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Honda threatens to quit MotoGP

povol said:
Bingo, Bingo, and Bingo. These so called morally evolved elitist, dont seem to understand evolution.Weird!
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What's ever really evolved in motogp. Fine tuning it not really evolving is it? It's supposed to be prototype racing but its only prototype as in you cant buy the exact model.

What the difference between an R1 and an M1? Not enough to be called a prototype imo. You see more prototypes in the I.O.M TT with the electric bikes.
 
chopperman said:
What's ever really evolved in motogp. Fine tuning it not really evolving is it? It's supposed to be prototype racing but its only prototype as in you cant buy the exact model.

What the difference between an R1 and an M1? Not enough to be called a prototype imo. You see more prototypes in the I.O.M TT with the electric bikes.
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I guess since man stood upright, his evolution stopped. We have just been fine tuning the last 4 million years. Of course fine tuning is evolving.



Everything, there is not a production piece on an M1.
 
povol said:
I guess since man stood upright, his evolution stopped. We have just been fine tuning the last 4 million years. Of course fine tuning is evolving.



Everything, there is not a production piece on an M1.
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Yeah because Otto cycle engines, telescopic forks, chain drive ect ect is all new prototype stuff. Very original
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Just look back when we had the Elf honda with the hub steering twin wishbone. The Norton Wankel, kawasaki mono .... ect. The only prototype ive seen in recent times was Ducati and their carbon frame. Before 06 so i doubt you have ever heard of them !
 
chopperman said:
Yeah because Otto cycle engines, telescopic forks, chain drive ect ect is all new prototype stuff. Very original
<
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this



props to ducati for actually trying the carbon fibre chassis,but i think it was first experimented with 25 or so years ago
 
Yeah because Otto cycle engines, telescopic forks, chain drive ect ect is all new prototype stuff. Very original
<




Just look back when we had the Elf honda with the hub steering twin wishbone. The Norton Wankel, kawasaki mono .... ect. The only prototype ive seen in recent times was Ducati and their carbon frame. Before 06 so i doubt you have ever heard of them !



I agree there is nothing radical coming through moto gp just evolution,when it went 4st the engine side moved quickly for a while but has now reached a platue,i loved the 70/80s for radical solutions as you say elf honda and many others had fantastic ideas but these ideas dont sell on road bikes so the factorys dont stray to far from the norm but CRT may change that and we may see some brilliant engineering again, Britten vr1000 anyone
<
 
thedeal said:
Yeah because Otto cycle engines, telescopic forks, chain drive ect ect is all new prototype stuff. Very original
<




Just look back when we had the Elf honda with the hub steering twin wishbone. The Norton Wankel, kawasaki mono .... ect. The only prototype ive seen in recent times was Ducati and their carbon frame. Before 06 so i doubt you have ever heard of them !



I agree there is nothing radical coming through moto gp just evolution,when it went 4st the engine side moved quickly for a while but has now reached a platue,i loved the 70/80s for radical solutions as you say elf honda and many others had fantastic ideas but these ideas dont sell on road bikes so the factorys dont stray to far from the norm but CRT may change that and we may see some brilliant engineering again, Britten vr1000 anyone
<
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Yes the Britten was an inspiration. Premier GP racing was never about selling bikes, take the 500 2 stokes as proof of this. WSB was more the show case of bikes you could buy and their potential.

It just goes to show how the face of our sport has changed. I used to be all about building and racing stuff for the future. Now it's just a tuned re-badged version of what you can buy. Motogp, wsb,CRT, all based on the same ideas.
 
chopperman said:
Yes the Britten was an inspiration. Premier GP racing was never about selling bikes, take the 500 2 stokes as proof of this. WSB was more the show case of bikes you could buy and their potential.

It just goes to show how the face of our sport has changed. I used to be all about building and racing stuff for the future. Now it's just a tuned re-badged version of what you can buy. Motogp, wsb,CRT, all based on the same ideas.
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But it is about selling bikes now thats why they look like there road bikes, i know honda were the driving force behind the move to 4st but even yamaha and suzuki said there gp two strokes had no relation to there road bikes so were ok with the move,but crt might be cool as they are not selling road bikes.
 
cliché guevara said:
and except for the brake and clutch lever there isn't on a wsbk r1
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To start with, there is no R1 in WSBK, and secondly, you desperately need to read the FIM regs for Superbike. There are many parts that have to stay as bike was homologated.
 
thedeal said:
But it is about selling bikes now thats why they look like there road bikes, i know honda were the driving force behind the move to 4st but even yamaha and suzuki said there gp two strokes had no relation to there road bikes so were ok with the move,but crt might be cool as they are not selling road bikes.
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The result of the world now being run by bean counters. Good for profit, bad for sport. I suppose this is a result of tobacco money going out of motorsport. They had the money from tobacco but know need to focus this sport on sales to compensate.

There will be many here who have known me a long time that are going to jump on me for contradicting myself from my stance years ago. Guilty .
 
povol said:
To start with, there is no R1 in WSBK, and secondly, you desperately need to read the FIM regs for Superbike. There are many parts that have to stay as bike was homologated.
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it was meant to illustrate my opinion that wsbk is almost as far from stock machines as gps.also i remember a couple of now yamaha gp guys racing there in the not too distant past.why they didn't let a private team do a crescent kind of thing is beyond me, the r1 was a real weapon compared to the gixxer

IMO superbikes should really be much more close to what we know as superstock, at the moment wsbk really is the cheaper version of gps.

makes you think though, i'd be all for allowing the wsbk factory machines in gps as CRTs
 
povol said:
To start with, there is no R1 in WSBK, and secondly, you desperately need to read the FIM regs for Superbike. There are many parts that have to stay as bike was homologated.
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Thats look at the both bikes, homoligation or not.

M1.

4 stroke double overhead cam, 5 valve per cylinder. reciprocating valves and pistons. cross-plane crank

Telescopic front forks

head stock triple tree steering

mono shock rear

deltabox frame.



Now the R1.

4 stroke double overhead cam, 5 valve per cylinder. reciprocating valves and pistons. cross-plane crank

Telescopic front forks

head stock triple tree steering

mono shock rear

chain drive

deltabox frame.

lights horn and a number plate



The only real difference is some of the materials used and the state of tune. Now list a wsb bike compared to the road going version. It will look prety similar to the list above. Prototype my ....... arse !
 
This is what CRT should be,free and lateral thinking with tobacco abd booze cash.
 

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thedeal said:
This is what CRT should be,free and lateral thinking with tobacco abd booze cash.
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Not sure where you live but if you ever venture to the New forest, go to Sammy millers musiem. Last time i went they had some old gp bikes there. The true prototypes.
 
Thanks chopper,i live 30 mins away and have known and been involved with Sammy for 20 years,a very cool guy with an even cooler colection.
 
thedeal said:
Thanks chopper,i live 30 mins away and have known and been involved with Sammy for 20 years,a very cool guy with an even cooler colection.
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Not to far from me then. Im in southampton. Last time i went to sammy millers he had from memory, A sheen 500, The mono-.... Kwak and the great morbedeli V8 gp bike.
 
chopperman said:
Thats look at the both bikes, homoligation or not.

M1.

4 stroke double overhead cam, 5 valve per cylinder. reciprocating valves and pistons. cross-plane crank

Telescopic front forks

head stock triple tree steering

mono shock rear

deltabox frame.



Now the R1.

4 stroke double overhead cam, 5 valve per cylinder. reciprocating valves and pistons. cross-plane crank

Telescopic front forks

head stock triple tree steering

mono shock rear

chain drive

deltabox frame.

lights horn and a number plate



The only real difference is some of the materials used and the state of tune. Now list a wsb bike compared to the road going version. It will look prety similar to the list above. Prototype my ....... arse !
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<
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The only difference between a NASCAR and F1 is some of the materials and state of tune. Nice generalization. Oh, and they both roll around on black rubber thingies.
 
povol said:
<
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The only difference between a NASCAR and F1 is some of the materials and state of tune. Nice generalization. Oh, and they both roll around on black rubber thingies.
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As usual you miss the point by a mile. Lay off the weed mate, its turning you into a right goon. So what if an engine cover is made out of some space age alloy, its still a ....... engine cover. Doesn't make it a prototype bike imo.
 
chopperman said:
Thats look at the both bikes, homoligation or not.

M1.

4 stroke double overhead cam, 5 valve per cylinder. reciprocating valves and pistons. cross-plane crank

Telescopic front forks

head stock triple tree steering

mono shock rear

deltabox frame.



Now the R1.

4 stroke double overhead cam, 5 valve per cylinder. reciprocating valves and pistons. cross-plane crank

Telescopic front forks

head stock triple tree steering

mono shock rear

chain drive

deltabox frame.

lights horn and a number plate



The only real difference is some of the materials used and the state of tune. Now list a wsb bike compared to the road going version. It will look prety similar to the list above. Prototype my ....... arse !
Click to expand...



Which year are you referring to? I believe they did away with the 5 valves per cylinder when they went with the cross plank.
 

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