Furusawa: I'd rather keep Rossi

J4rn0 said:

100% correct.

I may add, as an Italian, that actually there are many more here who do not really care if Rossi ever rides a Ducati. It is more like a journalists' dream, -- they for sure would love it and immediately hype the thing out of proportion, but it would basically be a media/advertisment trip... It's not something the "people" really feel so hot about. Italy already has Ducati and has Rossi, putting them together would not multiply them

One might even argue that Rossi on a Ducati would mean putting all eggs in one basket... Which would mean that if Vale loses, Ducati also loses. While in 2007 for instance Rossi lost, but Ducati won so we still had a reason to rejoice..

Just kidding, but just

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good point

J4rn0 said:

100% correct.

I may add, as an Italian, that actually there are many more here who do not really care if Rossi ever rides a Ducati. It is more like a journalists' dream, -- they for sure would love it and immediately hype the thing out of proportion, but it would basically be a media/advertisment trip... It's not something the "people" really feel so hot about. Italy already has Ducati and has Rossi, putting them together would not multiply them

One might even argue that Rossi on a Ducati would mean putting all eggs in one basket... Which would mean that if Vale loses, Ducati also loses. While in 2007 for instance Rossi lost, but Ducati won so we still had a reason to rejoice..

Just kidding, but just

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I have always thought that the rossi/ducati situation was like schumacher/mercedes in schumacher's heyday, when it was said that schumacher's fame and profile in germany actually exceeded that of mercedes, and it would hence be counter-productive for them to hire him as a driver.



Since schumacher (wisely or not) is now driving for mercedes I guess all bets are off.

Furusawa is so open about favoring Rossi. He may believe Yam owes so much to him that he deserve anything he want until he retires. But, his view is not necessarily shared by other Yam, otherwise they did not renew the contract with JL last year. It is still strange that someone in position as high as Frusawa so blatantly supports him on public and does not care even if his comments discourage young riders or offend his fans.



Rossi did say “it would be a dream to ride for Ducati” in 2003. I am not sure if he really meant though then.

moto3 said:

Furusawa is so open about favoring Rossi. He may believe Yam owes so much to him that he deserve anything he want until he retires. But, his view is not necessarily shared by other Yam, otherwise they did not renew the contract with JL last year. It is still strange that someone in position as high as Frusawa so blatantly supports him on public and does not care even if his comments discourage young riders or offend his fans.



Rossi did say “it would be a dream to ride for Ducati” in 2003. I am not sure if he really meant though then.

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I think things are a little more complex than this, with uncertainty about how long valentino wished to continue very much involved, and also no immediate replacement for lorenzo being available and possibly the desire to deny him to competitors. They did only sign him for 1 year as well.



Unless lorenzo is going to have a 10 year career in the premier class comparable to rossi's, and garner equivalent public affection ( the first unlikely, the second even more so), it is very much in both yamaha's and rossi's interests for valentino to retire as a yamaha icon and remain so forever. Michael schumacher having relinquished such status with ferrari may be salutary, unless he starts winning mutiple races this year and wins the championship next year which i guess is still not impossible.

If Rossi stays with Yamaha until he retires Yamaha can use his image to seel bikes for years to come. Lorenzo might (and it isn't even nearly certain) be more successful on track over the next 5 years or so, but in 10-15 years it is unlikely that an association with him will be as powerful as one with the generally accepted GOAT.

J4rn0 said:

Fact is, Furusawa is leaving and Jarvis is remaining. Now, Furusawa wants Rossi but Jarvis wants to keep Lorenzo! How do I know that?

It is evident from all the recent and present uncertainty that the two Yamaha managers do not have the same ideas, and since we know what Furusawa thinks, Jarvis' position becomes also clear.



So unless Furusawa manages somehow to convince Jarvis before leaving (improbable), it becomes more and more likely that Lorenzo will stay and consequently Rossi will leave a Jarvis-Lorenzo led Yamaha... but to go where? Furusawa has asked him to remain associated with Yamaha, to remain "a Yamaha legend" for all years to come. That would mean avoiding to go to some other competing manufacturer. We do not know what the give and take would be for that kind of loyalty, so it is difficult to tell how much Rossi feels obliged by Furusawa's desire.



But F1 for Rossi in 2011 is not such a far-fetched idea after all...

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Jarvis wants to keep both according to David Emmett who interviewed him at Jerez for motomatters. Quite a good interview - 20 minutes worth.

J4rn0 said:

The revealing bit in this interview is when Jarvis says that paradoxically the present awkward situation with riders at Yamaha is the result of "good planning". This makes me laugh.

Truth is, Yamaha management (with Jarvis at the front in this case) in 2007 thought Rossi was finished and pushed to hire a strong replacement in the form of Lorenzo. As a result an internal conflict developed, and in 2008 the Yamaha team had to split into two separate teams, one for each rider with different team managers (a unique situation).

Now we know that Yamaha (with the possible lonely exception of Furusawa) had completely underestimated Rossi's capacity and desire to fight back.

Basically, Jarvis now defends a hasty choice as "good planning" and insists that he wants to keep "both", but that's a convenient diplomatic lie.

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I really liked the way you used reason & logic to arrive at the conclusion in last 2 posts.

Rossi has a perfect opportunity to prove to the world that he can beat the best on the same bike, same tires, etc. Although this might be hard to write down on paper true racing fans understand what it means. This year he is really going to have to dig deep to find what it is going to take to beat Lorenzo. Although he may be rising to the challenge his bitching and threats about his teammate is really not doing him any justice. He should welcome the opportunity and kill all the detractors that claim "special treatment" championships are what he earned. Then he should grab his balls and want to do it all over again next year. GOAT's don't give a .... who their teammate is, right??

J4rn0 said:

I wonder where you have been last year...?!

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The hater's will always move the goal posts. doesn't matter what he does, there will always be yet another test they need to prove his worth

chopperman said:

The hater's will always move the goal posts. doesn't matter what he does, there will always be yet another test they need to prove his worth

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Yes I believe he has already beaten the best in the world many times now. And on the same bike/same tyres, not too mention others in the past on better packages as well.



Rossi doesn't have to do it again at all, he has proven his point, now is just making more history.......the haters goalposts aren't even in the park anymore

chopperman said:

The hater's will always move the goal posts. doesn't matter what he does, there will always be yet another test they need to prove his worth

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That’s all I am asking for: other Riders to prove themselves before being compared to Rossi’s achievements! I even lower the bar… I know 80% of ‘Great’ Seasons is a bit too much (2nd Rookie year is Great, and 7/10 Championships) so 50% is within Greatest Riders.



Rossi has nothing to prove, just tell me how many Riders have this last Stats?



Still, I would like to see him break the last Records to be broken:



1.- 123 Total Wins (has 104).

2.- 8 Top Class Championships (has 7 on his way to 2 or 3 more, 15 All Classes is out of the question, but Top Class is what matters the most).

3.- 12 successive Seasons in Top Class with at least one win (Rossi has eleven of this now with Qatar's, 2011 & 2012 with a win is all it takes).

VHMP01 said:

That’s all I am asking for: other Riders to prove themselves before being compared to Rossi’s achievements! I even lower the bar… I know 80% of ‘Great’ Seasons is a bit too much (2nd Rookie year is Great, and 7/10 Championships) so 50% is within Greatest Riders.



Rossi has nothing to prove, just tell me how many Riders have this last Stats?



Still, I would like to see him break the last Records to be broken:



1.- 123 Total Wins (has 104).

2.- 8 Top Class Championships (has 7 on his way to 2 or 3 more, 15 All Classes is out of the question, but Top Class is what matters the most).

3.- 12 successive Seasons in Top Class with at least one win (Rossi has eleven of this now with Qatar's, 2011 & 2012 with a win is all it takes).

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Here is part of the problem V. Someone says Rider X was better than Rossi in that race or that championship and the response from the boopers is 10 WC's 101 Race wins blah blah blah. I can't remember anyone comparing there rider to Rossi's career. It would just be futile as Rossi has the best stats/career and most of the other riders are just at the beginning of their careers.



But having a phenominal career doesn't mean that Rider X can't be better than Rossi in a given race or over a single championship.

SackWack said:

Rossi has a perfect opportunity to prove to the world that he can beat the best on the same bike, same tires, etc. Although this might be hard to write down on paper true racing fans understand what it means. This year he is really going to have to dig deep to find what it is going to take to beat Lorenzo. Although he may be rising to the challenge his bitching and threats about his teammate is really not doing him any justice. He should welcome the opportunity and kill all the detractors that claim "special treatment" championships are what he earned. Then he should grab his balls and want to do it all over again next year. GOAT's don't give a .... who their teammate is, right??

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I think you got this the wrong way round mate. Rossi has nothing to prove to anyone. Surley its the likes of Lorenzo that has to do the proving here.

SackWack said:

GOAT's don't give a .... who their teammate is, right??

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I dunno but... Doohan is a GOAT who certainly cared who his teammate was...

Mick D said:

I dunno but... Doohan is a GOAT who certainly cared who his teammate was...

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Yeah, even after Doohan had retired. The big H did not want Alex in the paddock and even threatened not to give him his wc bike if he continued to race. Alex then retired with the excuse of epilepsy, I think. Wonder who was behind that then ???

J4rn0 said:

Of course not... But the point was not that. The point here is about people who are waiting in ambush for the (eventually inevitable) beginning of Rossi's decline, ready to sentence that he wasn't that great and actually Stoner or Lorenzo were surely much better than him. Meanwhile, if instead of declining Rossi manages to beat first Stoner and then Lorenzo in consecutive championships, they conveniently dismiss that as devoid of any value unless he can repeat that feat indefinitely, even when he'll be 80 years old -- this is the attitude we are commenting upon. Which is not very sportsmanlike.

Now imagine your boss applying such criteria to your own job evaluation...

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That is complete paranoia and complete ......... No serious spectator can .... on Rossi's career. I have never read what you suggest on this forum. As a Stoner fan I can not even compare Stoner with Rossi as far as careers go. But you will hear from me and others that today at this point in time Rossi has competitors that are at the same level or maybe even better than him in a particular race or possibly over a championship season such as in 2007 when Stoner out raced and out rode Rossi over a championship season. Of course Rossi went on to do the same thing back the next 2 seasons and we are yet to see who the best will be this season but no one can dispute Rossi's career which is unequalled in history.



One thing is certain, the mantle will be passed from Rossi to another rider. That may happen due to a Rossi decline or it may happen due to Rossi's retirement but sure enough it will happen. What we will then wait to see is if someone can ever beat Rossi's career. I am sure that once upon a time people discussed Ago's career and said it would never be beat.



We should all thank the likes of Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa because I have no doubt that Rossi would no longer be racing 2 wheels if they hadn't come along. Hayden in 2006 and Stoner in 2007 lit a fire under Rossi's arse that took him to a whole new level.