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Ducati claimed another victim

Daniboy said:
4 different riders won on the RCV, only CS could tame the gp7, apples and oranges.
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True ............ to a degree but to then say.

Daniboy said:
Oh sorry I forgot that flash in the pan moment, invisible for the most part though .
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Is rather a straw grab of sorts as 2 of the Honda riders only won a single race and were rather nowhere to be seen in many ways elsewhere (one could argue that Pedrosa was there or thereabouts), so could they also be called a 'flash in the pan moment'?



IMO here but the Yamaha was clearly the better all round package in 2016 with the title decided by a maturing of Marquez who rode superbly on a machine on which he struggled somewhat, as well as some unusual results from Yamaha (failures, crashes) and a mix of weather.
 
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Gaz said:
True ............ to a degree but to then say.



Is rather a straw grab of sorts as 2 of the Honda riders only won a single race and were rather nowhere to be seen in many ways elsewhere (one could argue that Pedrosa was there or thereabouts), so could they also be called a 'flash in the pan moment'?



IMO here but the Yamaha was clearly the better all round package in 2016 with the title decided by a maturing of Marquez who rode superbly on a machine on which he struggled somewhat, as well as some unusual results from Yamaha (failures, crashes) and a mix of weather.
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Yes and no, Capi's results before his win were awful, Pedrosa fared slightly better early season and Crutchlow had a strong latter half. Miller was a one off.
 
Segfault said:
Riding style.

Trouble with armchair racers and internet wannabe pundits is someone somewhere tells something, then it is recited all over the place until everybody starts believing this is the truth.

All, yes ALL MotoGP riders practice motocross. This is important to develop skills to keep sliding bike under control. Stating they ride MotoGP bike "motocross style" is ridiculous.

Rider A can drive smoothly and keep the corner speed, but loses out on brakes. It is fair to say he has his own riding style.
Rider B can outbrake anyone, but can't get it right exiting the corner, losing out on the straights as a result. He has his own style, I agree.
Rider C has all skills in his bag. He can do whatever the bike needs to go fast. He has no riding style, he is too good to be limited just one style.

I'm an old fart who didn't ride a bike for 35 years. Then I moved to Deep South and got myself a Harley. The first day I went out on it I got some rain. I touched the brake and locked up the front at about 50 MPH. It was complete surprise to me, I didn't know the stock Dunlop is such a crap tire. 999 Harley riders out of 1000 could have dropped the bike. My right hand knew what to do even before I became conscious of lockup, the skill I learned when racing, it released the brake and I kept the bike upright.

Now, according to armchair pundits I ride my Harley "sportbike style"?
What a nonsense.
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What is all this? Don't we have enough prima donnas already. I'll even include myself in the count.

A. I really don't think all MotoGP riders practice motocross. Rossi hurt his shoulder doing that, and his home dirt track has ZERO jumps or whoops or bumps of any kind. Perhaps you just meant they ride dirt bikes, and used Motocross like it encompasses all dirt riding, when it really does not. Flat track would be better training for asphalt racing, don't you think?

B. I don't know if I would blame the Dunlop. Perhaps your brake technique was not as stellar as you imagined. You were on a new bike and had not ridden a bike in 35 years. EVEN Hardly brakes have changed in 35 years. Hell, a lot of bikes have ABS, now. Have you noticed? My right hand probably would have done the correct squeeze before the tire locked-up. But, I can talk a lot of .... on the internet, too.

C. Stoner would slide into a corner. That is a style. A flat-track style, in my opinion. He even tapped the back brake to get the bike sliding. He did it on the Ducati and on the Honda.
 
What? That he used the rear brake? Or the reason for using the rear brake? There is a a really good slow motion of him on the Honda using the rear brake while crossing-up the front. Have you seen it? It sure appears that he is initiating a slide.
 
I read an article a while back about Stoner pumping the rear brake while holding the throttle open, was to sort the bad handling if I remembered it right.
 
Iamapony said:
What? That he used the rear brake? Or the reason for using the rear brake? There is a a really good slow motion of him on the Honda using the rear brake while crossing-up the front. Have you seen it? It sure appears that he is initiating a slide.
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An old point of contention between Arrabbiata and Barry Machine.
 
michaelm said:
An old point of contention between Arrabbiata and Barry Machine.
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When the US rained nuclear destruction on Japan, it was over an "old point of contention"...doesn’t quite have the right ring to it.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
 
#22 said:
In 2002, the RCV won 14 of 16 races. 11 of which were Rossi except they weren't as it was the bike. Same applies to 2003 when Honda won 15 of 16 races.

In 2004: Yamaha won 9 of 16 races. So why was it considered a bad bike compared to the Honda? Oh wait, Rossi was riding it.

In 2005: Yamaha won 11 of 16 races. So why was it again considered a bad bike?
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No one else had won a title on the yamaha since 1992 and it had .... results in MotoGP 2002 and 2003. Thats why it was considered a bad bike.

Same thing was said when stoner moved to ducati.
 
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imunderandoverit said:
No one else had won a title on the yamaha since 1992 and it had .... results in MotoGP 2002 and 2003. Thats why it was considered a bad bike.

Same thing was said when stoner moved to ducati.
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Yamaha didn't really make a serious attempt at even building a 990 engine till the 2004 bike.

That said, Rainey was winning till his terrible crash in 1993, albeit using a customer frame, and 2 blokes called Doohan and Rossi riding for Honda, winning 8 titles between them, may have been influential.
 
michaelm said:
Yamaha didn't really make a serious attempt at even building a 990 engine till the 2004 bike.

That said, Rainey was winning till his terrible crash in 1993, albeit using a customer frame, and 2 blokes called Doohan and Rossi riding for Honda, winning 8 titles between them, may have been influential.
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I suspect Rainey would have been finished after 1993 or 1994 at the latest if he never crashes at Misano. Would have been interesting to see him still riding against Mick Doohan. Wonder if it still would have been 5 in a row had Rainey been okay....interesting alternate history to wonder about.
 
I think something that is overlooked as well is that back then Yamaha could test a whole lot more. Now Honda who certainly have a less than perfect bike are in a much worse place trying to turn a bike around than Yamaha was for the '04 season. I think that Hondas choice of test rider is poor as well. Ayoma is so far off the pace I wonder how valuable his input can even be. They dropped the ball big time by not keeping Stoner happy and taking full advantage of his abilities.

If '04 had the same testing restrictions that are I place now were present on '04 I guarantee that Rossis to Yamaha wouldn't have been so smooth and gone so well so early. The Yamaha engineers did a brilliant job but without Rossi(or someone of similar pace) being able to test their work I don't see how they could've had comparable results. Rossi tried fixing a bike when testing restrictions were in place.... How did that go again?
 
p4p1 said:
I think something that is overlooked as well is that back then Yamaha could test a whole lot more. Now Honda who certainly have a less than perfect bike are in a much worse place trying to turn a bike around than Yamaha was for the '04 season. I think that Hondas choice of test rider is poor as well. Ayoma is so far off the pace I wonder how valuable his input can even be. They dropped the ball big time by not keeping Stoner happy and taking full advantage of his abilities.

If '04 had the same testing restrictions that are I place now were present on '04 I guarantee that Rossis to Yamaha wouldn't have been so smooth and gone so well so early. The Yamaha engineers did a brilliant job but without Rossi(or someone of similar pace) being able to test their work I don't see how they could've had comparable results. Rossi tried fixing a bike when testing restrictions were in place.... How did that go again?
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Honda thinks only from the engineering side unfortunately, so keeping Stoner happy was never going to be a priority. Had he not retired, I think would have left HRC as a rider because the same problem happening now would have unfolded for him. Changing the might and direction of Honda is not something one man is going to do. He did mention about Honda not listening to his feedback at Sepang when he tested the 2015 iteration of the RC213V with regards to the engine. He must have picked up on the screamer engine issues that were being masked by the environs of Malaysia, but showed up once temperatures dropped. It took them till 2017 to reverse direction on that engine and go back to a big bang firing order, but their chassis is still ...... up. Kind of astounding how MM won the 2016 title with a 2 year old chassis when you think about it, and is using it 3 years later still with another new engine.
 
"I found my position on bike."
-- Lorenzo.

^^ I do not believe this is the magic key, more like desperation talking.

But we'll see in Austin. A track that suits Ducati well. If Lorenzo really is finally mating with Ducati he should be on podium. Yeah right.
 
Segfault said:
"I found my position on bike."

-- Lorenzo.



^^ I do not believe this is the magic key, more like desperation talking.



But we'll see in Austin. A track that suits Ducati well. If Lorenzo really is finally mating with Ducati he should be on podium. Yeah right.
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You should be riding it instead of JL, you seem to know all the answers...
 
imunderandoverit said:
No one else had won a title on the yamaha since 1992 and it had .... results in MotoGP 2002 and 2003. Thats why it was considered a bad bike.

Same thing was said when stoner moved to ducati.
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Where did you get that from....?

Capirossi was 3rd in 2006 on the Duc, and could have won the title that year had his teammate not taken him out in Barcelona...
Ducati was a very capable package when Stoner arrived in the team in 2007....
 
MigsAngel said:
Where did you get that from....?



Capirossi was 3rd in 2006 on the Duc, and could have won the title that year had his teammate not taken him out in Barcelona...

Ducati was a very capable package when Stoner arrived in the team in 2007....
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The 2007 bike was the first 800cc Ducati, it might share similarities but was definitely a different bike buddy.
 

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