Furusawa: I'd rather keep Rossi

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Talpa said:
Yes the old 'tall poppy' syndrome went international with vr and remains very strong, I do find it amazing how some hate rossi even more than his fans like him, then again some will always despise successful people.........



Rog is right, it doesn't matter that rossi has beaten the best for years or if he continues to, some will just hate him........their mindless attempts at discrediting vr however, are a source of great entertainment for me!! IMO you might get more sense in a psych ward
<
Click to expand...

That said Talpa, many tire of the vacuous Rossi worship, and the mindless mass unquestioning religious devotion that surrounds the Temple of Tavulia.



Personally, I regard the man as unrivaled on the racetrack but find the PR facade wearisome. I love his knowledge of his sport and his obvious humble respect for the luminaries that preceded him, but express extreme distaste at the custard coloured ....... that accompanies his victories and is so readily lapped up and swallowed by the adoring bandwagon.



To express a liking for CS on this forum is tantamount to sacrilege. I like Casey, and I want to see him push Rossi. I respect them both as racers - that does not necessarily follow that I am endeared to either of their personalities off the racetrack, for a variety of reasons.



In point of fact, I'm not sure that Valentino has beaten the best yet. Perhaps the best is yet to come.
 
chopperman said:
Why dig up an article about rossi and ducati, whats that got to do with what were talking about.?

I think you read too much into some of these articles. I think the results and lap times tell you there on the same bike. Lorenzo wanted #1 rider money. He has the bike and from what ive seen he has a very good team and between them there producing terrific results so data sharing is not an issue. It may have been at the start of 09 when lorenzo then switched to stones and his team-mate had already had a season on them, but not now.

In 09 Lorenzo finished 2nd in the championship even with 4 retirements, the other riders who also had 4 retirements or non starts were dovi and stoner. Stoner finishing 4th in the wc and dovi 6th. That shows you what a bike lorenzo has and what a rider he is.

Rossi finished on 306 pts with 1 retirements

Lorenzo finished on 261 pts with 4 retirements



261+ 75 = 336 so as you see apart from the crashes lorenzo did better than rossi.

Im not surprised rossi is not to keen to have a team-mate like that. After all there all after the same thing . Rossi is no doubt better at bringing in the bucks than lorenzo at the moment, It make business sence for yam to favor rossi but its ........ to imply lorenzos bike is not as good as rossi's.



Edit



I notice your now saying "treatment" and not bike. Where did that lorenzo quote originate from that you posted sacky ?
Click to expand...





Here is a better story from Kropkin's site

My link





In response to the question of whether Yamaha had promised Lorenzo that he would receive parts at the same time as his team mate Valentino Rossi, Lorenzo replied: "Yes, of course. Lin Jarvis is the first person I have to thank for this, but also (Masao) Furusawa, because before Brno, they promised me that my bike will be the same as Valentino's in the second half of the season and next year. This is something to take into account, and it was a very important point in making this decision."



Lorenzo intends to make sure those commitments are honored. The Spaniard signed just a one-year deal with Yamaha, instead of the previous two-year deal he has with them. Clearly, if Lorenzo feels that Yamaha is favoring Rossi with special parts that he is not getting, then he will reopen negotiations again next year. He could then decide to go to Ducati after all, as he reiterated in the interview that he was not afraid of the bike, and that he was sure he would be able to go fast on the tricky Desmosedici.
Click to expand...
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
That said Talpa, many tire of the vacuous Rossi worship, and the mindless mass unquestioning religious devotion that surrounds the Temple of Tavulia.



Personally, I regard the man as unrivaled on the racetrack but find the PR facade wearisome. I love his knowledge of his sport and his obvious humble respect for the luminaries that preceded him, but express extreme distaste at the custard coloured ....... that accompanies his victories and is so readily lapped up and swallowed by the adoring bandwagon.



To express a liking for CS on this forum is tantamount to sacrilege. I like Casey, and I want to see him push Rossi. I respect them both as racers - that does not necessarily follow that I am endeared to either of their personalities off the racetrack, for a variety of reasons.



In point of fact, I'm not sure that Valentino has beaten the best yet. Perhaps the best is yet to come.
Click to expand...

Of course the other side is apparent with a figure such as Rossi and the way in which he has amassed the support he has doesn't appeal to everyone, my reference was to the detraction of his acheivements on track and the constant 'Rossi has to do this now to prove whatever.......and so on'



I do agree that Rossi has turned motogp into a much more theatrical series both on track and off, the state of the world and the modern obsession for more has also contributed.



Has Rossi beaten the best? Depends on which 'best' we are referring to. He has beaten the best across five classes of world championships and spanning three or four generations of riders, so he has beaten the best of his time which is all he could do.......



I believe the challenge he faced in 2004 is still greater than anything posed today, but I guess to find out if he could really beat the best we need to line vr up with ago, hailwood, doohan, surtees, rainey, sheene and angeln in their primes and watch what happens



I personally don't think we will get another name from this generation of riders to add to the above list....
 
I forgot to add BarryMachine to that list!!!!!!
<




If only the others could slide the rear end like him! What could have been......
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
That said Talpa, many tire of the vacuous Rossi worship, and the mindless mass unquestioning religious devotion that surrounds the Temple of Tavulia.



Personally, I regard the man as unrivaled on the racetrack but find the PR facade wearisome. I love his knowledge of his sport and his obvious humble respect for the luminaries that preceded him, but express extreme distaste at the custard coloured ....... that accompanies his victories and is so readily lapped up and swallowed by the adoring bandwagon.



To express a liking for CS on this forum is tantamount to sacrilege. I like Casey, and I want to see him push Rossi. I respect them both as racers - that does not necessarily follow that I am endeared to either of their personalities off the racetrack, for a variety of reasons.



In point of fact, I'm not sure that Valentino has beaten the best yet. Perhaps the best is yet to come.
Click to expand...



Bloody great post.



Talpa, you still don't get it and it looks like you probably never will. You continuously bore us with your Rossi haters comments but the problem is very few people hate Rossi. On the flip side there are a great many people that hate his extremist fans. The yellow puke that flows from the mouth of extremists like yourself does such a massive disservice to Rossi that I have no doubt he would hate you as much as all those that you piss off with your ridiculous dribble. You are like a stalker because you are completely irrational as a result of your love for your idol.
 
TP70 said:
Bloody great post.



Talpa, you still don't get it and it looks like you probably never will. You continuously bore us with your Rossi haters comments but the problem is very few people hate Rossi. On the flip side there are a great many people that hate his extremist fans. The yellow puke that flows from the mouth of extremists like yourself does such a massive disservice to Rossi that I have no doubt he would hate you as much as all those that you piss off with your ridiculous dribble. You are like a stalker because you are completely irrational as a result of your love for your idol.
Click to expand...



Ah yes, being told about dribble by the resident expert (on Dribble) but you need to google the word 'Hypocrite' and try to sharpen your skills in this area..........thank you for yet another brilliant piece of logic from your broken record



Arri's post did well to refer to his point, whilst yours, as always, smells exactly like the ........ that keeps coming from your keyboard
 
chopperman said:
I thought we were talking about who is and is not a "legend". legends are based on careers not an individual race or season imo. Some here have stated Stoner is a Legend or the next Mick Doohan who is a legend imo. Other's here TP have suggested rossi needs to ride for yet another make or even bizarrely a satellite team and win to prove he is the goat ! Hence my moving goal posts statement . It was the biaggi fans who claimed rossi only won cos he had the RC211v, Rossi changed to the M1 that biaggi could not win on and won the wc when the yam clearly was not the best bike. Rossi came 2nd in the championship on a non factory bike yet the haters claim it was as good as the Repsol ignoring the fact he was a skinny young rookie on the mad bad 500 honda that damn near killed mick doohan
<
Pitty stoner never got to 'proove' himself on a 500.
Click to expand...

Rossi does not need to do anything further to prove himself, and obviously did not need even to win the 2008 and 2009 championships to be a legend let alone better than casey stoner. I had to concede that he had surpassed mick doohan after 2008, which was far more painful for me than him beating casey stoner. No rider other than roberts senior including doohan has done as well as a rookie on a 500, and neither was as young or as skinny as rossi at the time.



I actually think the ''... backwards aussie" as mdubstylie calls stoner might have been suited to the knife edge wild 500s if he had survived them; the more neutral and smooth they make the ducati the less well it seems to suit him.
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
That said Talpa, many tire of the vacuous Rossi worship, and the mindless mass unquestioning religious devotion that surrounds the Temple of Tavulia.



Personally, I regard the man as unrivaled on the racetrack but find the PR facade wearisome. I love his knowledge of his sport and his obvious humble respect for the luminaries that preceded him, but express extreme distaste at the custard coloured ....... that accompanies his victories and is so readily lapped up and swallowed by the adoring bandwagon.



To express a liking for CS on this forum is tantamount to sacrilege. I like Casey, and I want to see him push Rossi. I respect them both as racers - that does not necessarily follow that I am endeared to either of their personalities off the racetrack, for a variety of reasons.



In point of fact, I'm not sure that Valentino has beaten the best yet. Perhaps the best is yet to come.
Click to expand...

<
<
<
 
michaelm said:
The nastro azzurro bike was in fact considerably better than at least alex criville's repsol honda bike in 2000, but only because valentino was developing/sorting it rather than alex.



There are as yet no premier class legends other than valentino rossi since mick doohan's retirement. Winning any premier class world championship at any time is still pretty good though.
Click to expand...

Burgess said the exact opposite; he said the bike was terrible. He thought that Rossi could have won that year on debut if he had the right iteration of the NSR.
 
RCV600RR said:
Burgess said the exact opposite; he said the bike was terrible. He thought that Rossi could have won that year on debut if he had the right iteration of the NSR.
Click to expand...

I meant by the end of the year. I don't think the repsol hondas were any good at the start of the year either.



I lost a quite a deal of interest in the 1999 championship after doohan went down but I thought the story was that alex criville changed the bike quite considerably after he became lead rider to the extent that by next season it became unrideable including by him.
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
In point of fact, I'm not sure that Valentino has beaten the best yet. Perhaps the best is yet to come.
Click to expand...

Spies? I presume you're talking about Spies - then I would put Stoner, Spies and Lorenzo together. Pedrosa to me is still a maybe. Spies was born in 84, Pedrosa and Stoner in 85 and Lorenzo in 87. I can definatley see Spies winning a WC, but will he do it in the next 2- 3 years? I say 2 to 3 years because I think that is all we will see of Rossi in motoGP. Maybe Rossi will do a Bayliss and go on forever, although their international careers obviously started at totally different ages.

To me, if Rossi went on to ride till he was 40, (and I presume he keeps a full factory team with JB), then I could only see him winning a minimum of 1 championship every 2 years, it wouldn't matter who his greatest rival was, because they would be in the shadow of the GOAT. Saying that, if someone won every other championship in that time, they would be a demi GOAT.
 
SackWack said:
Was Lorenzo a serious title threat last year? Why was it highly publicized that in Lorenzo's one year contract with Yamaha he would get equal treatment as Rossi? Why was it such a big deal? Leading us to believe that this was not the case last year. Why was it soon after that Rossi began making his threats? Simply put, the way I see it is Lorenzo is asking for equal treatment and Rossi is asking for un-equal teatment.



I believe that Lorenzo is a serious title contender this year. I am also enjoying the fact that, at least on paper, Lorenzo's bike is the same as Rossi's. Thats the beauty of the situation. No excuses for Lorenzo or Rossi. May the best team win. It's a situation that we have all been begging for, the two best riders on the same stuff going head to head.
Click to expand...



This is really far-fetched excuses for Lorenzo, for his 2nd season in the Yamaha factory team.

Anyway... one will always find ways of taking credit away from Rossi, I suppose, if one tries hard enough. Personally, I never take credit away from riders who win. I never did it with Stoner, I always rejected all ideas about superior bike or electronics. And I reject these pretexts targeting Rossi as well.

Lorenzo has time, but the record is that a certain Rossi in 2009 beat him fair and square.

2010 is open, but 2009 cannot be cancelled
<
 
Son of Doohan said:
Spies? I presume you're talking about Spies - then I would put Stoner, Spies and Lorenzo together. Pedrosa to me is still a maybe. Spies was born in 84, Pedrosa and Stoner in 85 and Lorenzo in 87. I can definatley see Spies winning a WC, but will he do it in the next 2- 3 years? I say 2 to 3 years because I think that is all we will see of Rossi in motoGP. Maybe Rossi will do a Bayliss and go on forever, although their international careers obviously started at totally different ages.

To me, if Rossi went on to ride till he was 40, (and I presume he keeps a full factory team with JB), then I could only see him winning a minimum of 1 championship every 2 years, it wouldn't matter who his greatest rival was, because they would be in the shadow of the GOAT. Saying that, if someone won every other championship in that time, they would be a demi GOAT.
Click to expand...



Still not sure really, I mean, when Rossi was younger we could say he had better reflexes and could ride and risk at higher extremes, now he is older and a wise wolf of course. So you could think that in his first winning Championship years, Riders that did beat him in some races would be demi GOATs. I do not agree, and that's why I do not think any other Rider, without proving themselves with similar or better results than Doohan for example, are to be considered demi GOATs, Legends, greatest, bestest, or whatever the likes could be.
 
J4rn0 said:
This is really far-fetched excuses for Lorenzo, for his 2nd season in the Yamaha factory team.

Anyway... one will always find ways of taking credit away from Rossi, I suppose, if one tries hard enough. Personally, I never take credit away from riders who win. I never did it with Stoner, I always rejected all ideas about superior bike or electronics. And I reject these pretexts targeting Rossi as well.

Lorenzo has time, but the record is that a certain Rossi in 2009 beat him fair and square.

2010 is open, but 2009 cannot be cancelled
<
Click to expand...

Exactly right. You were fair about stoner, and I imagine you were about hayden.



It is the natural order of things that the better the rider the better resources they tend to be given, and this is not unfair. I think rossi has mostly had the resources to develop a winning bike, which doesn't mean anyone else would have won on the same bike or have been able to develop the bike into a winning bike. A situation where rossi didn't have such resources would imply incompetence on the part of the the teams or management unless he made himself absolutely unaffordable; he is too smart to do this and not notably greedy as far as I can tell. However, if another team or rider does happen to end up with a good bike within the rules that is not unfair either.
 
chopperman said:
Rossi finished on 306 pts with 1 retirements

Lorenzo finished on 261 pts with 4 retirements



261+ 75 = 336 so as you see apart from the crashes lorenzo did better than rossi.

Im not surprised rossi is not to keen to have a team-mate like that. After all there all after the same thing . Rossi is no doubt better at bringing in the bucks than lorenzo at the moment, It make business sence for yam to favor rossi but its ........ to imply lorenzos bike is not as good as rossi's.
Click to expand...



You can't assume that Lorenzo would have gotten the 75 points that were on the table when he crashed. If that is the case then you have to assume Rossi would have gotten the 75 points maximum in Le Mans when he crashed and came in the pits 4 times to finish out of the points in 16th, at Donington when he crashed while leading eventhough he go back up and made it back to 5th place, and at Indy when he crashed out with a DNF.



Only if you treat it that way is everything else constant for this comparison and the you get the math of...



306 + 50 (out of points crashes/DNF) = 356 + 14 (difference of 5th place to 1st place at Donington) = 370



That is like saying "IF" back in 2006 when Hayden won.....bottom line is every year, based on the points earned under the rules of MotoGP there is a champion and the next year gets under way.



IMO Lorenzo had to race harder and at the limit more for his 2009 season results....more DNF's and points left on the table at the end. Lorenzo is certainly a player for the title, and I think this year could be it. He has finally figured out that it is better to take wins when he can get them vs pushing himself into a mistake and crashing just to beat Rossi. He knows at this stage of the game, it is more important to score the max points he can and grind it out over the season for the title vs trying to have more wins than Rossi and possibly crashing out in the process and missing the title from DNFs. He sees that if Rossi has 5 wins and a crash and he gets 6 second place finishes, he is only 5 points down for the season at that point. I am saying he can pressure Rossi more effectively by staying on the bike and collecting podiums than tring to duke it out every round and get pulled into making mistakes like in 2009. This start of this year is a great example, he rides his race and the results will be there for him.



Also, if Lorenzo stays at Yamaha (which i think he will), it will...



1) force Rossi to make the decision to jump ship to another team (probably without JB and crew) and start over with a new bike....and that is a major challenge.



2) make Rossi stay and eat his words about "either Lorenzo goes or I go" to Yamaha and make him look like he does not have the pull he once did.....this could really get to Rossi in that he might start to think he is not "the man" and it could push him to work harder and win more or push to hard and start making mistakes and beating himself.



Lorenzo's best move he can make is to just stay at Yamaha whether he wins the title or not to really get into Rossi's head . If he wins the title and Yamaha still picks Rossi to be the #1 rider, Lorenzo should stay, knowing he can beat him on that bike. If he does not win it this year, and he stays with Yamaha, it will just piss off Rossi. It is a win/win for Lorenzo for 2010 and in the long term



I am pulling for Rossi. I want to see his get the all time win record and another title. I do not feel there will be another rider that will come along and put up numbers close to Rossi. It was hard for Ago and he could get those numbers with racing 2 classes every year. That can not be done in this modern age of racing. Also, no rider at this level has had perfect race attendence going on 15 seasons. He has had some injuries, not as bad as some riders, but he still raced with them and still placed well.
 
michaelm said:
Exactly right. You were fair about stoner, and I imagine you were about hayden.



It is the natural order of things that the better the rider the better resources they tend to be given, and this is not unfair. I think rossi has mostly had the resources to develop a winning bike, which doesn't mean anyone else would have won on the same bike or have been able to develop the bike into a winning bike. A situation where rossi didn't have such resources would imply incompetence on the part of the the teams or management unless he made himself absolutely unaffordable; he is too smart to do this and not notably greedy as far as I can tell. However, if another team or rider does happen to end up with a good bike within the rules that is not unfair either.
Click to expand...



Sure. I may add that many think Rossi "inherited" Doohan's bike in 2000, but that wasn't the case. Rossi in his rookie year started on the new version of the NSR that had been (badly) developed by Criville during the winter ( having the same material as the factory team is not always an advantage!). It took all the first half of the season before HRC listened to him and Burgess and made the changes they were asking for. Not surprisingly, Rossi made most of the points that year in the second half of the season... So that was his first example of setting a bike in the right direction.



Lorenzo did not have that problem when arriving at Yamaha, and his capacity to give the right leads for development is still untested. Pedrosa wasn't able to develop his Pedrobike convincingly in four years, and Stoner is extremely good at dedveloping for himself only. So one can appreciate the added value of Valentino for a manufacturer. Burgess is of course a big player, but it is Rossi riding the bike and his capacity to take it to the limit and then give the right leads to the techies shouldm not be dismissed as detractors like to do when they say it's all Burgess.
<
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
That said Talpa, many tire of the vacuous Rossi worship, and the mindless mass unquestioning religious devotion that surrounds the Temple of Tavulia.



Personally, I regard the man as unrivaled on the racetrack but find the PR facade wearisome. I love his knowledge of his sport and his obvious humble respect for the luminaries that preceded him, but express extreme distaste at the custard coloured ....... that accompanies his victories and is so readily lapped up and swallowed by the adoring bandwagon.



To express a liking for CS on this forum is tantamount to sacrilege. I like Casey, and I want to see him push Rossi. I respect them both as racers - that does not necessarily follow that I am endeared to either of their personalities off the racetrack, for a variety of reasons.



In point of fact, I'm not sure that Valentino has beaten the best yet. Perhaps the best is yet to come.
Click to expand...



A bit late maybe, but may I just say, really great post, and one I wholeheartedly agree with. Well, except for the 'unrivaled' part, perhaps, he comes pretty close though. And the phrase 'custard coloured .......' deserves the boards poetry price.
 
FACTORY said:
You can't assume that Lorenzo would have gotten the 75 points that were on the table when he crashed. If that is the case then you have to assume Rossi would have gotten the 75 points maximum in Le Mans when he crashed and came in the pits 4 times to finish out of the points in 16th, at Donington when he crashed while leading eventhough he go back up and made it back to 5th place, and at Indy when he crashed out with a DNF.



Only if you treat it that way is everything else constant for this comparison and the you get the math of...



306 + 50 (out of points crashes/DNF) = 356 + 14 (difference of 5th place to 1st place at Donington) = 370



That is like saying "IF" back in 2006 when Hayden won.....bottom line is every year, based on the points earned under the rules of MotoGP there is a champion and the next year gets under way.



IMO Lorenzo had to race harder and at the limit more for his 2009 season results....more DNF's and points left on the table at the end. Lorenzo is certainly a player for the title, and I think this year could be it. He has finally figured out that it is better to take wins when he can get them vs pushing himself into a mistake and crashing just to beat Rossi. He knows at this stage of the game, it is more important to score the max points he can and grind it out over the season for the title vs trying to have more wins than Rossi and possibly crashing out in the process and missing the title from DNFs. He sees that if Rossi has 5 wins and a crash and he gets 6 second place finishes, he is only 5 points down for the season at that point. I am saying he can pressure Rossi more effectively by staying on the bike and collecting podiums than tring to duke it out every round and get pulled into making mistakes like in 2009. This start of this year is a great example, he rides his race and the results will be there for him.



Also, if Lorenzo stays at Yamaha (which i think he will), it will...



1) force Rossi to make the decision to jump ship to another team (probably without JB and crew) and start over with a new bike....and that is a major challenge.



2) make Rossi stay and eat his words about "either Lorenzo goes or I go" to Yamaha and make him look like he does not have the pull he once did.....this could really get to Rossi in that he might start to think he is not "the man" and it could push him to work harder and win more or push to hard and start making mistakes and beating himself.



Lorenzo's best move he can make is to just stay at Yamaha whether he wins the title or not to really get into Rossi's head . If he wins the title and Yamaha still picks Rossi to be the #1 rider, Lorenzo should stay, knowing he can beat him on that bike. If he does not win it this year, and he stays with Yamaha, it will just piss off Rossi. It is a win/win for Lorenzo for 2010 and in the long term



I am pulling for Rossi. I want to see his get the all time win record and another title. I do not feel there will be another rider that will come along and put up numbers close to Rossi. It was hard for Ago and he could get those numbers with racing 2 classes every year. That can not be done in this modern age of racing. Also, no rider at this level has had perfect race attendence going on 15 seasons. He has had some injuries, not as bad as some riders, but he still raced with them and still placed well.
Click to expand...

Even if he came second in all those races he would have finished on 321 pts against rossi's 306. Looking at the rest of the season and his finishes i think that it's reasonable to assume he would have podium had he finished. He would have had 309 if he finished 3rd in those race's still beating rossi by 3 pts.
 

Similar threads

#22
David Emmet: A peek into the soul of Marc Marquez
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
#22
#22
MichaelBolton
RIP Phil Read aka "The Prince of Speed"
Replies
2
Views
641
Keshav
Keshav
P
Things, feelings, points about 2020.
2
Replies
25
Views
7K
warthog1
warthog1
Segfault
2020 Season Predictions
2
Replies
31
Views
9K
Segfault
Segfault
P
Random Thoughts for 2020
2
Replies
26
Views
6K
michaelm
M

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top