Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina

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I got no clue. All foreign to myself. Thanks for pointing it out though.

made the assumption based on Giacomo being Italian himself.
 
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Barbedwirebikerr said:
I got no clue. All foreign to myself. Thanks for pointing it out though.

made the assumption based on Giacomo being Italian himself.
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ahahaha no worries. The two languages are very similar so you are justified.

I never studied Spanish and haven't been to Spain in 10 years but can read that article and understand a good 80% of it.

Giacomo, in a few words, is stating that he doesn't think MM should get any further punishment to the ones he got during the race.

And if you ask me, I think he's right.
 
p4p1 said:
Except he has though, a crash cost him the 2011 moto2 title and could've cost him his career. He still shows no fear, he's the definition of white line fever and he is seemingly willing to die if it means he will win.
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Barbedwirebikerr said:
Marcs accident with Willairot at P.I near ended his career.
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Right, that was during his moto2 days, I was only thinking about his incidents since he joined the GP class in 2013. Marc's current mindset is definitely "win at all costs", but one bad injury may make him rethink his risk management..
 
The biggest story this weekend should be how race direction are total knobs and Jack off was screwed. Not this racing incident non issue where Marc got caught up with slower traffic and forced a rider wide who crashed on the wet grass. Never hit the grass until it is fully dry. Anyway the safety issue is such a ....... joke. So let me get this straight? Race direction(webb) was scared that the premier motorcycle racers in the world were not capable of exiting the pits to start a race? Did he feel they were not capable of remembering how to not turn into each other at 50 mph? I mean how many times a weekend do they leave the pit? Was this that foreign to them? Race direction must think the riders are dumb as .... orrrrrrrr the reason was ........ and DORNA is a total pile of .... meaning Jumkie was right about everything.
 
moto vudu said:
That's because thus far in his GP career, Marquez hasn't had an accident that severely impacted his championship hopes. Until that happens, he'll remain fearless because it is his willingness to accept high risk that's been working for him. He sees no reason to backdown, it's a mind game between him and everyone else "I'm willing to risk the contact... ARE YOU?!"
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Actually he has. His accident in Sepang 2011 cost him the Moto2 title and left him with blurred vision that for a considerable time had him concerned that his career was over. You don't get much more sobering than that as a racer.

moto vudu said:
Right, that was during his moto2 days, I was only thinking about his incidents since he joined the GP class in 2013. Marc's current mindset is definitely "win at all costs", but one bad injury may make him rethink his risk management..
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It's irrelevant what class it was in. Huge potentially career ending accidents are just that. And Marquez has had at least 1.

Barbedwirebikerr said:
https://www.motorbikemag.es/giacomo-agostini-rossi-miedo-trabaje-banco/

Any Italians on board care to translate this article for me?
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It's available here now in English:

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-exaggerated-marquez-outburst-argentina-agostini-1024507/

Valentino Rossi “exaggerated” in his critique of Marc Marquez in Argentina and was wrong to suggest the Honda rider hit him deliberately, says grand prix motorcycling legend Giacomo Agostini.

Yamaha man Rossi pulled no punches when addressing the media after Marquez made contact with him in the latter stages at Termas de Rio Hondo and caused him to crash.

It reopened the bitter feud between the pair sparked at Sepang in 2015, with Rossi accusing Marquez of intentionally aiming for his leg with his bike and “destroying our sport” with his aggressive riding.

Marquez denied Rossi’s allegations and insisted his attempt to pass the Italian after an earlier ride-through penalty was “nothing crazy” and the contact was a result of an honest mistake.

Speaking to Italy’s Radio 24, 15-time world champion Agostini said Marquez doesn’t deserve any further punishment for the incident and that Rossi was guilty of similar moves in his career.

“Marquez has made a mistake and has said sorry, we hope he won’t do it again, but he shouldn’t be disqualified,” Agostini said. “He was already punished in the race.

“If we disqualify people every time, then we won’t race [each other] anymore. This is true for everyone: I think it was [Andrea] Iannone who hit [Andrea] Dovizioso two years ago, then he was [given a three-place grid penalty], but this way no-one races anymore.
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Motorsport insider

“What happened between Marquez and Rossi has happened to everyone – it happened to me, it happened to Rossi, it happened even this race to [Johann] Zarco, who made [Dani] Pedrosa crash.

“It’s not true, as Rossi says, that Marquez aims for riders’ legs. [Right after the race] they are all a bit nervous and they are exaggerating.”

Asked about Marquez’s attempt to apologise immediately after the race – which Rossi dismissed as a “joke” – Agostini said the reigning champion should have waited longer to make his move.

“These are difficult moments, just after finishing the race when adrenaline is still at 100 percent,” he said. “Maybe it was better to wait 20 minutes more, when the waters were calmer.

“But if even if he didn’t go [to Rossi’s pitbox], everyone would have criticised him anyway.”
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MdubSTYLIE said:
The biggest story this weekend should be how race direction are total knobs and Jack off was screwed. Not this racing incident non issue where Marc got caught up with slower traffic and forced a rider wide who crashed on the wet grass. Never hit the grass until it is fully dry. Anyway the safety issue is such a ....... joke. So let me get this straight? Race direction(webb) was scared that the premier motorcycle racers in the world were not capable of exiting the pits to start a race? Did he feel they were not capable of remembering how to not turn into each other at 50 mph? I mean how many times a weekend do they leave the pit? Was this that foreign to them? Race direction must think the riders are dumb as .... orrrrrrrr the reason was ........ and DORNA is a total pile of .... meaning Jumkie was right about everything.
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Dorna care about the box office, not rider safety or fairness. I for one don’t believe they have situated themselves at arms’ length from RD despite purportedly doing so post Sepang 2015.

And despite what some (not you) might believe, I think they have inconsistent in their treatment of both Rossi and MM, with lenient treatment of both depending on who is their perceived golden ticket de jour. As Jrn0 was wont to argue, both have got away with things they shouldn’t have gotten away with, leaving the sport with entirely inconsistent precedents. I still think Rossi’s penalty post Sepang 2015 was mainly about keeping the championship live at least theoretically rather than necessarily mainly motivated by favouritism towards Rossi, and MM’s disqualification for flouting a rule literally made up 5 minutes before the race at PI 2013 was similarly motivated imo. I was a Jorge fan then, but MM losing the championship because of that race would have been ludicrously unfair.
 
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moto vudu said:
Right, that was during his moto2 days, I was only thinking about his incidents since he joined the GP class in 2013. Marc's current mindset is definitely "win at all costs", but one bad injury may make him rethink his risk management..
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His risk management levels are why he is MM.

If he rode around to less risk, he could join Rossi in battling it out for P6 or P7.
 
#22 said:
Actually he has. His accident in Sepang 2011 cost him the Moto2 title and left him with blurred vision that for a considerable time had him concerned that his career was over. You don't get much more sobering than that as a racer.



It's irrelevant what class it was in. Huge potentially career ending accidents are just that. And Marquez has had at least 1.



It's available here now in English:

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/rossi-exaggerated-marquez-outburst-argentina-agostini-1024507/
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Agostini not defending Rossi speaks volumes.
 
michaelm said:
Dorna care about the box office, not rider safety or fairness. I for one don’t believe they have been situated themselves at arms’ length from RD despite purportedly doing so post Sepang 2015.

And despite what some (not you) might think, I think they have inconsistent in their treatment of both Rossi and MM, with lenient treatment of both depending on who is their perceived golden ticket de jour. As Jrn0 was wont to argue, both have got away with things they shouldn’t have gotten away with, leaving the sport with entirely inconsistent precedents. I still think Rossi’s penalty post Sepang 2015 was mainly about keeping the championship live at least theoretically rather than necessarily mainly motivated by favouritism towards Rossi, and similarly MM’s disqualification for flouting a rule literally made up 5 minutes before the race at PI 2013 was similarly motivated imo. I was a Jorge fan then, but MM losing the championship because of that race would have been ludicrously unfair.
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I do agree with most of this. I have the same take about the penalty from sepang. RD penalized Rossi just enough to not shoot themselves in the foot and potentially help their ratings for the final round.

I think MM has been treated unfairly by RD his entire motogp career. Not moto2 but gp. Based on his past he is punished more than any other rider. Also I think RD knows MM can make up the punishment making for a closer championship. What was AI penalized two seasons ago for repeated torpedoes? Who is the last rider to be suspended a race for actions on the track?
 
The more I read about Rossi's whining the more it reminds me of those divers in soccer who will demasculate and debase themselves in any manner, bleating and crying, writhing around on the ground like a spoiled child, all to get their opponent a penalty just to advance their own position.

Maybe it's a European thing (haha) but no self-respecting man should act like that.

....... grow a set you ....... baby.

(Edited to add: No I do not believe for one second that Rossi crashed on purpose)
 
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JPSLotus said:
Agostini not defending Rossi speaks volumes.
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True that.

It has to be said that Agostini has never really been on Rossi's side, at least on the Italian media.

But regardless of that and regardless of the fact that I don't like to talk "in championships" I think a 15 times World Champion should understand a thing or two about racing that we "normal" people can not.

Rossi's point of view is out of the equation IMHO, cause he is obviously trying to pull people's opinion on his side and have everyone hating Marc.
 
JPSLotus said:
His risk management levels are why he is MM.

If he rode around to less risk, he could join Rossi in battling it out for P6 or P7.
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Lorenzo took more risks until crashes and injuries made him rethink his approach. He still went on to win championships. But yes, MM is a high risk rider. But he is still mortal and it only takes one lapse in judgement to end it all.
 
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Nothing more hard hitting that a couch jockey telling someone who rides a 250ps, 330kmph missile to grow a set.

Just another day on Motogpforum.
 
MadMax said:
The more I read about Rossi's whining the more it reminds me of those divers in soccer who will demasculate and debase themselves in any manner, bleating and crying, writhing around on the ground like a spoiled child, all to get their opponent a penalty just to advance their own position.

Maybe it's a European thing (haha) but no self-respecting man should act like that.

....... grow a set you ....... baby.

(Edited to add: No I do not believe for one second that Rossi crashed on purpose)
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Ahahaha I see what you did there.

No, it's not a European thing. Being a spoiled primadonna is not a matter of Nationality IMHO.
 
moto vudu said:
That's because thus far in his GP career, Marquez hasn't had an accident that severely impacted his championship hopes.
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Incorrect.

I can immediately recall two incidents - both at Sepang. The first was in 125 when he crashed in FP1 prematurely ending his 2009 rookie season. If you remember both his legs were entangled with the back wheel and the swinging arm and he suffered cartilage problems to the tibia. It turned out to be not as serious as first thought, but was sufficient to end his campaign and initially there was concern as to whether he'd race again. The second, again forced him to miss the end of his rookie season (in Moto 2) crashing in practice at Sepang. During the crash, Marquez suffered some nerve damage, which had caused paralysis of the superior oblique muscle, which controls the rotation of the eyeball in certain directions. Suffering from blurred vision he was not able to race and although he aimed to return at Valencia, his continued visual impairment forced him to withdraw handing the title to Bradl. This didn't just scupper his championship but until the success of the corrective surgery - forget "championship hopes", it looked as though his entire future racing career was in jeopardy.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/209711/1/marquezs-career-was-almost-over-in-2011

Also add the Mugello crash in which, "championship hopes" and racing career aside, he was inches away from losing his life.
 
moto vudu said:
Lorenzo took more risks until crashes and injuries made him rethink his approach. He still went on to win championships. But yes, MM is a high risk rider. But he is still mortal and it only takes one lapse in judgement to end it all.
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He dialed it down in the races the last 2 years and bagged two titles.

The only reason you saw him pushing the way he was Sunday was because of the ride-thru penalty dropping him at 19th. If that never happens, he disappears off into the distance for an easy win.

As is, his riding was fine. He made a mistake with Rossi, but it was not malicious nor was it deserving of a 30 second penalty. They hit the wettest spot on the track. Rossi in usual fashion turned it into something it wasn't.
 
JPSLotus said:
He dialed it down in the races the last 2 years and bagged two titles.

The only reason you saw him pushing the way he was Sunday was because of the ride-thru penalty dropping him at 19th. If that never happens, he disappears off into the distance for an easy win.

As is, his riding was fine. He made a mistake with Rossi, but it was not malicious nor was it deserving of a 30 second penalty. They hit the wettest spot on the track. Rossi in usual fashion turned it into something it wasn't.
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Can you admit you would not say that if it was Rossi that unnecessarily dove up the inside on Marquez causing him to go down?
 
moto vudu said:
That's because thus far in his GP career, Marquez hasn't had an accident that severely impacted his championship hopes. Until that happens, he'll remain fearless because it is his willingness to accept high risk that's been working for him. He sees no reason to backdown, it's a mind game between him and everyone else "I'm willing to risk the contact... ARE YOU?!"
Click to expand...



Marquez finished his 2011 season not knowing if he would have ever raced a motorcycle again due to his sepang crash, that MADE him lose the moto2 championship and also almost cost him his eyesight.

In 2013 he crashed on the straight at Mugello at 338 km/h (fastest crash in MotoGP's history) and if he would have been literally half a meter more to the left he would have hit the wall and died instantly. He himself admitted he's been feeling scared on the Mugello straight for the following years and probably still is today.
 
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moto vudu said:
Can you admit you would not say that if it was Rossi that unnecessarily dove up the inside on Marquez causing him to go down?
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Same as Argentina 2015 in reverse, MM was much faster and was easily going to pass Rossi somewhere on the lap, he made an error of judgement just as he did in contesting Rossi in 2015 given Rossi had caught up several seconds on him and passed him easily. Not having watched either race live, I have no strong opinion, but there seems to be at least as much reason to speculate that Rossi intentionally took MM down in 2015 as there is to assume malice aforethought from MM this year.
 

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