fast exiting the corner = fast on the straight.
as evidenced by the disparity between stoner and marco.
as evidenced by the disparity between stoner and marco.
Donington GP- practice and quali discussion
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 21 2008, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Funny how the Vegemite flys out of the cabinet when Stoner does well....you guys should support your boy even when DNFs
Haha, Vegemite.
Haha, Vegemite.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 22 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Funny how the Vegemite flys out of the cabinet when Stoner does well....you guys should support your boy even when DNFs
How do you do that? ...... I know you seem to be able to rave about pretty dismal performances but its not really in the Aussie vernacular to say much when there ain't much to write home about
How do you do that? ...... I know you seem to be able to rave about pretty dismal performances but its not really in the Aussie vernacular to say much when there ain't much to write home about
so what happen to James "i have some home track knowledge and pneumatics, soe now i can compete" toseland ??
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Jun 21 2008, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so what happen to James "i have some home track knowledge and pneumatics, soe now i can compete" toseland ??
He fell, and michelin wet tyres are no good.
Rossi was actually consistently quite fast in his last run for 5 or 6 laps; he obviously is not out of it (yes, I know he hardly ever is) even in the wet.
He fell, and michelin wet tyres are no good.
Rossi was actually consistently quite fast in his last run for 5 or 6 laps; he obviously is not out of it (yes, I know he hardly ever is) even in the wet.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Jun 21 2008, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i dont care who wins id like rossi to win but would be boring if he won every dam race, i like to see riders work for the win not have to rely on the electronics so much.
Are you serious?
Don't you think Rossi uses and relies on electronics?
Ofcourse everyone in the field has to do that to keep up.Every team has a bike that they have to beat the others with.To make it fast you use every means nessesary ofcourse,that probarbly includes Fiat Yamaha.
Are you serious?
Don't you think Rossi uses and relies on electronics?
Ofcourse everyone in the field has to do that to keep up.Every team has a bike that they have to beat the others with.To make it fast you use every means nessesary ofcourse,that probarbly includes Fiat Yamaha.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Jun 21 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well done to Spies. Brilliant effort on a bike he's hardly seen at Donnington in the wet on new tyres. Big league for you next year.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...ha_rumours.html
Casey and Spies on the same team would be cool by me.... Even though I don't rate the Texan yet...and I say that because even West went quick in the wet today...so only tomorrow will tell.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...ha_rumours.html
Casey and Spies on the same team would be cool by me.... Even though I don't rate the Texan yet...and I say that because even West went quick in the wet today...so only tomorrow will tell.
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Texas
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Jun 21 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/new...ha_rumours.html
Casey and Spies on the same team would be cool by me.... Even though I don't rate the Texan yet...and I say that because even West went quick in the wet today...so only tomorrow will tell.
Yeah but WEST has been on a GP bike 2 years now..and rode Donny many many times...This was Spies first go at ALL of it.
Casey and Spies on the same team would be cool by me.... Even though I don't rate the Texan yet...and I say that because even West went quick in the wet today...so only tomorrow will tell.
Yeah but WEST has been on a GP bike 2 years now..and rode Donny many many times...This was Spies first go at ALL of it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jun 21 2008, 01:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but there is another thing, you said the Yamaha had high COG? but the first of all, the fight for years has been to lower the cog. The tank you talk about is just a carbon cover for the airfilter, the tank is mainly under the seat. The IL has inherntly a lower COG than the V4. That's one of the few drawbacks witht the V4, it got lots of heavy rotating parts due to it's four cam shafts, and two setts of cam drive train, compared to the IL's 2 shafts and one dive train. Of course the COG might have raised a bit with the pnumatics but I'm not sure it changes it much at all. Heavy springs are just that, heavy. So my bet is that the Yamaha have a lower COG than the old spring valve Honda
I think you are right. Low COG bikes like to high side (in a TC world). Lorenzo has demonstrated that the M1 likes to highside. Likewise Pedrosa has proved the RC212V likes to high side as well. Both Lorenzo and Pedrosa have been masters of the mini-highside. The bike pitches them five feet in the air, the bike low-sides, and then Peders/Lorenzo belly flop on the pavement. I think the M1 is probably low CG.
High CG bikes tuck and lowside (in a TC world). Stoner and Pedrosa must have tucked the RC211V at least 50 times in all their test and practice sessions.
You're right the M1 has low CG;however, Yamaha and Honda (RC212V) prop the rider way up in the seat. It seems that they are using the seat position to counteract the low CG of the bike. So the move to Low CG was probably to centralize the CG of the bike rider combo while increasing the effect the rider has on handling.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Now I'm lost again. No matter how COG influence the lean angle the tire has to cope with the same amount of forces. The bikes lean angle does not alone change that. As you said you increase leverage with higher COG, in that case it's proprtional with the coresponding increased lean angle from a lower COG, the tire has the exact same amount of forces to handle, only thing different is where on the tire the forces attac. Do we agree on that?
There is not any added or substracted forces involved for the tire no matter where the COG is.
The only thing the rider/design can influence is where on the tire these forces work.
Again, keeping the bike vertical does nothing for torsional forces (as long as we are talking about the same thing here, the sentripital force) The sentripetal force does not change, it's a function of speed, radius and mass and has nothing to do with COG of lean angle.
In a world with no yaw, what you've said is true. However, using less lean to make the same turn means the bike is controlling yaw effectively and making more efficient use of the work the tires supply. In theory, leaning the bike less does require less work.
If the tires are working less to make a turn, there is more work available for acceleration.
I will admit though, the efficient use of yaw is probably not nearly as important as the rider's feel. Riders are comfortable spinning the rear on a bike that is close to vertical. Most of them are not keen to risk spinning the rear wheel when the bike is at full lean. TC has changes things a lot though.
I think you are right. Low COG bikes like to high side (in a TC world). Lorenzo has demonstrated that the M1 likes to highside. Likewise Pedrosa has proved the RC212V likes to high side as well. Both Lorenzo and Pedrosa have been masters of the mini-highside. The bike pitches them five feet in the air, the bike low-sides, and then Peders/Lorenzo belly flop on the pavement. I think the M1 is probably low CG.
High CG bikes tuck and lowside (in a TC world). Stoner and Pedrosa must have tucked the RC211V at least 50 times in all their test and practice sessions.
You're right the M1 has low CG;however, Yamaha and Honda (RC212V) prop the rider way up in the seat. It seems that they are using the seat position to counteract the low CG of the bike. So the move to Low CG was probably to centralize the CG of the bike rider combo while increasing the effect the rider has on handling.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Now I'm lost again. No matter how COG influence the lean angle the tire has to cope with the same amount of forces. The bikes lean angle does not alone change that. As you said you increase leverage with higher COG, in that case it's proprtional with the coresponding increased lean angle from a lower COG, the tire has the exact same amount of forces to handle, only thing different is where on the tire the forces attac. Do we agree on that?
There is not any added or substracted forces involved for the tire no matter where the COG is.
The only thing the rider/design can influence is where on the tire these forces work.
Again, keeping the bike vertical does nothing for torsional forces (as long as we are talking about the same thing here, the sentripital force) The sentripetal force does not change, it's a function of speed, radius and mass and has nothing to do with COG of lean angle.
In a world with no yaw, what you've said is true. However, using less lean to make the same turn means the bike is controlling yaw effectively and making more efficient use of the work the tires supply. In theory, leaning the bike less does require less work.
If the tires are working less to make a turn, there is more work available for acceleration.
I will admit though, the efficient use of yaw is probably not nearly as important as the rider's feel. Riders are comfortable spinning the rear on a bike that is close to vertical. Most of them are not keen to risk spinning the rear wheel when the bike is at full lean. TC has changes things a lot though.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 21 2008, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but WEST has been on a GP bike 2 years now..and rode Donny many many times...This was Spies first go at ALL of it.
Yeah...but the way West rides it is like his first time on the bike, and track each time he goes out there....
Yeah...but the way West rides it is like his first time on the bike, and track each time he goes out there....
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 21 2008, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
You forget the Alamo was a major defeat / massacre for the republic of Texas at the hands of a bunch of mexicans...and if you go there today you are better off knowing spanish than english....so maybe not best symbol for Spies...just a thought..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 21 2008, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>8th already !!!!!!
8th that put him in the Middle of the 3rd row of 6 Rows....and has West next to him, Hopper right behind him, and RDP behind him...so I would worry more than rejoice at his grid slot...but lets hope he does make around the first corner tomorrow..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 21 2008, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's going to lap the field by the time Laguna rolls around.
You really think he can out pace by a lap the best of the best....including your Hero Nicky on a Suzuki?
You forget the Alamo was a major defeat / massacre for the republic of Texas at the hands of a bunch of mexicans...and if you go there today you are better off knowing spanish than english....so maybe not best symbol for Spies...just a thought..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 21 2008, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>8th already !!!!!!
8th that put him in the Middle of the 3rd row of 6 Rows....and has West next to him, Hopper right behind him, and RDP behind him...so I would worry more than rejoice at his grid slot...but lets hope he does make around the first corner tomorrow..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 21 2008, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He's going to lap the field by the time Laguna rolls around.
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Texas
Migs stop being a prick and give credit where credit is due...Spies is mid-pack in a field that has WAY more experience than him...
this better? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
PS...
the Alamo is about TEXANS putting up a fight no matter what the odds....meaning we're not ...........we're not French
this better? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
PS...
the Alamo is about TEXANS putting up a fight no matter what the odds....meaning we're not ...........we're not French
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Jun 21 2008, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You forget the Alamo was a major defeat / massacre for the republic of Texas at the hands of a bunch of mexicans...and if you go there today you are better off knowing spanish than english....so maybe not best symbol for Spies...just a thought..
The Alamo was the turning point, but if you think I need to be a bit more outspoken.
Here is what we built to commemorate our win---the world's tallest masonry monument tower. At 570 feet it is approximately as tall as the average Texan.
The Alamo was the turning point, but if you think I need to be a bit more outspoken.
Here is what we built to commemorate our win---the world's tallest masonry monument tower. At 570 feet it is approximately as tall as the average Texan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jun 21 2008, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My only concern is Spies at the mo... and at the MO, he's kicking ... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
let me rephrase that...he's kicking his TEAM-MATES ........a TEXAS boy kicking an Aussie ...
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
Your surprised of some Texas style ... kicking?
Texan on Suzuki, didn't we have that before?
Oh, ya, Kevin Schwantz.
let me rephrase that...he's kicking his TEAM-MATES ........a TEXAS boy kicking an Aussie ...
Your surprised of some Texas style ... kicking?
Texan on Suzuki, didn't we have that before?
Oh, ya, Kevin Schwantz.
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayden Fan @ Jun 21 2008, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your surprised of some Texas style ... kicking?
Texan on Suzuki, didn't we have that before?
Oh, ya, Kevin Schwantz.
Thats Right! Don't .... with TEXAS!
3620:1990Seri...Schwantz.jpg]
Texan on Suzuki, didn't we have that before?
Oh, ya, Kevin Schwantz.
Thats Right! Don't .... with TEXAS!
3620:1990Seri...Schwantz.jpg]
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 22 2008, 04:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Alamo was the turning point, but if you think I need to be a bit more outspoken.
Here is what we built to commemorate our win---the world's tallest masonry monument tower. At 570 feet it is approximately as tall as the average Texan.
We all know everything is bigger and better in the USA.
Here is what we built to commemorate our win---the world's tallest masonry monument tower. At 570 feet it is approximately as tall as the average Texan.
We all know everything is bigger and better in the USA.
Still not big of a fan of Ant West, but like last year in the wet, he is showing his skills. If MotoGP ran in the wet for every race, he might be a legit Grand Prix racer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Jun 21 2008, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Obviously it's so much quicker than anyone else
Well, it's a fact that the Ducati has a acceleration and top speed advantage. It's up to the rider to exploit that advantage.
What do you want to tell us by that pdf, that stoner doesn't have the skill to use it to his advantage?
Well, it's a fact that the Ducati has a acceleration and top speed advantage. It's up to the rider to exploit that advantage.
What do you want to tell us by that pdf, that stoner doesn't have the skill to use it to his advantage?
