How will Marc Marquez do in 2024?

Motorsport comments section is where all the trolls went when Crash.net closed their comments section. It is really a cesspit of sub-human scum for the most part on there which is why I stick to posting here.

michaelm said:

Some rather negative comments,

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Yes, the internet brings out the best in people.

The summary of what's been said since he is no longer under Honda contract;
1. Adapted to the bike quicker than expected
2. Focus is now on consistency rather than extra speed

BTW the lap that got him 3rd in the one day test was done on new soft tyres. Not trying to take away from that 3rd in the test, more so I'm thinking how quickly he had adapted, put different tyres on and he was able to extract the benefit of those tyres despite being his first day on the different bike with a completely different team of engineers etc.

3. Ducati is less physical, he mentioned.

One of the things I do not want to hear going into 2024. "Marc Marquez takes to Twitter to Announce Wedding Plans"

I just finished watching and reliving the 2013 season. Marc finished his maiden race third, riding cautiously, losing only to the dominant Yamaha factory duo. And this dominance wasn't about to last. Next race was COTA, by now we know how well he goes there, but back then it was not highly expected. Then in Le Mans Marc rode the big bike in wet, very first time for him. His performance was hectic, but he finished the race (third!), many didn't. Commentator had no words for Marc's ride, he just said: "Marc practically crashed [again], situation normal". LOL
In short, it was an extraordinary rookie season, it stands out.

He won the title in his rookie season. No one in the Motogp/4 stroke era has done that. People play it down that he was on the best bike, but he beat his highly experienced team mate, and the better Yamaha bike with Lorenzo on it.

I'm watching 2014 now, Marc just completed 10 race winning streak. Last man to do it was Doohan on a 500cc two-stroke, methinks, 1997 maybe? Too lazy to look up. Lorenzo and Pedrosa continue as main opponents, joined by that yellow actor. Interestingly enough 2013 Yamaha was faster in hands of Lorenzo, in 2014 the situation reversed.
Considering current super tight contention repeating 10 race hot streak is plain impossible, won't happen.

2015 Marc didn't win, but peculiarly decided the victor (watch two last races). If you ever need to set up a MotoGP quiz, here is a question:
MotoGP races and titles are won or lost on Sundays. Who is the rider who lost his title on Thursday?

Segfault said:

2015 Marc didn't win, but peculiarly decided the victor (watch two last races). If you ever need to set up a MotoGP quiz, here is a question:
MotoGP races and titles are won or lost on Sundays. Who is the rider who lost his title on Thursday?

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Depends where you think Rossi's "natural" finishing place in those two races was, I don't see anything other than two 4th placings myself, the corollary being he gained a net 3 points from his contretemps with MM at Sepang.

I guess it is possible Lorenzo might have finished 3rd at Valencia 2015 without MM's influence, but MM had been admonished by the stewards not to interfere with a contender in that race after the Sepang race, one of the odder instructions issued by RD over my time following the sport particularly given the finding by them that MM had committed no riding infraction at Sepang. So along those lines/making those assumptions regarding MM's influence gives Rossi the title by a one point margin, said margin due to MM passing Lorenzo on the last lap to win the PI 2015 race, a race he allegedly tanked..

When Rossi said Marc took his title he was correct, he knew it and so did Marc. What Rossi did not say was he asked for it in Thursday press conference. He was playing with force bigger than him and he lost, got crushed.

When I watch Sepang then I do not see Marc racing, I see him pestering Rossi. Big time. He achieved what he wanted, Rossi blew his top. This whole game is not hard to see if you know what you are looking for and if you are not partial to any party of this. Marc could have passed Rossi and ride into sunset, he was running circles around Rossi instead. This did not look like racing ... because it wasn't. Marc passed Rossi and slowed down, blocking Rossi. When Rossi managed to slip thru Marc repeated the cycle. Marc did all that without breaking rules.

In Valencia Marc was clearly guarding Lorenzo. Have you ever seen Marc following a rider whole race without making an attempt to pass? Watch Valencia 2015. When his I-ride-for-myself teammate Pedrosa tried to interfere Marc pushed him back with authority, even Pedrosa understood this game is not for him and did not try second time.
If you can ride a bike and if you have done some racing then you should see all that. If not, well, none of my business, really. I'm not here to convince anybody.

Have a nice day.

Segfault said:

When Rossi said Marc took his title he was correct, he knew it and so did Marc. What Rossi did not say was he asked for it in Thursday press conference. He was playing with force bigger than him and he lost, got crushed.

When I watch Sepang then I do not see Marc racing, I see him pestering Rossi. Big time. He achieved what he wanted, Rossi blew his top. This whole game is not hard to see if you know what you are looking for and if you are not partial to any party of this. Marc could have passed Rossi and ride into sunset, he was running circles around Rossi instead. This did not look like racing ... because it wasn't. Marc passed Rossi and slowed down, blocking Rossi. When Rossi managed to slip thru Marc repeated the cycle. Marc did all that without breaking rules.

In Valencia Marc was clearly guarding Lorenzo. Have you ever seen Marc following a rider whole race without making an attempt to pass? Watch Valencia 2015. When his I-ride-for-myself teammate Pedrosa tried to interfere Marc pushed him back with authority, even Pedrosa understood this game is not for him and did not try second time.
If you can ride a bike and if you have done some racing then you should see all that. If not, well, none of my business, really. I'm not here to convince anybody.

Have a nice day.

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I just said all that, if Rossi doesn’t make those accusations in the Thursday Sepang press conference he might have won the title by 1 point, ironically prevailing because MM passed Lorenzo on the last lap at PI, the race concerning which Rossi made his accusations, thereby, depriving Lorenzo of 5 points. Imo and that of others it was all about Rossi not wanting to arrive at Valencia, a bogey track for him, in a position where Lorenzo could win the title by winning the race and/or finishing ahead of him in the top four

Of course MM rode differently at Sepang 2015 after the Sepang press conference, I consider it likely he rode at PI 2015 in a fashion which by his standards was intended not to interfere with the contenders, then took the win when it was available on the last lap. Like you I consider his riding at Sepang 2015 was a demonstration to Rossi of what MM interfering with a contender looked like. My point was that MM did not ride illegally, it was pretty much a re-creation of Motegi 2010 actually imo, a contest between Lorenzo and Rossi for 3rd and 4th when finishing 3rd would have clinched the title for Lorenzo. The stakes then were much less of course, Jorge was pretty much assured of winning the title at the next round after Pedrosa was injured in the race concerned. My other point was that MM and Rossi would likely imo have finished 3rd and 4th at Sepang 2015, particularly if you and Rossi are correct that MM was faster than him, so Rossi eventually punting MM gained him 3 points. Jorge chose not to punt Rossi at Motegi 2010 btw.

Sure I can see a case for MM protecting Jorge at Valencia 2015, but Valencia is a notoriously one line track. Absolutely MM would have made a passing attempt if he was in a position to win the title by doing so, but this would not have been without risk imo, which MM had ironically been specifically admonished not to take. You are also assuming Lorenzo would have finished 3rd without “protection” from MM btw, the only way Rossi could have won the title by finishing 4th after showing no sign of being other than the 4th fastest rider all weekend.

Also btw I don’t need anyone to tell me how either the Sepang 2015 or Valencia 2015 races unfolded, I watched them live and remember them vividly as is my wont.

michaelm said:

Depends where you think Rossi's "natural" finishing place in those two races was, I don't see anything other than two 4th placings myself, the corollary being he gained a net 3 points from his contretemps with MM at Sepang.

I guess it is possible Lorenzo might have finished 3rd at Valencia 2015 without MM's influence, but MM had been admonished by the stewards not to interfere with a contender in that race after the Sepang race, one of the odder instructions issued by RD over my time following the sport particularly given the finding by them that MM had committed no riding infraction at Sepang. So along those lines/making those assumptions regarding MM's influence gives Rossi the title by a one point margin, said margin due to MM passing Lorenzo on the last lap to win the PI 2015 race, a race he allegedly tanked..

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Marquez's action in the Sepang race are so overblown. If you watch the race, Rossi attacks Marquez at the very next corner no matter where Marquez overtakes. It disrupts both of their rhythms, Rossi was just as guilty for the crime of racing as Marquez was. Without kicking Marquez off his bike there is no way Rossi comes third in that race. He should have been disqualified, but clearly wasn't so there was still a chance for Rossi to take the title. From a marketing stand point, Rossi wins from the back row, its incredible, even with everything against him, he still manages to win the title. All hail the GOAT etc. He loses the title, well it's not really his fault, he was cheated etc.

If Rossi gets 4th at Sepang and has no back of the grid start, he comes in the final round on 306 points to Lorenzo's 305 points. Lorenzo has to beat Rossi by one point at one of his strongest tracks. Rossi has to beat Lorenzo at a track he hadn't won at since 2004. That wasn't going to happen.

Watching the race from memory, the issue Marquez had, whether he wanted to pass Lorenzo or not was that the Honda couldn't get any drive out of the corners which meant he wasn't in a position to overtake Lorenzo. I am sure if it was a straight fight between him and Lorenzo he would have risked it to make a pass and get it to stick, but he had no such motivation, nor did he want to take Lorenzo out and hand Rossi the title.

What cost Rossi the title was that after getting a lot of luck and a lot of things go his way in 2015 was that as the season go towards the end he couldn't maintain his the results from earlier in the season that helped. Every championship requires some luck of things going your way that are out of your control. Any rider just needs to take advantage of that when they happen. For example, without Lorenzo's injuries in 2013 it is very debatable whether Marquez would have won the title that year.
Rossi had luck before the season even start with Honda ....... up their engine and/or chassis that resulted in both factory riders having struggles throughout the season.
Rossi had a dream run of circumstances in the first 3 rounds:
the inside of Lorenzo's helmet coming loose and affecting his vision at Qatar going a long way to causing him to finish 4th.
Marquez running off the track at Qatar causing him to finish 5th.
Pedrosa not starting rounds 2-4 at a time when being on a factory Honda or Yamaha almost guaranteed a top 4 finish.
Marquez choosing the wrong tyre in Argentina and/or the wrong strategy when Rossi was catching him.

Lorenzo wins the next 4 rounds but Rossi still has a decent amount of luck that helps him mitigate the damage:
Marquez crashed out in 2 of the next 4 races. From memory he was in front of Rossi but behind Lorenzo
Dovi has a mechanical at Mugello, when that was one of the few tracks Ducati could compete with factory Honda/Yamaha.
Pedro misses round 4, crashes in round 5 and is probably not at full fitness at the time.

Rossi got the win at Assen, it is debatable whether he should have been demoted from 2nd or not.
Without any luck involved really, Rossi got very strong results from rounds 9-12. The 5 races from round 8-12 where crucial in Rossi maintaining his advantage in the championship.
At Misano, both Rossi and Lorenzo engaged in a game of cat and mouse when it started raining at the second weather change. Lorenzo sat behind Rossi daring him to make the first move. Lorenzo made the first move and pitted first while Rossi had to do an extra lap on the wets losing time. Both had realistically missed the boat to challenge for the race win but whether purposefully or not, Rossi's decision to stay out there thus making Lorenzo stay out there for a lap or two longer than he should have ensured that if Lorenzo beat him h2h then he would lose a minimal amount of points. Lorenzo then crashed to help Rossi stretch his points lead to 23 points. If Lorenzo goes into Aragon 12 points down instead or 23, the title fight shapes up a lot different. Tactical brilliance from Rossi or a stroke of luck? Either way tactical blunder from Lorenzo.
Rossi only beats Lorenzo h2h once for the rest of the season. Marquez helps Rossi at Aragon by crashing out early, without the crash it is likely Rossi loses a further 3 points when demoted to 4th.
Rossi has a meltdown over PI and fails to realise Marquez, whether intentionally or not has done him a huge favour by beating Lorenzo. If Lorenzo has those extra 5 points he going into Valencia leading the championship, he isn't losing from there. Rossi removes any motivation Marquez had for taking risks to beat Lorenzo at Valencia or Malaysia.

This ended up way longer than I planned. I don't have much to do at work right now.


Interestingly I did just read a comment - Giacomo Agostini told Italian sports newspaper La Gazzetta dello Sport that Rossi had fallen into Márquez's trap which led him to believe he was the more intelligent rider and that the reaction given to him by Márquez during the race was an expected one, "I'm convinced that Valentino was angry, exhausted and frustrated, but until that turn it had been a great fight. But Valentino was surprised. He is a great professional."
The exhausted part interests me the most. Clearly Rossi's move was out of desperation but I didn't think that it could have been because fatigue was setting in. I hadn't considered the fatigue factor, and Marquez believing or knowing that if it comes down to a duel between him and Rossi that he can outlast Rossi in the Malaysian heat.

Marquez also knew in a head to head duel with Rossi he could simply outride him, as he consistently showed.
A comparison between them whilst racing together Marquez is capable of doing stuff with the front end of a motorcycle Rossi could not dream of doing. Able to slide both ends of the bike better in fact but the front end, nobody else was even close to being able to do.

p4p1 said:

Marquez's action in the Sepang race are so overblown. If you watch the race, Rossi attacks Marquez at the very next corner no matter where Marquez overtakes. It disrupts both of their rhythms, Rossi was just as guilty for the crime of racing as Marquez was. Without kicking Marquez off his bike there is no way Rossi comes third in that race. He should have been disqualified, but clearly wasn't so there was still a chance for Rossi to take the title. From a marketing stand point, Rossi wins from the back row, its incredible, even with everything against him, he still manages to win the title. All hail the GOAT etc. He loses the title, well it's not really his fault, he was cheated etc.

If Rossi gets 4th at Sepang and has no back of the grid start, he comes in the final round on 306 points to Lorenzo's 305 points. Lorenzo has to beat Rossi by one point at one of his strongest tracks. Rossi has to beat Lorenzo at a track he hadn't won at since 2004. That wasn't going to happen.

Watching the race from memory, the issue Marquez had, whether he wanted to pass Lorenzo or not was that the Honda couldn't get any drive out of the corners which meant he wasn't in a position to overtake Lorenzo. I am sure if it was a straight fight between him and Lorenzo he would have risked it to make a pass and get it to stick, but he had no such motivation, nor did he want to take Lorenzo out and hand Rossi the title.

What cost Rossi the title was that after getting a lot of luck and a lot of things go his way in 2015 was that as the season go towards the end he couldn't maintain his the results from earlier in the season that helped. Every championship requires some luck of things going your way that are out of your control. Any rider just needs to take advantage of that when they happen. For example, without Lorenzo's injuries in 2013 it is very debatable whether Marquez would have won the title that year.
Rossi had luck before the season even start with Honda ....... up their engine and/or chassis that resulted in both factory riders having struggles throughout the season.
Rossi had a dream run of circumstances in the first 3 rounds:
the inside of Lorenzo's helmet coming loose and affecting his vision at Qatar going a long way to causing him to finish 4th.
Marquez running off the track at Qatar causing him to finish 5th.
Pedrosa not starting rounds 2-4 at a time when being on a factory Honda or Yamaha almost guaranteed a top 4 finish.
Marquez choosing the wrong tyre in Argentina and/or the wrong strategy when Rossi was catching him.

Lorenzo wins the next 4 rounds but Rossi still has a decent amount of luck that helps him mitigate the damage:
Marquez crashed out in 2 of the next 4 races. From memory he was in front of Rossi but behind Lorenzo
Dovi has a mechanical at Mugello, when that was one of the few tracks Ducati could compete with factory Honda/Yamaha.
Pedro misses round 4, crashes in round 5 and is probably not at full fitness at the time.

Rossi got the win at Assen, it is debatable whether he should have been demoted from 2nd or not.
Without any luck involved really, Rossi got very strong results from rounds 9-12. The 5 races from round 8-12 where crucial in Rossi maintaining his advantage in the championship.
At Misano, both Rossi and Lorenzo engaged in a game of cat and mouse when it started raining at the second weather change. Lorenzo sat behind Rossi daring him to make the first move. Lorenzo made the first move and pitted first while Rossi had to do an extra lap on the wets losing time. Both had realistically missed the boat to challenge for the race win but whether purposefully or not, Rossi's decision to stay out there thus making Lorenzo stay out there for a lap or two longer than he should have ensured that if Lorenzo beat him h2h then he would lose a minimal amount of points. Lorenzo then crashed to help Rossi stretch his points lead to 23 points. If Lorenzo goes into Aragon 12 points down instead or 23, the title fight shapes up a lot different. Tactical brilliance from Rossi or a stroke of luck? Either way tactical blunder from Lorenzo.
Rossi only beats Lorenzo h2h once for the rest of the season. Marquez helps Rossi at Aragon by crashing out early, without the crash it is likely Rossi loses a further 3 points when demoted to 4th.
Rossi has a meltdown over PI and fails to realise Marquez, whether intentionally or not has done him a huge favour by beating Lorenzo. If Lorenzo has those extra 5 points he going into Valencia leading the championship, he isn't losing from there. Rossi removes any motivation Marquez had for taking risks to beat Lorenzo at Valencia or Malaysia.

This ended up way longer than I planned. I don't have much to do at work right now.


Interestingly I did just read a comment - Giacomo Agostini told Italian sports newspaper La Gazzetta dello Sport that Rossi had fallen into Márquez's trap which led him to believe he was the more intelligent rider and that the reaction given to him by Márquez during the race was an expected one, "I'm convinced that Valentino was angry, exhausted and frustrated, but until that turn it had been a great fight. But Valentino was surprised. He is a great professional."
The exhausted part interests me the most. Clearly Rossi's move was out of desperation but I didn't think that it could have been because fatigue was setting in. I hadn't considered the fatigue factor, and Marquez believing or knowing that if it comes down to a duel between him and Rossi that he can outlast Rossi in the Malaysian heat.

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I agree with most of this, except with your arithmetic. Lorenzo won by 5 points after scoring 25 points for 1st while Rossi scored 13 for 4th at Valencia 2015, gaining 12 net points on Rossi, and hence trailed by 7 points going into Valencia, which would have been 4 if Rossi had finished 4th at Sepang, as he would have imo and yours had he not punted MM, rather than 3rd. Lorenzo finishing 3rd with Rossi 4th would still have given Rossi the title by my calculation in that circumstance. With Rossi leading by 7 points as he did Rossi and Lorenzo tie if Lorenzo finishes 2nd and Rossi 4th, with Lorenzo winning the title on the basis of more race wins.

Rossi rode an excellent season particularly given his age in 2015, and as you say took advantage of circumstances which went his way for much of the season as many title winners have done, including a number of wet races in which he was definitely better than Lorenzo, to his credit of course. He would have been a worthy world title winner had he won as was my opinion at the time when he looked like winning, which was prior to that Sepang press conference of course. However ultimately he was not fast enough at the end of the season when circumstances turned against him, and actually lost critical points by not being able to beat Pedrosa and Iannone rather than MM, who actually correctly said Lorenzo was the rider Rossi needed to beat rather than him. A healthy Pedrosa was in no way obliged to not race Rossi, nor was MM obliged to continue to throw his bike down the road as he had done 6 times prior to PI 2015 iirc, and the racing gods bestow wet races as they will. I have always had a theory that PI 2015 taught MM a different way to win other than dominating every lap which he employed to win future titles.

Oooh we are back to talking about Sepang 2015!

Segfault said:

2015 Marc didn't win, but peculiarly decided the victor (watch two last races). If you ever need to set up a MotoGP quiz, here is a question:
MotoGP races and titles are won or lost on Sundays. Who is the rider who lost his title on Thursday?

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That's an excellent quiz question, but would no doubt draw as much debate as 'Trump didn't lose the 202 election'.

As others have noted. Marquez was admonished by both Rossi fans and the stewards (oddly, as noted by Michael M) for 'racing a championship contender' in Sepang. Yet when he acquiesced in Valencia, they cried 'Why DIDN'T he race a championship contender?!'

As has been discussed countless times on here. It was a classic case of Rossi ...... around and found out. The new generation were faster (mainly because Rossi was older, but I think both Lorenzo and Marquez would have beaten prime Rossi) and most crucially, impervious to his mind games that worked on so many of his rivals in the past.
The PI accusations were nothing but desperation, and surmised best when Lorenzo was asked if Marc Marquez helped him. "Yes, especially on the last lap".

michaelm said:

Depends where you think Rossi's "natural" finishing place in those two races was, I don't see anything other than two 4th placings myself, the corollary being he gained a net 3 points from his contretemps with MM at Sepang.

I guess it is possible Lorenzo might have finished 3rd at Valencia 2015 without MM's influence, but MM had been admonished by the stewards not to interfere with a contender in that race after the Sepang race, one of the odder instructions issued by RD over my time following the sport particularly given the finding by them that MM had committed no riding infraction at Sepang. So along those lines/making those assumptions regarding MM's influence gives Rossi the title by a one point margin, said margin due to MM passing Lorenzo on the last lap to win the PI 2015 race, a race he allegedly tanked..

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I agree about Rossi, he would have finished 4th in Sepang and Valencia. Especially over the 2nd hald of the season, he simply was not as quick as the Repsol Honda duo and his team mate. After his final with in Great Britain, his average finishing position was 3.5. Lorenzo, by contrast, had an average of 1.5, 2 wins and was never off the podium again that season.

As noted, the variable is MM's influence in Valencia. As you noted, RD had already effectively told him not to interfere with the title contenders in Valencia, and who knows what penalties he could have suffered the following season had he done so.

Segfault said:

When Rossi said Marc took his title he was correct, he knew it and so did Marc. What Rossi did not say was he asked for it in Thursday press conference. He was playing with force bigger than him and he lost, got crushed.

When I watch Sepang then I do not see Marc racing, I see him pestering Rossi. Big time. He achieved what he wanted, Rossi blew his top. This whole game is not hard to see if you know what you are looking for and if you are not partial to any party of this. Marc could have passed Rossi and ride into sunset, he was running circles around Rossi instead. This did not look like racing ... because it wasn't. Marc passed Rossi and slowed down, blocking Rossi. When Rossi managed to slip thru Marc repeated the cycle. Marc did all that without breaking rules.

In Valencia Marc was clearly guarding Lorenzo. Have you ever seen Marc following a rider whole race without making an attempt to pass? Watch Valencia 2015. When his I-ride-for-myself teammate Pedrosa tried to interfere Marc pushed him back with authority, even Pedrosa understood this game is not for him and did not try second time.
If you can ride a bike and if you have done some racing then you should see all that. If not, well, none of my business, really. I'm not here to convince anybody.

Have a nice day.

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Marc grew up idolising Rossi. That is documented. When Rossi publicly called out not only Marc, but his mother by calling her a liar, it enraged Marc and I don't blame him. It's a classic case of ...... around and found out.
Marc has confessed he is a 'bastard' when he gets his helmet on. It's part of why he has been so successful. I don't disagree that he was pestering Rossi or attempting to show him what really interfering with a rider looks like, but the standards have to be applied across the board. Rossi had long been praised for his aggressive riding style and overtakes such as Laguna 2008, Jerez 2005 etc. He also pestered his team mate in Motegi 2010 who was in contention for the title when he wasn't, it was only luck that he didn't cause Lorenzo or both to crash.

michaelm said:

Of course MM rode differently at Sepang 2015 after the Sepang press conference, I consider it likely he rode at PI 2015 in a fashion which by his standards was intended not to interfere with the contenders, then took the win when it was available on the last lap. Like you I consider his riding at Sepang 2015 was a demonstration to Rossi of what MM interfering with a contender looked like. My point was that MM did not ride illegally, it was pretty much a re-creation of Motegi 2010 actually imo, a contest between Lorenzo and Rossi for 3rd and 4th when finishing 3rd would have clinched the title for Lorenzo. The stakes then were much less of course, Jorge was pretty much assured of winning the title at the next round after Pedrosa was injured in the race concerned. My other point was that MM and Rossi would likely imo have finished 3rd and 4th at Sepang 2015, particularly if you and Rossi are correct that MM was faster than him, so Rossi eventually punting MM gained him 3 points. Jorge chose not to punt Rossi at Motegi 2010 btw.

Sure I can see a case for MM protecting Jorge at Valencia 2015, but Valencia is a notoriously one line track. Absolutely MM would have made a passing attempt if he was in a position to win the title by doing so, but this would not have been without risk imo, which MM had ironically been specifically admonished not to take. You are also assuming Lorenzo would have finished 3rd without “protection” from MM btw, the only way Rossi could have won the title by finishing 4th after showing no sign of being other than the 4th fastest rider all weekend.

Also btw I don’t need anyone to tell me how either the Sepang 2015 or Valencia 2015 races unfolded, I watched them live and remember them vividly as is my wont.

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Wow, sorry Mike. I wrote my comments above before seeing your post and realise we have basically written the same thing!

p4p1 said:

Marquez's action in the Sepang race are so overblown. If you watch the race, Rossi attacks Marquez at the very next corner no matter where Marquez overtakes. It disrupts both of their rhythms,

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Ahh but that is what makes Rossi so great. Remember his modus operandi of 'Disrupt riders, overtake them as soon as they pass you' that commentators, reporters and fans alike continually praised, especially after Laguna 2008?
Lo and behold, when a young upstart comes in, who idolised Rossi and based his racing on him, and does the same thing, they are all up in arms.

Hypocrites, the lot of them.

warthog1 said:

Marquez also knew in a head to head duel with Rossi he could simply outride him, as he consistently showed.
A comparison between them whilst racing together Marquez is capable of doing stuff with the front end of a motorcycle Rossi could not dream of doing. Able to slide both ends of the bike better in fact but the front end, nobody else was even close to being able to do.

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Repeated in Sepang 2018.

michaelm said:

I have always had a theory that PI 2015 taught MM a different way to win other than dominating every lap which he employed to win future titles.

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I agree. The 2015 season matured him measurably.

^^ That is a good backstory/summary thanks.
I have never really got into the politics of MotoGP. I am there for the racing.
Unfortunately it is a strategy used.
I have never seen anyone use fan pressure overtly like Rossi did. I am glad both Jorge and Marc were aware of the motive and able to rise above it so well. It was pleasing (to say the least) to see them come out on top despite that ugliness.
Interesting that even after stopping racing VR still persists to an extent.
Firmly disliked by me as a result despite his ability as a bike racer.

Fox are voting for MM

warthog1 said:

^^ That is a good backstory/summary thanks.
I have never really got into the politics of MotoGP. I am there for the racing.
Unfortunately it is a strategy used.
I have never seen anyone use fan pressure overtly like Rossi did. I am glad both Jorge and Marc were aware of the motive and able to rise above it so well. It was pleasing (to say the least) to see them come out on top despite that ugliness.
Interesting that even after stopping racing VR still persists to an extent.
Firmly disliked by me as a result despite his ability as a bike racer.

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Same for me, I was never an emotionally invested fan but thought he was a great rider, very possibly the greatest. I blamed an element among his fandom for what the likes of Biaggi, Gibernau, Hayden and then Stoner copped, but 2015 demonstrated he was pretty much orchestrating everything.

I started losing respect for him after reading his biography. Stuck me as being a spoiled brat and 2015 showed that to be true.

Interestingly, I was listening to the latest the-race podcast recently and they were saying that the VR46 academy is drying up. The main reason for its formation was for Rossi to have riders and buddies to ride at his ranch with supposedly but now he is doing that less, there is no need for new talent.