Honda threatens to quit MotoGP

HEISMAN · Jun 18, 2012

thedeal said:
This is what CRT should be,free and lateral thinking with tobacco abd booze cash.

I like your thinking. I'll also add this as well. GP engine wrapped in a custom built frame. What I think CRT should go if manufacturers and engine builders will supply prototype engines to teams (at a lesser cost than leasing a bike obviously).

povol · Jun 18, 2012

chopperman said:
What ever. The point still stands regardless of how many valves.

Or even how they are actuated huh.

Mental Anarchist · Jun 18, 2012

chopperman said:
What ever. The point still stands regardless of how many valves.

No matter how many times it is pointed out you are wrong you are still right.

chopperman · Jun 18, 2012

povol said:
Or even how they are actuated huh.

What, springs or desmo

And even if the 1000's are still using pneumatic it's hardly revolutionary these days is it.

Now the Norton rotary valve was revolutionary in its day. Even the old black bomber torsion system was more revolutionary than what our so called prototypes have today. There all just sticking to what they know because there scared to try new thing (prototype) in case it doesn't work.

Only Ducati have tried in modern times.

Mental Anarchist · Jun 18, 2012

The conversation is remarkable.

Complain that the sport is not prototyping or revolutionary whilst at the same time complaining about the very core component that is prototyping and revolutionary.

Electronics are truly revolutionary. Look back 10 years and it was basically just FI. The sport applied prototype electronics and revolutionised motorcycles right down to even adventure bikes that now have different maps for different situations, TC and all sorts of electronics. Even my carb'd dirt bike has a button that I can push that changes the power delivery for trick situations.

What you dinosaurs are arguing for is no prototyping and no revolution. You are all just scared of change and living in the past.

I suggest you go and watch stock racing or better still, vintage racing because that is where you are living.

chopperman · Jun 18, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
The conversation is remarkable.

Complain that the sport is not prototyping or revolutionary whilst at the same time complaining about the very core component that is prototyping and revolutionary.

Electronics are truly revolutionary. Look back 10 years and it was basically just FI. The sport applied prototype electronics and revolutionised motorcycles right down to even adventure bikes that now have different maps for different situations, TC and all sorts of electronics. Even my carb'd dirt bike has a button that I can push that changes the power delivery for trick situations.

What you dinosaurs are arguing for is no prototyping and no revolution. You are all just scared of change and living in the past.

I suggest you go and watch stock racing or better still, vintage racing because that is where you are living.

That's your argument

ok i will agree the track plotting tc is revolutionary. Remind me who's using it ? :;lol:

Mental Anarchist · Jun 18, 2012

So who is using the Norton rotary valve and the black bomber torsion system? Will be waiting for the link to a modern bike that has either of those on their spec sheet.

You are so selective in your argument. Picking out one single component of a very complex system is really quite pathetic as an argument. If they took away GPS then do you honestly believe the whole electronics system would cease to work.

For someone who has allegedly followed the sport so long you always seem to fail when it comes to arguing a point and we are expected to just except you are right despite easily being able to point out where you are wrong.

chopperman · Jun 18, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
So who is using the Norton rotary valve and the black bomber torsion system? Will be waiting for the link to a modern bike that has either of those on their spec sheet.

You are so selective in your argument. Picking out one single component of a very complex system is really quite pathetic as an argument. If they took away GPS then do you honestly believe the whole electronics system would cease to work.

For someone who has allegedly followed the sport so long you always seem to fail when it comes to arguing a point and we are expected to just except you are right despite easily being able to point out where you are wrong.

You and pov have posted your opinions ,as have I and many others. You have not proved anything though other than your arrogance.

Mental Anarchist · Jun 18, 2012

Ok so I take it by your lack of backing up your argument that prototype and revolutionary stuff that doesn't filter through to production bikes is good but prototype and revolutionary stuff that does is bad.

You call me arrogant because I have a point of view and back it up with a sound argument that you are not able to refute but some how you are not arrogant because you have a point of view that not just me but others have put forth an argument as to why it may be incorrect and you fail to be able to carry it through yet we are just meant to believe you because you are you. Quality.

thedeal · Jun 19, 2012

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]What you dinosaurs are arguing for is no prototyping and no revolution. You are all just scared of change and living in the past.[/font]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Thats not what im saying at all, there are many ways to build a competetive chassis without the safe twin spar concept and as CRT wont be selling road bikes im hoping we see some other solutions,you know proper prototyping like Ducati had before Rossi turned up.[/font]

cliche guevara · Jun 19, 2012

i still find it funny that all of the road relevant,that is safety relevant, electronic aids were not first introduced by the gp manufacturers

BarryMachine · Jun 19, 2012

Rog. why are you citing all this stuff that failed! Sure it was tried but it failed. The current top Yamahas and Hondas are the pinnacle of the evolution that has occurred over many years.

Current evolution is heavily electronics centered. And we are seeing it on road bikes as it is being developed.

Zootalaws · Jun 19, 2012

hawkdriver said:
Those expensive metals go into the engines and they'd still be used...

But if no-one could use them, they wouldn't be, would they? They would be making reliable engines in other ways - by smarter engineering.

And I wasn't talking so much about the engines, but the massively expensive CF and other metals and composites used elsewhere in the bike.

The cost of making CF components is astronomic.

I used to work next door to the Mavic unit where they made CF wheels for racing bicycles - more went into the bin than I would have given credit for. It takes about three days, start to finish to make a bicycle wheel... then to throw away 1/3 of your production is why they are so expensive.

If the minimum weight was higher, that would slow down corner speed, low down speeds generally and bring things to more of a level playing field.

The smaller teams just can't compete on the current level.

chopperman · Jun 19, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
Ok so I take it by your lack of backing up your argument that prototype and revolutionary stuff that doesn't filter through to production bikes is good but prototype and revolutionary stuff that does is bad.

You call me arrogant because I have a point of view and back it up with a sound argument that you are not able to refute but some how you are not arrogant because you have a point of view that not just me but others have put forth an argument as to why it may be incorrect and you fail to be able to carry it through yet we are just meant to believe you because you are you. Quality.

The only argument you have offered up to claim today's gp bikes are more prototype than the past is track plotting TC ! I offered up loads of examples from the past where original concepts were used in engines and chassis.

chopperman · Jun 19, 2012

BarryMachine said:
Rog. why are you citing all this stuff that failed! Sure it was tried but it failed. The current top Yamahas and Hondas are the pinnacle of the evolution that has occurred over many years.

Current evolution is heavily electronics centered. And we are seeing it on road bikes as it is being developed.

So you think all the stuff being used today is working so no need to try new things?

A lot of this chatter and riders being spat off when hitting bumps while banked over is due to telescopic suspension not working under those conditions ,so hardly ideal. How can a fork go up and down when the bike is banked over? Come on bestiality-barry, your the expert, tell us?

Fact is their all treading the same old ground because their the ones scared of change. Not us fans pointing it out like MA would have you believe.

Mental Anarchist · Jun 19, 2012

chopperman said:
The only argument you have offered up to claim today's gp bikes are more prototype than the past is track plotting TC ! I offered up loads of examples from the past where original concepts were used in engines and chassis.

Aaahhh, now we see where your stupidity comes from. It is your lack of reading comprehension.

Where or when have I said that todays bikes are MORE prototype than yesteryear? I haven't. Nice try to claim superiority in the discussion there Chop. Just change what the discussion was about so it makes you look right. If it helps you feel smart than good on you.

Mental Anarchist · Jun 19, 2012

chopperman said:
The only argument you have offered up to claim today's gp bikes are more prototype than the past is track plotting TC ! I offered up loads of examples from the past where original concepts were used in engines and chassis.

Aaahhh, now we see where your stupidity comes from. It is your lack of reading comprehension.

Where or when have I said that todays bikes are MORE prototype than yesteryear? I haven't. Nice try to claim superiority in the discussion there Chop. Just change what the discussion was about so it makes you look right. If it helps you feel smart than good on you.

Mental Anarchist · Jun 19, 2012

chopperman said:
So you think all the stuff being used today is working so no need to try new things?

A lot of this chatter and riders being spat off when hitting bumps while banked over is due to telescopic suspension not working under those conditions ,so hardly ideal. How can a fork go up and down when the bike is banked over? Come on bestiality-barry, your the expert, tell us?

Fact is their all treading the same old ground because their the ones scared of change. Not us fans pointing it out like MA would have you believe.

Dorna banned any sort of front suspension innovation because electronic suspension was being developed in the background. Doesn't change the fact that the area where innovation and revolution is happen is what you ..... about the most on one hand and then ..... about the lack of innovation and revolution on the other.

We have clearly pointed out to you that the electronics on a MotoGP bike is clearly prototype and is clearly innovative and is clearly revolutionising motorcycles right down to the ones you can walk into any bike shop and buy.

You are so pathetic because if Jum had of said the same thing you would be licking his balls but because it is me and others you just have to disagree.

povol · Jun 19, 2012

Mental Anarchist said:
Dorna banned any sort of front suspension innovation because electronic suspension was being developed in the background. Doesn't change the fact that the area where innovation and revolution is happen is what you ..... about the most on one hand and then ..... about the lack of innovation and revolution on the other.

We have clearly pointed out to you that the electronics on a MotoGP bike is clearly prototype and is clearly innovative and is clearly revolutionising motorcycles right down to the ones you can walk into any bike shop and buy.

You are so pathetic because if Jum had of said the same thing you would be licking his balls but because it is me and others you just have to disagree.

You noticed that also.

chopperman · Jun 20, 2012

povol said:
You noticed that also.

You and MA are incapable of debate. You say i don't want or like change,you also disagree with my comment about motogp not being prototype racing .

If you bothered to read my posts you would have seen i was asking for real change with new and exciting thing's to be tried to solve issues caused by problems experienced by the conventional stuff used today, that's prototype racing. All you and MA can come up with is its prototype because of the electronics and that's all that's needed. So who is it that doesn't want change ?

I asked for turbo's in crt but you don't want that. Why? because you don't like change.

MA states how he is correct yet hasn't said .... all. Is this some forum tactic used to rally the peeps who also cant be bothered to read the thread?

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Honda threatens to quit MotoGP

HEISMAN

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