How will Marc Marquez do in 2024?

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How will Marc Marquez fare on the Gresini Ducati in 2024?

  • Win the championship

    Votes: 8 20.5%

  • Fighting for the championship, multiple wins

    Votes: 17 43.6%

  • A few wins

    Votes: 12 30.8%

  • No wins

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Worse than 2023

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • Total voters
    39
michaelm said:
Same for me, I was never an emotionally invested fan but thought he was a great rider, very possibly the greatest. I blamed an element among his fandom for what the likes of Biaggi, Gibernau, Hayden and then Stoner copped, but 2015 demonstrated he was pretty much orchestrating everything.
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Maybe he is bored with it and the sports car racing is providing enough of an interest for him.

Hard to knock his academy though, it has been spectacularly successful, having produced a dual motogp world champion and other race winners, and with Italian riders to boot against the Spanish domination of the premier class for the last 15 years. Arguably the academy has been more successful in recent years than the Red Bull rookie thing with all its resources.
 
Back on topic (kinda). Some interesting news. The Gresini rider coach will also be coaching the factory riders.

Conflict of interest? One Ducati employee to work with Marquez and Bagnaia

Manuel Poggiali has a new role of coach to the factory Ducati riders, in addition to his existing job of coaching Gresini’s riders.
It creates the possibility that he will have access to data from two separate garages, each with top riders fighting for the MotoGP title.

“Honestly, the situation is a little different,” Poggiali said to Corsedimoto.

“Meanwhile, being a professional, I know well what my tasks are.

“I respect them with the utmost spirit of sharing as well as data analysis which already exists in Ducati and has been underway for some time. “With my activity I will do nothing but bring enrichment to this sector by working directly and in particular with Ducati Factory and Gresini.
 
#22 said:
Back on topic (kinda). Some interesting news. The Gresini rider coach will also be coaching the factory riders.

Conflict of interest? One Ducati employee to work with Marquez and Bagnaia

Manuel Poggiali has a new role of coach to the factory Ducati riders, in addition to his existing job of coaching Gresini’s riders.
It creates the possibility that he will have access to data from two separate garages, each with top riders fighting for the MotoGP title.

“Honestly, the situation is a little different,” Poggiali said to Corsedimoto.

“Meanwhile, being a professional, I know well what my tasks are.

“I respect them with the utmost spirit of sharing as well as data analysis which already exists in Ducati and has been underway for some time. “With my activity I will do nothing but bring enrichment to this sector by working directly and in particular with Ducati Factory and Gresini.
Click to expand...
Interesting, saw that on crash as well.

I guess shows that Gigi is running things and committed to data sharing which has always been his policy and perhaps a significant contributor to the success of Ducati in recent years. Also maybe a gesture of encouragement to Gresini and MM who may have the option of decamping to Red Bull/KTM in future.

If anything you would think this should help MM more than the factory riders, particularly given the riding coach guy is a Gresini employee, and the factory guys will be riding a new bike but have ridden the 2023 bike obviously. If MM comes up with a new riding wrinkle this might be hard for others to replicate based on historical precedent anyway. .
 
Last edited:
To your final point. Bastianinni already said that Marquez was doing things in turn 8 that no other Ducati rider had been (apparently he was using less brake and carrying more corner speed iirc)
 
#22 said:
To your final point. Bastianinni already said that Marquez was doing things in turn 8 that no other Ducati rider had been (apparently he was using less brake and carrying more corner speed iirc)
Click to expand...
I had been wondering how different these bikes were even in comparison with bikes only a few seasons ago when Mir and FQ won, but I guess MM’s smile the first time he got off the Ducati spoke for a lot as both his new engineer and the Gresini manager said.
 
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Marky Mark on the Duke is gonna be interesting indeed. He’s been through the grinder the last few years, but, if the fire is still burning, he’s gonnae be a threat. Fast as feck and utterly fearless, he’s coming oot swinging. Could end in tears, could be a wet squib or he could clear off with the title. Last few years have been pretty much whoever gets a handle on the best bike wins the race. It needs a shake up and hopefully the wee ....... can bring the noise. All good for us!!
 
I don't see him being able to push the front way over the level of traction and stay on board like he could previously.
It feels like the aero and ride height controls have been implemented, at least partially, to negate that separation of ability the Marccwas able to display to great success.
It was Ducati that he denied for the title for several years and it was largely Ducati where they were implemented.
It will, be interesting to see how he goes but given he is on last years bike he is going to miss out on developments/improvements to some extent as the season progresses. It will be very hard to keep any advantage if he develops one as they will clearly see through the data where he has it.
 
I’m looking forward to seeing what he does on it. If the electronics and aero do negate the riders ability to the extent you say, then I’ll switch off again. I’m not and never been a Marky Mark fan, but the fact is, he raised the bar from the Rossi, Lorenzo Stoner era and absolutely owned it.
 
Have to agree with Stoner.

Casey Stoner wants MotoGP to “get rid of all” the advanced technology he feels is making the sport a championship for engineers rather than riders.
The 2007 and 2011 world champion, famous for his throttle control, added: “Put it back in the riders’ hands. Let them move a bit. Let them make mistakes. Let them slide.
“At the moment, the engineers control everything they do.
“Get rid of it all! It’s pretty simple. We’re letting engineers create their own dreams but it’s not about the engineers.”
Stoner warned that the ‘rise of the machines’ means the only area where riders can make a difference is the braking point, leading to accidents.
“The only thing they can make a difference with is the braking point on entry, everything else is regulated,” Stoner told TNT Sports.

“It’s harder to modulate now with the winglets [putting pressure on] the front tyre. You’ve got load on [the front tyre] constantly, so you’re not able to make as much of a difference.
“There are so many aspects that people aren’t understanding. It’s a big reason for why I got out. The way it was going took the enjoyment out of it for me.
“Riding a motorbike is an art. Now these guys don’t control [as many elements as in the past]. Out of a corner you’ve got 280 horsepower, you can twist the throttle full, and it won’t throw you off or wheelie.

www.crash.net

Casey Stoner criticises tech: “Put it back in the riders’ hands, let them slide”

Casey Stoner wants MotoGP to “get rid of all” the advanced technology he feels is making the sport a championship for engineers rather than riders.
www.crash.net www.crash.net

https://speedcafe.com/casey-stoner-motogp-rider-aids-half-this-....-needs-to-go/
 
warthog1 said:
I don't see him being able to push the front way over the level of traction and stay on board like he could previously.
It feels like the aero and ride height controls have been implemented, at least partially, to negate that separation of ability the Marccwas able to display to great success.
It was Ducati that he denied for the title for several years and it was largely Ducati where they were implemented.
It will, be interesting to see how he goes but given he is on last years bike he is going to miss out on developments/improvements to some extent as the season progresses. It will be very hard to keep any advantage if he develops one as they will clearly see through the data where he has it.
Click to expand...
Yes Gigi reputedly runs everything at Ducati, and he seems to be an engineer of the old style Honda variety who considers riders an inconvenience who interfere with his engineering solutions. He was quite annoyed for the years he thought the bike was good enough to win but the riders weren’t. I doubt the current direction was aimed at MM specifically though.

Bagnaia and Martin do seem to manage to be consistently faster than other Ducati riders however. Taking a line through Bezzecchi who won 3 races and to a lesser extent his brother you would think MM could at least be competitive on a 1 year old bike , particularly after being fast at the post season test. Nakamoto early in his premier class career said he had faster reflexes than Casey Stoner, so i guess one question is how his reflexes at age 31 compare with those of Bagnaia and Martin, and whether he can apply them in the first place in the presence of aero. It is hard for me at least to know if his speed in the lower classes was down to the riding the front differently as well. If he does find a riding edge it is not a given other Ducati riders will be able to emulate him, and I would bet on him to approach limits such as braking limits at least as much as any other rider. If the bike lets go capriciously as Bagnaia and Martin have implied at times that will obviously be a problem for him as well though.
 
2023 saw M Marquez have 29 crashes, the highest number of any rider in all 4 classes. 2nd= was Mir and Canet on 24 which points at the bike particularly that both Honda riders missed quite a few rounds. A Marquez was the worst Ducati rider with 21 crashes.

So for 2024 what's the guess on the number of crashes that M Marquez has? I'm going to guess 24 crashes.
 
warthog1 said:
I don't see him being able to push the front way over the level of traction and stay on board like he could previously.
It feels like the aero and ride height controls have been implemented, at least partially, to negate that separation of ability the Marccwas able to display to great success.
It was Ducati that he denied for the title for several years and it was largely Ducati where they were implemented.
It will, be interesting to see how he goes but given he is on last years bike he is going to miss out on developments/improvements to some extent as the season progresses. It will be very hard to keep any advantage if he develops one as they will clearly see through the data where he has it.
Click to expand...
Be interesting (albeit unlikely) if the 2 factory Ducati's + Martin have some issues (mechanical, crashes, injuries etc) in the early to mid season and Marquez (or any rider on a 2023 Ducati) along with 2-4 KTMs and 2 Aprilias were battling it out for the championship to see what Ducati would do. If it was close and their other guys were out of contention for whatever reason, would the Ducati engineers then get parts for Marc or others on the 23 bike?
I know it isn't going to happen, would just love to see how Ducati would react. Past history says they will throw everything they can at a bike that can win them the championship at the detriment to their other riders (IMO) but that has always been a factory bike.
 
michaelm said:
Yes Gigi reputedly runs everything at Ducati, and he seems to be an engineer of the old style Honda variety who considers riders an inconvenience who interfere with his engineering solutions. He was quite annoyed for the years he thought the bike was good enough to win but the riders weren’t. I doubt the current direction was aimed at MM specifically though.

Bagnaia and Martin do seem to manage to be consistently faster than other Ducati riders however. Taking a line through Bezzecchi who won 3 races and to a lesser extent his brother you would think MM could at least be competitive on a 1 year old bike , particularly after being fast at the post season test. Nakamoto early in his premier class career said he had faster reflexes than Casey Stoner, so i guess one question is how his reflexes at age 31 compare with those of Bagnaia and Martin, and whether he can apply them in the first place in the presence of aero. It is hard for me at least to know if his speed in the lower classes was down to the riding the front differently as well. If he does find a riding edge it is not a given other Ducati riders will be able to emulate him, and I would bet on him to approach limits such as braking limits at least as much as any other rider. If the bike lets go capriciously as Bagnaia and Martin have implied at times that will obviously be a problem for him as well though.
Click to expand...
No its not the full story, but yes it helps keep the front wheel on the deck and adds downforce presumably in the corners a little as well. It has enabled the Ducati to get into a corner better and to use its power advantage better by keeping the front wheel on the deck.
Yes a side effect has been that increased load means the front end slide is now more of a precipice.
I believe part of the reason for the front wing was to improve corner entry and part of the need for that was down to Marquez.
 
p4p1 said:
Be interesting (albeit unlikely) if the 2 factory Ducati's + Martin have some issues (mechanical, crashes, injuries etc) in the early to mid season and Marquez (or any rider on a 2023 Ducati) along with 2-4 KTMs and 2 Aprilias were battling it out for the championship to see what Ducati would do. If it was close and their other guys were out of contention for whatever reason, would the Ducati engineers then get parts for Marc or others on the 23 bike?
I know it isn't going to happen, would just love to see how Ducati would react. Past history says they will throw everything they can at a bike that can win them the championship at the detriment to their other riders (IMO) but that has always been a factory bike.
Click to expand...
It's certainly an interesting question. Ducati have said publicly, that they will never stop a satellite squad beating the factory, but it's easy to say that when you aren't faced with it (yet)

Ducati “will never stop” its MotoGP satellite teams beating factory squad

What's interesting to me, is Bastiannini finished 3rd in 2022, not a million miles from Bagnaia (46 points). Yet his season was pretty inconsistent. He won the first and fourth race of the season, and finished 10th and 11th in between. After his final win in Argon he seemed to get a bit more consistently at the pointy end but prior to that it was wins or barely in the top 10. Yet he still finished 3rd in the championship. Ok, it isn't 2022 anymore, but it is hard to believe that Marquez won't at least be consistent on the Gresini.

I'm also curious to see how Bagnaia reacts if he has a swarm of competitors to deal with. In his 2 title seasons he has only had 1, and had the advantage of stablemates either directly helping him (in the case of Miller) or racing him with kid gloves. I think IF Marquez was offered a 2025 factory Ducati contract, he'd probably take it. But equally, he will likely have other options too so won;t be worried about poking the bear.
 
warthog1 said:
I don't see him being able to push the front way over the level of traction and stay on board like he could previously.
Click to expand...

What if he doesn't have to? I think I've said this before but what if Marc comes to grips with Ducati's aero package and the rest of the bike in general and is able to adjust his riding style to suit the bike? This would make him very dangerous, competitively speaking. I've rooted against Marc in the past, not because I dislike him but because he was so dominating. Now I am hoping he comes back strong and ups the ante for Pecco and Jorge.
 
#22 said:
It's certainly an interesting question. Ducati have said publicly, that they will never stop a satellite squad beating the factory, but it's easy to say that when you aren't faced with it (yet)

Ducati “will never stop” its MotoGP satellite teams beating factory squad

What's interesting to me, is Bastiannini finished 3rd in 2022, not a million miles from Bagnaia (46 points). Yet his season was pretty inconsistent. He won the first and fourth race of the season, and finished 10th and 11th in between. After his final win in Argon he seemed to get a bit more consistently at the pointy end but prior to that it was wins or barely in the top 10. Yet he still finished 3rd in the championship. Ok, it isn't 2022 anymore, but it is hard to believe that Marquez won't at least be consistent on the Gresini.

I'm also curious to see how Bagnaia reacts if he has a swarm of competitors to deal with. In his 2 title seasons he has only had 1, and had the advantage of stablemates either directly helping him (in the case of Miller) or racing him with kid gloves. I think IF Marquez was offered a 2025 factory Ducati contract, he'd probably take it. But equally, he will likely have other options too so won;t be worried about poking the bear.
Click to expand...
short of extreme conspiracy theories it looked like they were going to let Martin win last season.
 
PRS717 said:
What if he doesn't have to? I think I've said this before but what if Marc comes to grips with Ducati's aero package and the rest of the bike in general and is able to adjust his riding style to suit the bike? This would make him very dangerous, competitively speaking. I've rooted against Marc in the past, not because I dislike him but because he was so dominating. Now I am hoping he comes back strong and ups the ante for Pecco and Jorge.
Click to expand...
I too remember the season MM won with the bad shoulder when the Honda probably wasn’t the best bike and he was remorselessly consistent until the title was sealed, mostly finishing second and more rarely third if he didn’t win.

I am not much of a Bagnaia fan, but he deserves credit for delivering in the races at the end of his title winning seasons. FQ absolutely threw away the 2022 title, and Martin was also in a position to win the 2023 title. Bagnaia was peeved iirc about other Ducatis taking points from him in 2022, but I guess his foe was a Yamaha rider that year.

I am not sure what Ducati will do, but man management has not always been their forte and Bagnaia has not been sufficiently favoured to get signed for years ahead.

Bagnaia and Martin are young and undoubtedly fast, as are other Ducati riders, so it will be difficult for MM if the 2024 bike is significantly better. Unless Ducatis really do just fail capriciously as Bagnaia and Martin have implied at times it is possible MM can ride more consistently near the edge as he has done previously even if this requires a different adapted method.
 
warthog1 said:
No its not the full story, but yes it helps keep the front wheel on the deck and adds downforce presumably in the corners a little as well. It has enabled the Ducati to get into a corner better and to use its power advantage better by keeping the front wheel on the deck.
Yes a side effect has been that increased load means the front end slide is now more of a precipice.
I believe part of the reason for the front wing was to improve corner entry and part of the need for that was down to Marquez.
Click to expand...
Sure I get your point now, Gigi may well have and perhaps sadly designed his bike not to be beatable by MM’s method wtth the aero giving the Ducati advantageous characteristics at the front by engineering/mechanical means. He won’t have designed and probably can’t design a bike that MM can’t ride but others can, and the post season has already pretty much demonstrated that the 2023 bike is not anathema to him.
 

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