hondas pneumatic will race at mugello

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 18 2008, 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WHY? His problem were not power, he passed several Yamahas on power, only to be passed on the brakes. Maybe what he really want is pnumatic brakes, Give it to him I say.

Power may not be the bikes weakeast area, but it would make his life easier if he could achieve the same laptime without pushing the tyres so much, and could rely less on brealing tomake passes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlexdeAngelis-Fan @ May 18 2008, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>on German Eurosport the commentators said Pedrosa don´t want the pneumatic engine!

so we will see!

Honda should consider for Hayden, if Pedrobot doesn't want.. I think HRC is smart enough to decide

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (V5Stroker @ May 19 2008, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Honda should consider for Hayden, if Pedrobot doesn't want.. I think HRC is smart enough to decide



First thing first...Honda love to dominate, and they one way they can do it is by ensuring all customers and factory riders have the best bikes....so If HRC develop 1 bike for Nicky with the pneumatics then they have to take a different develop direction than the rest of their riders...inclusing and especially Dani which is not likely to happen....

If HRC develop in more than one direction then their customers lose out, and HRC will need their customers to win the title this year as the year goes on.....see Yamaha for how to treat customers right...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 18 2008, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dani's weight has been flattering both the bike and him and speed wise that put him at least on equal terms as the Yamahas. If you didn't see how he passed or allmost passed Rossi on power several times today we wern't watching the same race. I know my tv was showing Le Mans Live, what were you watching? There was absolutly nothing wrong with the power on that bike. But sure, give him a huge enough advantage and even he might win a championship, but as a fan of spaniards I would put my money on Jorge if I were you.
Also check the Le Mans speed trap, it's in trun 1, right where his heavy chatter started. I bet he had the speed and power but not the chassi to reach the maximum at the speed trap.
How much of that was power and how much was grip and gearing to maximize exit speed and acceleration? Is Le Mans particularly taxing on power?

I wonder who it will help the most?
cough cough faggotdrosa cough cough

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ May 19 2008, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How much of that was power and how much was grip and gearing to maximize exit speed and acceleration? Is Le Mans particularly taxing on power?

When you fall behind as normal when exiting the curve and later take over on power on the shortest straight in the season then it's not a matter of optimizing much better than the other one, it's about a much better power/weight ratio, nothing else.

As Le Mans isn't particulary taxing on power then it's all the more revealing when it actually make an impact, don't you think.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ May 17 2008, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its working for the title leader... why change direction right now?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Duc999 @ May 17 2008, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The new bike may help the 2006 champ, Dovisioso, DeAngelis, DePuniet etc....


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ May 17 2008, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It may but if I remember correctly the customer were not going to get the pneumatic power bike at all this year...and as for the 'first customer' rider he would get it once Dani is happy with its progess for his riding style....IMO.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ May 17 2008, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can understand why you are miffed, but you have to keep in mind Honda history....they are not a nice company, riders win because of the bike not the rider....so nothing should shock when it come to HRC...
Do you think Nicky knows he is getting shafted, and if so what should he do?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ May 19 2008, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First thing first...Honda love to dominate, and they one way they can do it is by ensuring all customers and factory riders have the best bikes....so If HRC develop 1 bike for Nicky with the pneumatics then they have to take a different develop direction than the rest of their riders...inclusing and especially Dani which is not likely to happen....

If HRC develop in more than one direction then their customers lose out, and HRC will need their customers to win the title this year as the year goes on.....see Yamaha for how to treat customers right...

1. Do Honda want to dominate completely or just let Dani dominate then worry about the others?
2. These next 4 races are going to put Dani in his place whether it be title leader, contender or not at all. After Le Mans do you think Honda are going to think twice now that Dani is not the title leader?
3. Why would the customer not get the pnuemo engine?
4. Do you think that Honda developed that 2007 bike with everyone in mind?

IMO Its kind of contradictory to say that that Honda is going to do whatever it takes to get Dani happy, AND then say that Honda will not develope in one direction because all will profit. Honda is getting their ... whipped by Yamaha and Dani is not going to win the championship. What would you do?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 19 2008, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Do Honda want to dominate completely or just let Dani dominate then worry about the others?
Honda want to dominate and have Dani win win win

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 19 2008, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2. These next 4 races are going to put Dani in his place whether it be title leader, contender or not at all. After Le Mans do you think Honda are going to think twice now that Dani is not the title leader?
Nope, HRC will think of Dani as they only hope at the title and they owe it to him after 2006/7

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 19 2008, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>3. Why would the customer not get the pnuemo engine?
They were not scheduled to get any significant upgrades, and definitely not the new engine....according to the TV pundits on Eurosport and other rags

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 19 2008, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>4. Do you think that Honda developed that 2007 bike with everyone in mind?
Yes, Honda develops bike for anyone to be great at....since it is not the rider that wins its the bike underneath them (why do you think Rossi left HRC?...to prove them wrnog)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 19 2008, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>IMO Its kind of contradictory to say that that Honda is going to do whatever it takes to get Dani happy, AND then say that Honda will not develope in one direction because all will profit. Honda is getting their ... whipped by Yamaha and Dani is not going to win the championship. What would you do?

Dani, unfortunately, has a great shot at the title...especially, while Yamaha have Jorge and Vale taking points away from each other....Dani can just sit there and take a few victories here and there and split the Yamaha pair on the podium to be right up there ready to strike for the title in the last 2 races....

No doubt Dany is HRC hope for this year title contender, but after Le Mans I don't think Dany can win the championship this year without the new bike(pneumatic valves engine). If Dany cannot win in China (where it's a neutral track for tire and bike power) and Le Mans then where else he can win..Muggelo? this is Rossi track..maybe in German..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 19 2008, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Power may not be the bikes weakeast area, but it would make his life easier if he could achieve the same laptime without pushing the tyres so much, and could rely less on brealing tomake passes.

Sure, give him a bike that fly away from the competition. I'm sure everyone would like a bike like that, but thankfully we don't have that right now and they all have to trust their teams skill to set the bike up right and then they still have to ride better than the others to win. Is that so bad?

Just because Dani's honda could keep up with rest in Le Mans does not mean it can on the larger tracks. Le Mans is probably one of the tightest tracks -- called Go Kart track by Stoner. Ofcourse, Dani's weight advantage helps his bike accelerate faster than most of the other hondas. Also, it could be that they are gearing Dani's bike lower just so that it would accelerate faster (at the expense of top speed). Dani himself said so in China that the bike was overrvving down the straightsl

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ May 20 2008, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just because Dani's honda could keep up with rest in Le Mans does not mean it can on the larger tracks. Le Mans is probably one of the tightest tracks -- called Go Kart track by Stoner. Ofcourse, Dani's weight advantage helps his bike accelerate faster than most of the other hondas. Also, it could be that they are gearing Dani's bike lower just so that it would accelerate faster (at the expense of top speed). Dani himself said so in China that the bike was overrvving down the straightsl

He didn't keep up, he was visibly faster, and that even showed on a tight track!
But as you say it's more due to his low weight than extreme power. In other words, the short tracks are a good show case as on the longer straights things level out as the air resistnace increase.

I doubt, no, I know they are not willing to let it overrev by purpose. They got it wrong in china due to the strong back winds and he paid for that on the long back straight.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (V5Stroker @ May 20 2008, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No doubt Dany is HRC hope for this year title contender, but after Le Mans I don't think Dany can win the championship this year without the new bike(pneumatic valves engine). If Dany cannot win in China (where it's a neutral track for tire and bike power) and Le Mans then where else he can win..Muggelo? this is Rossi track..maybe in German..


Dani is as big a chance as anyone to win the title.
Le Mans was the first time he had been off the podium and he came 4th in the end despite tyre issues.
If they can make their Pneumatic valve engine work for them quickly, then he will be even faster.
Big mistake to write him off now.
By the way Mugello has not only been a Vale track but it's been a Michelin track.
Dani & Jorge will be pretty darn quick there I think.
Mugello isn't over yet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 19 2008, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>3. Why would the customer not get the pnuemo engine?

There are tons of reasons not to give your best tech to the customers.

1. It pisses off your title sponsor.
2. It hampers the ability of your contender to win a title.
3. Even two riders on the same equipment can nearly ruin it for one another (2006)

Why in God's name would they give it to the customer. In reality everyone at Honda is out of contention other than Dani. Honda don't want to ring up Dovi and tell him to quit interfering with the factory riders. He's as close to Pedrosa as Repsol care for him to get.

Honda have a history of keeping customers on B class equipment. I don't suspect they will change unless Dovi becomes the new Melandri/Gibby.

The game you've proposed is really interesting though. What's more important to Honda? Having one man at or towards the top while their squad is humiliated or running the best equipment that allows them to horde points as a team/manufacturer?

Interesting.

Do they even have a chance to beat Yamaha at the team or manufacturer level?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 20 2008, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There are tons of reasons not to give your best tech to the customers.

1. It pisses off your title sponsor.
2. It hampers the ability of your contender to win a title.
3. Even two riders on the same equipment can nearly ruin it for one another (2006)

Why in God's name would they give it to the customer. In reality everyone at Honda is out of contention other than Dani. Honda don't want to ring up Dovi and tell him to quit interfering with the factory riders. He's as close to Pedrosa as Repsol care for him to get.

Honda have a history of keeping customers on B class equipment. I don't suspect they will change unless Dovi becomes the new Melandri/Gibby.

The game you've proposed is really interesting though. What's more important to Honda? Having one man at or towards the top while their squad is humiliated or running the best equipment that allows them to horde points as a team/manufacturer?

Interesting.

Do they even have a chance to beat Yamaha at the team or manufacturer level?

For the same damn reason that Yamaha gave it to theirs. I agree Dovi could take some points away from Dani but none of the other riders could, yes? So Hoonda doesn't want to kick ... they jsut want one rider to kick ...? I mean really, what the .... are you talking about? Honda I already hate honda, but I don't think that they want to be humiliated like they are.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ May 21 2008, 09:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dani is as big a chance as anyone to win the title.
Le Mans was the first time he had been off the podium and he came 4th in the end despite tyre issues.
If they can make their Pneumatic valve engine work for them quickly, then he will be even faster.
Big mistake to write him off now.

As I mentioned somewhere earlier there are three main contenders for this year championship: Vale,J.Lorenzo & Dani...but HRC need to provide Dani with Pneumatic Valve engine for him to have a go..Even without the new Engine , he may win in Germany, Donninton and Valencia but not in F1 circuits or other circuit which require max power from the engine and top speed in excess of 320km/hr..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 21 2008, 03:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do they even have a chance to beat Yamaha at the team or manufacturer level?

Not the way Hayden's riding so far

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ May 20 2008, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So Hoonda doesn't want to kick ... they jsut want one rider to kick ...? I mean really, what the .... are you talking about? Honda I already hate honda, but I don't think that they want to be humiliated like they are.

Of course Honda only wants one rider to kick .... If they gave a damn about scoring maximum points they would give their best stuff to everyone. Don't ask me to explain it, I don't run the team.

I can tell the idea of one rider scoring points while everyone sucks is completely counterintuitive to you--it is to me as well. But you have to realize it is the strategy they've chosen for 2 seasons now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 20 2008, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not the way Hayden's riding so far

Firstly Hayden's riding has been subpar this year he's nearly binned it on two race days.

But can we be serious for a second?

How do you expect a 70 kg rider to make time on an underpowered bike? He can't carry more speed through the turns than Pedrosa and he can't get the bike stood up while he's trying not to slow down at the apex.

Colin said getting the new pneumatic valve engine was the best thing for his career. The bike is now configured for maximum traction, and Colin can hammer on the breaks all the way to the apex. Hayden surely needs the same thing to be able to reproduce good results.

Hayden needs at least another 10 kph on the top and another 10 hp throughout the entire rev range.

Autosport article about Nicky

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67592