To add fuel here (and I will say now that if JL goes then I am disappointed as one should not quit but accept the challenge), but there have been statements reported 'off the record' that Suzuki may have a seat available in the factory squad in 2018.
Ducati claimed another victim
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Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
While I would like to see Lorenzo win a race there, let's face it, Ducati may decide he isn't worth it and kick him off to the curb. You assume he might quit, but if Ducati decides to let him go, that isn't quitting.
Looking at it purely from Ducati's perspective, you have to make a decision for the best of the team and if letting Lorenzo go is what is best for the team, then it should be done. His albatross contract isn't helping matters either since that's why we see Marco Melandri riding for the WSBK team due to not costing them a dime because of his sponsorship backing.
As a fan while I would be sorry to see him go achieving nothing more than a podium, I would prefer he goes if it means we have a chance to see him at his best again more frequently than appears to be likely at Ducati. The second thing is Dall'Igna has been a huge boon to Ducati IMO, and again as a fan, seeing him lose his job because of Lorenzo's lack of performance would be ....... awful. Ducati does not win any races since the start of 2016 without him there. A competitive Ducati is more important to this sport than Lorenzo.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Why Ducati isn't there yet | Motor Sport Magazine
"...
The problem is poor mid-corner turning during the transition from off-throttle to on-throttle, which is less of an issue at fast, flowing tracks like Mugello.
Ducati has worked on the chassis to fix this, reducing their disadvantage step by step, but it now realises that the final fix must come from the Desmosedici’s engine...
...here comes the Ducati. The rider shuts the throttle, carves through the corner and reopens the throttle. There’s a millisecond of silence, then a cough, a pop and a bang and the bike is gone, in a maelstrom of revs and racket.
That moment’s dead spot is the problem. The Ducati works this way because the desmodromic V4 is the most powerful bike on the grid, which is a good thing, except at very low revs, when the engine actually makes too much power. Ducati Corse engineers try to calm down this excess with electronics, specifically the anti-jerk programme, because MotoGP’s control traction-control software isn’t clever enough to do the job.
Anti-jerk makes the Ducati engine controllable when the rider first touches the throttle, but the dead spot takes away the all-important connection between rider, rear tyre and racetrack. For several milliseconds the rider is flying without wings, so he can’t turn the bike, which compromises his mid-corner speed and corner-exit speed, costing him a vital few hundredths of a second.
“This doesn’t help us,” admits Ducati Corse general manager Gigi Dall’Igna. “It is something we are trying to reduce.”
The factory squad’s team manager Davide Tardozzi goes into more detail: “This is one of the main issues we are working on,” he says. “Absolutely it affects the turning – that’s why we are focused on this problem. Our engine has more power and torque than the other bikes across the rev range. We think this affects the frame a lot. When the riders want to use the first touch of throttle they can’t, because the engine makes too much power, even at the bottom. We need to work on this, but the engines are sealed, so it’s something we need to do, but we can’t do it this year.”
"...
The problem is poor mid-corner turning during the transition from off-throttle to on-throttle, which is less of an issue at fast, flowing tracks like Mugello.
Ducati has worked on the chassis to fix this, reducing their disadvantage step by step, but it now realises that the final fix must come from the Desmosedici’s engine...
...here comes the Ducati. The rider shuts the throttle, carves through the corner and reopens the throttle. There’s a millisecond of silence, then a cough, a pop and a bang and the bike is gone, in a maelstrom of revs and racket.
That moment’s dead spot is the problem. The Ducati works this way because the desmodromic V4 is the most powerful bike on the grid, which is a good thing, except at very low revs, when the engine actually makes too much power. Ducati Corse engineers try to calm down this excess with electronics, specifically the anti-jerk programme, because MotoGP’s control traction-control software isn’t clever enough to do the job.
Anti-jerk makes the Ducati engine controllable when the rider first touches the throttle, but the dead spot takes away the all-important connection between rider, rear tyre and racetrack. For several milliseconds the rider is flying without wings, so he can’t turn the bike, which compromises his mid-corner speed and corner-exit speed, costing him a vital few hundredths of a second.
“This doesn’t help us,” admits Ducati Corse general manager Gigi Dall’Igna. “It is something we are trying to reduce.”
The factory squad’s team manager Davide Tardozzi goes into more detail: “This is one of the main issues we are working on,” he says. “Absolutely it affects the turning – that’s why we are focused on this problem. Our engine has more power and torque than the other bikes across the rev range. We think this affects the frame a lot. When the riders want to use the first touch of throttle they can’t, because the engine makes too much power, even at the bottom. We need to work on this, but the engines are sealed, so it’s something we need to do, but we can’t do it this year.”
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Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
If Lorenzo wants to leave, Ducati may decide to let him go, but I am quite confident that if he wants to stay, Ducati isn't going to cut him loose and swallow the 15 million owed for 2018. A Suzuki -Ducati swap is possible, but again not if Ducati has to eat the difference in contracts and Suzuki sure as .... isn't paying.The only way Lorenzo leaves Ducati at the end of this year is if he agrees to void his contract which he would be a ....... fool to do.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Without knowing the terms of the agreement, it's hard to say whether Ducati has any performance requirements that would give them an escape clause that would not cost them a dime. I do have a feeling if Ducati wants Lorenzo gone, they will get their wish without eating the amount of money you mention.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Priorities... what's more important? Extra cash he'll never spend or a chance to win another championship?
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
His priorities have been established when he left the best bike on the grid. He decided at this point in his career, happiness and a huge check was better than being miserable with a shot at the title. After getting beat by Marquez on an inferior bike, I'm sure the thought passed thru his head that Honda would only get better and his chance of winning the title on tires he hates were not good.Who knew that Honda would lay an egg for the 3rd year in a row.
True, and as I have said a few times, I have money on him so for me, I do not want him to go anywhere until I can win that bet.
As for the quit component, probably my bad as I will lose respect/admiration for him if he quits but if Ducati pull the pin rather than Lorenzo, agreed that it is a totally different scenario.
Either way, in my book it is just another failure of which we have seen a number when people change bikes, situations or categories
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Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
How about....
- Iannone
- Petrucci
- Bautista
- Miller
- Pirro
Personally, i'd like to see Miller on the Ducati
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I dunno. I really do think in his arrogance, Rossi believed he and Burgess could shake out the Ducati and be competitive. If it was about the money - Rossi could have just stayed at Ducati. Instead, he ate crow and used up all his favors and influence to go back to Yamaha to be teammate to Lorenzo - because he wanted to win races. Ego drove him to quit Yamaha and ego it was, that sent him scurrying back there. Not money.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
I am truly puzzled by this Lorenzo/Ducati split speculation. Head to head, Lorenzo is as good as Rossi in their time together on a Yamaha. Ducati have chased Lorenzo since 2009 when they had and let go Casey Stoner. If Ducati are seriously looking at how to get rid of Lorenzo they need their ....... head read, to go and visit the Melandri shrink because honestly there has been no more chaotic rider program than at Ducati.
Do people forget they signed Rossi and JB, the most successful team in the four stroke era, by far the most influential team in the four stroke era, to achieve diddly squat? Exactly what did people think Lorenzo was going to perform, miracles? Unlike Dovi, much as I like him, Ducati can be 100% sure with the right bike they have in Lorenzo a rider that can take it to Marquez, Rossi, and Vinales. Do we forget the Lorenzo that lead every lap for 4 races straight in 2015 and eventually under the most pressure of any champion since 2006 managed to wrap up the title in the last round.
There is no magic bullet rider on the grid any better than Lorenzo. There was maybe one once, but they let him go and he ain't coming back
Do people forget they signed Rossi and JB, the most successful team in the four stroke era, by far the most influential team in the four stroke era, to achieve diddly squat? Exactly what did people think Lorenzo was going to perform, miracles? Unlike Dovi, much as I like him, Ducati can be 100% sure with the right bike they have in Lorenzo a rider that can take it to Marquez, Rossi, and Vinales. Do we forget the Lorenzo that lead every lap for 4 races straight in 2015 and eventually under the most pressure of any champion since 2006 managed to wrap up the title in the last round.
There is no magic bullet rider on the grid any better than Lorenzo. There was maybe one once, but they let him go and he ain't coming back
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Joined Jan 2016
801 Posts | 401+
Uk
This is starting to sound just like the season Rossi returned to Yamaha and struggled, even though he had years of riding Yamaha's. Certain elements of the press were determined to slap a "finished" label on him.
Lorenzo is on a completely different bike that he needs time to get used to. Dovi and Petrux have years of experience on Ducatis that gives them a vital edge on Lorenzo yet, Lorenzo has barely had a dry weekend or two under his belt. Dovi and Lorenzo agree that the turning at mid corner is the main problem with the Ducati, so where's the disagreement in development?
It's well known Lorenzo isn't a press or fans favourite, so it's inevitable that stories discrediting him will surface.
In his interview with Hodgson on bt sports, Lorenzo insisted he's happy and loved at Ducati and says they listen intently to him.
I can't see him leaving of his own accord, he seemed happy and confident he'll get there in time.
Lorenzo is on a completely different bike that he needs time to get used to. Dovi and Petrux have years of experience on Ducatis that gives them a vital edge on Lorenzo yet, Lorenzo has barely had a dry weekend or two under his belt. Dovi and Lorenzo agree that the turning at mid corner is the main problem with the Ducati, so where's the disagreement in development?
It's well known Lorenzo isn't a press or fans favourite, so it's inevitable that stories discrediting him will surface.
In his interview with Hodgson on bt sports, Lorenzo insisted he's happy and loved at Ducati and says they listen intently to him.
I can't see him leaving of his own accord, he seemed happy and confident he'll get there in time.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Simples. Lorenzo's results are less than those from Iaanone. He's too entrenched in his riding style to change, especially at his age. Whoever it is that will come along and take Ducati to another championship, will be some young kid who came up in the ranks riding 4-strokes. I'm sure Marquez would be better - right out of the gate.
Joined Jan 2016
801 Posts | 401+
Uk
Iannnone once again had more experience on a Ducati.
Marquez wasn't available.
Simples...
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
This is a tough one, the only one I would say no without hesitation about is Michele Pirro. He doesn't have the speed to be out there on a full-time basis.
Once he is excluded from that list, of the bunch, I think I would give Jack MIller the nod as well. I don't think Petrucci is consistent enough to warrant a factory ride...he's good when he is on, but that is extremely infrequent. Miller though might be just the guy for the Desmosedici. You need a dirt tracker on that bike IMO...given their corner speed issues, Stoner's proclivities for sliding the bike negated a lot of that, or at least as best as he could. Miller has the right style for that bike. Whether he could come to terms with it is the big unknown. If you want to take another risk, go with Miller. If you need to know what you are getting, getting Iannone back on that bike is the best short-term solution....unless they want to give Chaz Davies a go.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Capirossi, Stoner, Melandri, Hayden, Rossi, Lorenzo. Get another lightbulb you say?
I'll say this, who was the last rider to achieve back to back wins on the Duc? It wasn't Ianone, and it wouldn't be Ianone this year, based on his performance on the Suzuki, or Marquez, based on his performance on the Honda. At this point Ianone would probably have crashed the wingless Duck more times than he'd finished.
If Dovi achieves multiple wins on the Duc this year and contends for the championship then they will have a dilemma, but if Dovi has the one odd inspired win at Mugello on what is undoubtedly his Ducati and that's it there is no doubt, they must and they will redevelop the Ducati around Lorenzo for 2018 to see what he can do.
In the mean time, yeah maybe they will sign some kid as the forth choice rider and get a championship, or maybe lightning will strike Bologna and blow the factory to bits, the odds of either are probably about the same.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Rossi's style was never conducive to the Ducati at the end of the day just like Lorenzo. That was the mistake with that signing and the mistake that is becoming more apparent by the week with Lorenzo. You can cite how well Lorenzo did down the stretch in 2015, or in 2015 in general, but you're also not acknowledging that at a track that Lorenzo has done phenomenally at (Mugello) he had nothing. Petrucci on a satellite GP17 took a podium while Lorenzo was nowhere near podium contention. He even finished behind Marquez who looked like he had brought a knife to a gun fight that afternoon.
To ride the Ducati well requires revamping your entire riding style, and Lorenzo is too old for this now. He can make adjustments yes, but to essentially go back to the drawing board and come up with a brand new riding style? It cannot be done at this point of his career. He has made adjustments that I suspect would benefit him, and be more apparent on another bike at this point. But it's not going to work for the Ducati.
Waiting for Ducati to come up with the right bike for Lorenzo?
I have a better chance of getting a novena from the Pope.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Regarding Capirossi...Wayne Rainey who had Capirossi ride for him 20 years ago said Capirossi was a guy who rode on talent and was never willing to put the effort in required to be a world champion at the top level. He was lazy.
His performance from 2006 to 2007 supports this. The 990cc Desmo GP6 was a good bike and he did well on it because he didn't have to work as hard on it, and could let his talent takeover. Then the 800cc GP7 came a long and was a very difficult bike to ride. He never came close to matching his 2006 performance while his 21 year old teammate was willing to put in the effort and work required to ride that bike and as we know did so to great effect taking 10 wins along with the world title.
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