wouldn't.

I didn't vote, because they both have their positives and negatives.

the negative about Rossi is that No one knows how long he will continue in Motogp or howlong will it take before he loses his 100 percent form.

the positive about Lorenzo is that he CAN be the next best thing and can take MANY championships for yamaha, BUT nobody can guarantee that he becomes a champion.

maybe if Rossi and J.B go from Yamaha, then they can never make another wining bike or maybe Lorenzo can never become a consistant player to beat Casey or Pedrosa or whoever on that year is his rival.

So it's a difficult choice for yamaha, but i only can say at this moment while Rossi is still wining and on a good form, they have to be really crazey to let him go, since they have to fight against

him then and maybe like Honda they win one year in 5 years, but i cant see that they let Rossi goes to another team even if Lorenzo and Spies win all the gp's of next year and Vale doesn't win a single one.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Nov 11 2009, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>how so
Just like Mastodon said, he was on level terms with everyone else. For me, a learning year is for rookies, excused time in order for a rider to adapt to a new series and to catch up with the field. If it's a learning year for the whole grid, that theory sort of goes out the window IMO.

No vote from me either, although I will throw some comments.

At some point in time sentimentality needs to be weighed up against the best interests of the business, whether contract time 2010 is that time or not is a discussion within itself, but no doubt the decision needs to be made on clear logical business grounds and not on heart strings.

For my way of thinking, Rossi provides the type of Return on Investment (ROI) that most businesses seek as he is both a media machine and one who can produce results, so he is multi dimensional and does provide the said ROI.

Lorenzo on the other hand is a bit of an unknown although, like Rossi he is producing results and is a media machine, just not yet at the level of Rossi.

So in short, Yamaha have two riders who both provide good ROI from a business viewpoint, so doubtless this will be a thought in the heads of the Yamaha executives if/when the time comes.

That said, at this stage it is also safe to say that to date the ROI of Rossi will continue long into the future, whereas the same cannot yet be said of Lorenzo as he is yet to have the longevity of career or the level of results. Although as a dual World Champion in his own right he is on the path, but still needs to achieve a large level of success within MotoGP to be spoken of in the same realms as is Rossi, and as such he at this stage in his career is behind in ROI terms.

But, the major deciding factor is likely to be economic as it is stated that Yamaha have suffered extremely large losses across the industry and as such one could suspect that money will be in short supply and it is 'how' short that supply may be that could prove the decisive factor.

There is little doubt that both Lorenzo and Rossi come with sponsorship dollars and likely fair to say that Rossi leads in this regard, so again it could be said that he provides the better option, but does he?

Yamaha at some point will need to start planning for the future and this does not just include riders but long term sponsors, which means they need to consider the impacts of a Rossi retirement on their sponsorship dollars (ie. will FIAT leave when Rossi leaves?). It is possible that longer term Lorenzo may be seen as the better option from a business view, although that is by no means certain as he has already displayed a propensity to 'shop around' but on the positive remained loyal for what is said to have been less money. Could he have fired a salvo?

Nope, for mine Yamaha have a tough, tough decision in choosing between Rossi and/or Lorenzo as both offer aspects that need to be considered from a business view.

There are a few interesting sidelines to all this however at the same time.

- If Rossi leaves - will Furosawa fall as well given his stance (and what of team VR)
- What is Furosawa's stance on Lorenzo
- Spies is very capable of throwing a large spanner if he gets good results as he could easily usurp Lornezo as an 'heir apparent' with good enough results

Nope, interesting times ahead for Yamaha and times they no doubt are not looking forward to as no matter which way they go, it seems a fair assumption that it will cost some mighty large dollars.







Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Nov 12 2009, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You all are taslking from the heart and not the future. First question you have to ask in this situation regarding these two is there a possibility of Lorenzo winnig a title against Rossi? IF you can say yes then the deal will be done for Lorenzo due to the fact he won't retire before Vale. If you keep it simple you will easily see this. How many years does each rider have in GP? I would say that Lorenzo will most likely be there longer based on everything that Vale has said about the length of time he has left in Gp and what he wants to do for the future must make a company think real hard about this choice. Vale will be on a Ducati before he retires. Plus he will win the title on it. In addition to that It will most likely be the most exciting season watched in many many years.
Keeps spinning that drivel to suit your bias ROCK...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Nov 12 2009, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nope, interesting times ahead for Yamaha and times they no doubt are not looking forward to as no matter which way they go, it seems a fair assumption that it will cost some mighty large dollars.
Gaz
Now if I was CEO or whomever-the fark's-in-charge-of-racing at Yamaha I would be delighted with the prospects available to me! Tough decision for sure but just to have the options they have is a corporate dream!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Nov 11 2009, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Check my stats in the 'ducati should be better' thread if you need additional help with these clowns vh

I will check’em out Talpa, thanks bro. I seem to never have time to read all the threads mate, and try to stick with the race related ones. Thanks again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Nov 11 2009, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nope, for mine Yamaha have a tough, tough decision in choosing between Rossi and/or Lorenzo as both offer aspects that need to be considered from a business view.

Gaz

There is a hundred Yellow Caps sold for each Red X Cap.
There is a hundred Yellow T-Shirts sold for each Red X T-Shirts.
There is a hundred Yellow Flags sold for each Red X Flag.
There is a hundred Yellow ... sold for each Red X ...

At each Race! (Including 3 in Spain).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 12 2009, 05:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Now if I was CEO or whomever-the fark's-in-charge-of-racing at Yamaha I would be delighted with the prospects available to me! Tough decision for sure but just to have the options they have is a corporate WET dream!!

Added a word (highlighted)

And agree totally - what an enviable position.





Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Nov 11 2009, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And agree totally - what an enviable position.

Gaz

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%<span style="color:#ff0000X

If Yamaha want to get punked around like ......., then they'll cave to the false choice. Both men r on contract. I doubt Rossi would simply refuse to race simply because Lorenzo remained his teammate. In 2011, if Rossi leaves, i'd say good bye. Yamaha hav treated him good and with respect. He is the one not being respectful. He didnt win .... 'alone'. He's acting like a .....!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Nov 12 2009, 05:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Yamaha want to get punked around like ......., then they'll cave to the false choice. Both men r on contract. I doubt Rossi would simply refuse to race simply because Lorenzo remained his teammate. In 2011, if Rossi leaves, i'd say good bye. Yamaha hav treated him good and with respect. He is the one not being respectful. He didnt win .... 'alone'. He's acting like a .....!

I feel the same way unfortunately. I like Rossi but I'm really having a hard time siding with him here. The fact of the matter is that Rossi has a factory ride. He seems to want someone who is incapable of winning on his team. Factory bikes are for guys who can win. If Rossi would like to be paired with someone that cannot win than perhaps he should request that Yamaha move him to the Tech 3 squad where he can work with a rookie in 2011. Lorenzo and Spies on the factory bikes for 2011 sounds good to me.

I don't think it's even remotely mature for Rossi to demand that Yamaha field an uncompetitive rider on their second bike simply to appease him. He should know better. Yamaha should give him the Tech 3 team. Let him do as he wishes there and leave the factory team for guys who want to win and compete earnestly.

I know you've been disappointed about ten years, except 2006 . Poor you

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Nov 12 2009, 05:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Yamaha want to get punked around like ......., then they'll cave to the false choice. Both men r on contract. I doubt Rossi would simply refuse to race simply because Lorenzo remained his teammate. In 2011, if Rossi leaves, i'd say good bye. Yamaha hav treated him good and with respect. He is the one not being respectful. He didnt win .... 'alone'. He's acting like a .....!

Its easy, Rossi for Financial reasons, but if you look at the race results this year, in the races where rossi and lorenzo both finished, Vale wins 8-3, so Rossi i think is still the better racer, oh yeah and he won the championship, got the most pole positions etc..... the other main reason to keep Rossi is to keep developing the bike ready for the next superstar.
i expect after Rossi goes, it will be Spies and Pedrosa at Yamaha, with Lorenzo on a Honda.
i think if spies can run at the front he will be a huge marketing gem for yamaha, more so than lorenzo

If I were Yamaha, I'd first try to understand why Rossi does not want Lorenzo as a teammate. The answer is not trivial... !

I think the reason why Rossi does not want Lorenzo cannot be reduced to the fact that nobody likes fast teammates. And of course he realizes that all his work on the bike etc. will have to be passed on to some young champion(s) who can continue winning titles for Yamaha...

Knowing Rossi's sensitivity to the human factor in all things, I'd say he would rather like to have as teammate and "successor" someone of his choosing, and of his liking. Irrespectively of being "fast" because to become his heir, a young rider has not only to be fast, but one of the very fastest

I am pretty sure Rossi wants to have Simoncelli in Yamaha in 2011, for example. That does explain his current battle against Lorenzo much better. He is paving the way for his friend into Yamaha!

If I were Yamaha, I would look into this really well. They already have Spies, and Rossi will never object to him, imo. Simoncelli and Spies would guarantee a strong Yamaha team even without Lorenzo (and, after 2 or 3 years, even without Rossi).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Nov 12 2009, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If Yamaha want to get punked around like ......., then they'll cave to the false choice. Both men r on contract. I doubt Rossi would simply refuse to race simply because Lorenzo remained his teammate. In 2011, if Rossi leaves, i'd say good bye. Yamaha hav treated him good and with respect. He is the one not being respectful. He didnt win .... 'alone'. He's acting like a .....!

+1

If it's were strictly a case of marketing potential - then Rossi it is.

And what the hell - his tantrums aside - he still seems to be in his prime
- so I'd offer him renewals - one year at a time, assuming Lorenzo's
replacement would be Big Ben.

If on the other hand Rossi insists on shoe-horning loose cannon Simon-smelli in
as replacement for Lorenzo - then I'd say hell no and show him the door.

I said it last week and I'll say it again; I doubt Burgess is ready to take on development
of the Ducati, given the change of staff, technology and Ducati's overall arrogant
attitude towards "employees" - and at this late stage in the game Rossi isn't going
anywhere without JB. So it's all a lot of hot air.

Hey - just realized - this is post # 1002.