Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina

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"Stoner says I'm an impolite rider, he says it's scary to be on track with me. Why? Just because he lost the baffle at Laguna and he still can't accept it. Laguna was an epic race. Did Mick Doohan call Wayne Gardner impolite after their epic baffle at Phillip Island in 1990? No! Did Wayne Rainey call Kevin Schwantz a ....... at Suzuka in 1991? No this is racing!"

Phillip Island?? Oh no, tell me it ain’t so. The scene of the 2015 crime. Both then and now I call it an epic race. Boppers care to comment?
 
Sepang 2015 was actually the nicest on-track confrontation we've ever witnessed. Slowing a rider down to crawling speeds to block them has never been done before. It's always been done at full race pace before that incident.
 
Hmmmm deliberately slowing down during a race? What rule does it break? Normally going slow is a race losing tactic? On the other hand, brake checking an opponent in a specific corner can indeed be a winning tactic. Which corner/s has Marquez employed the classic brake check, causing Rossi to crash?
 
birdman said:
Hmmmm deliberately slowing down during a race? What rule does it break? Normally going slow is a race losing tactic? On the other hand, brake checking an opponent in a specific corner can indeed be a winning tactic. Which corner/s has Marquez employed the classic brake check, causing Rossi to crash?
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It wasn't much of a brake check. Rossi simply blocked the turn in point and Marc was initially confused, but then once he saw Rossi turn his head back around and get back on the throttle he mistimed his turn in and hit Rossi's bike which pinched his brake lever. Rossi was responsible for the incident, but the fact remains before that similar tactics have been employed while at full race pace.
 
moto vudu said:
It wasn't much of a brake check. Rossi simply blocked the turn in point and Marc was initially confused, but then once he saw Rossi turn his head back around and get back on the throttle he mistimed his turn in and hit Rossi's bike which pinched his brake lever. Rossi was responsible for the incident, but the fact remains before that similar tactics have been employed while at full race pace.
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You are right it was in fact not a classic brake check, in hindsight quite a poetic maneurver. What I was asking though was does Marquez have this move in his arsenal, so to speak. Not really to me he runs into riders going too fast if anything. I think in hindsight Rossi gave him more credit than was due post PI 15 the slowing the race pace tactic is more what Rossi would do rather than Marquez, never seen him actually do it while I’ve witnessed Rossi suddenly increase pace many times indicating he was ‘foxing’ with apponents. Honestly to me this whole Rossi v Marquez thing is blown out of proportion, yet I think Rossi instigated it because he simply doesn’t want to be friends.
 
birdman said:
You are right it was in fact not a classic brake check, in hindsight quite a poetic maneurver. What I was asking though was does Marquez have this move in his arsenal, so to speak. Not really to me he runs into riders going too fast if anything. I think in hindsight Rossi gave him more credit than was due post PI 15 the slowing the race pace tactic is more what Rossi would do rather than Marquez, never seen him actually do it while I’ve witnessed Rossi suddenly increase pace many times indicating he was ‘foxing’ with apponents. Honestly to me this whole Rossi v Marquez thing is blown out of proportion, yet I think Rossi instigated it because he simply doesn’t want to be friends.
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I think every high level circuit racer as a similar tactic in their arsenal, it's just very difficult to notice on camera because they're very slight moves. I remember during Edward's WSBK days he mentioned a "trick" he would do if he was on a last lap battle at Laguna Seca. If he was in the lead going into the final corner before the straight up the hill to the finish line, he would chop the throttle mid-corner. He said that would force the following rider to go wide, hit the brakes, or clip his rear tire... all of which would kill that rider's drive up the hill. But it's something that's done so slight, viewers on tv wouldn't notice it... they would only think the rider behind Edwards made a mistake and went in too hot then went wide.

I'm just saying, I think all riders have an arsenal of tricks they use to attempt to gain an advantage. Sepang 2015 is popular because of how odd it was to see Rossi slow down like that, but he could of blocked Marc from turning onto the racing line without drastically slowing down like he did.
 
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Marquez did something similar to Pedrosa in 2014 I can't remember what track but he slowed mid corner which made Pedrosa run wide and he took the win.
 
Holypuck said:
I know a lot of kids and several 40 year olds, but Rossi is the only 40 years old kid I have ever seen.
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Have u heard of one Donald J. Trump? 71 I believe. Far more childish... or on the childish-o-meter 45>46!! Lol!!
 
moto vudu said:
I think every high level circuit racer as a similar tactic in their arsenal, it's just very difficult to notice on camera because they're very slight moves. I remember during Edward's WSBK days he mentioned a "trick" he would do if he was on a last lap battle at Laguna Seca. If he was in the lead going into the final corner before the straight up the hill to the finish line, he would chop the throttle mid-corner. He said that would force the following rider to go wide, hit the brakes, or clip his rear tire... all of which would kill that rider's drive up the hill. But it's something that's done so slight, viewers on tv wouldn't notice it... they would only think the rider behind Edwards made a mistake and went in too hot then went wide.

I'm just saying, I think all riders have an arsenal of tricks they use to attempt to gain an advantage. Sepang 2015 is popular because of how odd it was to see Rossi slow down like that, but he could of blocked Marc from turning onto the racing line without drastically slowing down like he did.
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Yes I get that, it’s what Stoner specifically complained about Laguna 08. What I’m thinking though is when applied to Marquez he won’t back down like say Stoner would and he willingly
initiates collision. If so I get it would likely infuriate Rossi, it would negate his tactics. I guess that’s why Rossi was forced to slow the pace down Sepang 15 as you said, at race pace vs Marquez it might be suicide because MM won’t back down. This is why I think Marquez is a product of his environment. He simply refuses to back down where other riders would and shows pure aggression. How the hell does RD stamp it out? It’s too late because it ain’t lawn bowls and peeps don’t want it to be either.
 
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birdman said:
Yes I get that, it’s what Stoner specifically complained about Laguna 08. What I’m thinking though is when applied to Marquez he won’t back down like say Stoner would and he willingly
initiates collision. If so I get it would likely infuriate Rossi, it would negate his tactics. I guess that’s why Rossi was forced to slow the pace down Sepang 15 as you said, at race pace vs Marquez it might be suicide because MM won’t back down. This is why I think Marquez is a product of his environment. He simply refuses to back down where other riders would and shows pure aggression. How the hell does RD stamp it out? It’s too late because it ain’t lawn bowls and peeps don’t want it to be either.
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That's because thus far in his GP career, Marquez hasn't had an accident that severely impacted his championship hopes. Until that happens, he'll remain fearless because it is his willingness to accept high risk that's been working for him. He sees no reason to backdown, it's a mind game between him and everyone else "I'm willing to risk the contact... ARE YOU?!"
 
Miller was dudded. He should have got a five to ten second adjusted bonus time. Dorna is useless, running around because they didn’t have a clue what to do when a scenario they didn’t think of came to fruition.

As for MM he should get a one race suspension for being a knob, just like Rossi should have for kicking at MM whenever that race was.

Dorna hasn’t got a clue when it comes to the ‘big’ stars. They let them do what they want with impunity. It’s time for real suspensions for unsafe actions, not band aid fixes and letting riders and teams do what they want.
 
moto vudu said:
That's because thus far in his GP career, Marquez hasn't had an accident that severely impacted his championship hopes. Until that happens, he'll remain fearless because it is his willingness to accept high risk that's been working for him. He sees no reason to backdown, it's a mind game between him and everyone else "I'm willing to risk the contact... ARE YOU?!"
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Except he has though, a crash cost him the 2011 moto2 title and could've cost him his career. He still shows no fear, he's the definition of white line fever and he is seemingly willing to die if it means he will win.
 
moto vudu said:
That's because thus far in his GP career, Marquez hasn't had an accident that severely impacted his championship hopes. Until that happens, he'll remain fearless because it is his willingness to accept high risk that's been working for him. He sees no reason to backdown, it's a mind game between him and everyone else "I'm willing to risk the contact... ARE YOU?!"
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I think he is willing to risk more than any rider out there. Or simply doesn’t appreciate the consequences. He has been injured though, surely he knows what could happen? I think he is willing to take the risk. A 39 yo rider like Rossi finds it reckless and dangerous but there was a time he likely would of applauded it. When he eventually becomes a team manager I bet VR will actively pursue this rider mindset. And so the sport will continue to mutate into acceptance of the more and more reckless. It won’t be penalised, it’s entertainmemt afterall.
 
moto vudu said:
That's because thus far in his GP career, Marquez hasn't had an accident that severely impacted his championship hopes. Until that happens, he'll remain fearless because it is his willingness to accept high risk that's been working for him. He sees no reason to backdown, it's a mind game between him and everyone else "I'm willing to risk the contact... ARE YOU?!"
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Marcs accident with Willairot at P.I near ended his career.
 
Barbedwirebikerr said:
https://www.motorbikemag.es/giacomo-agostini-rossi-miedo-trabaje-banco/

Any Italians on board care to translate this article for me?
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My browser gave it a go...

Giacomo Agostini defends Márquez after the incident with Rossi in Argentina
In a live interview for Teledeporte in the summary broadcast by the thematic channel of TVE about the GP of Argentina, Giacomo Agostini has spoken very clearly about the incident between Rossi and Márquez at Termas de Río Hondo. He classifies it as a career haul, in which the Spanish driver was at fault, but believes that Valentino exaggerates.

Giacomo Agostini , the most successful driver in the history of the Motorcycle World Championship, gave his opinion after what happened yesterday at the GP of Argentina. The Italian driver has been interviewed in the summary that Teledeporte broadcasts every Monday after each MotoGP event, led by Marc Martín, and has spoken quite clearly about what happened.


Although he believes that Marquez was going to the limit, the 15-time World Champion takes the iron out of the matter: " These things were done when I ran and they are done today . It has always been done. I think Marquez was a bit nervous , because before the start they changed tires, then the bike stopped on the grid, then when he had the touch with Espargaró he had to give up a position ... It was a bit complicated and nervous race. Marquez was going to the maximum and was shooting a second faster than anyone, he 'ate' them all one after the other. I think I could wait for a curve to be able to overtake more easily. I think Marquez understood this, because he went to ask forgiveness from Valentino, " explains Agostini.

The legendary Italian expilot did not like the words of Rossi in which he said that Márquez sought the contact on purpose, both with him and with other pilots: " That's silly, it's impossible. Márquez was wrong in this and asked for forgiveness. But for example Zarco took out Pedrosa and nobody has talked about this. Valentino also took Gibernau out in Jerez and nobody did anything. All pilots have to understand that these things can happen. You have to tell Marc to have a little more attention, but it's the races. You can not pass a pilot asking him "Hey, can I pass you?" , Exposes 'Ago'.

Although in Italy they have come to request that they harden the sanction to Márquez, Agostini does not agree with his compatriots who comment this: «Márquez paid for it, because in the end he did not score points. There are a lot of people in Italy who say that they have to be out 2 or 3 races , but it's not right. Yesterday he paid for everything » .

Nor are they convinced by Rossi's statements in which he says he is afraid to share a clue with Márquez, and there he has been very blunt: «Valentino also says that he is afraid now. If you are afraid, do another job, work in the bank. All life has gone at 300 km / h and now he is afraid. I do not understand this. It has exaggerated a bit. Now everything is very hot, but I believe and I hope that in the end everything will be forgotten » .

« The problem was born because they are Marquez and Valentino . If they had been two others, as for example passed between Zarco and Pedrosa, nothing happened and Dani had a very dangerous fall , " added the great dominator of the queen category in the late 60s and early 70s.

Finally, do not think that what happened in Argentina will influence the attitude of Márquez when facing the following appointments: "I think Márquez in the next race will do as always, try to win the race and show that at this time he is the strongest of all » .
 

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