Doctored: MotoGP’s Obsession with Valentino Rossi

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MdubSTYLIE said:
Complaining and whining are different in the U.S. Not a lot but whining is childish like a baby, any grown man who whines is well kind of a ...... Whining is throwing a fit, not manly at all. Its always implies negatively on the person whining. But you can have a actual complaint. You can complain because you don't like something but you should never whine.

I mean I chuckled at whole Jerez thing. That was not an example of Casey being whining or a ..... but rather did it really deserve all that? He stood in the rain a clapped. Point taken. That probably even caused the Doc to come into the pit box. Rossi coming in with his helmet on, ..... move. But his apology was an actual apology, debatable I suppose. But the point is the words were real. Caseys response, "hows the shoulder?" Again point taken. And then "well I guess your ambition outweighs your........"point taken. Do you get what I'm saying?
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No problem with his attitude to the Jerez incident at all, the most egregiously stupid move of Rossi's career which led to a period of a couple of hours when I did actually hate Rossi, and was fairly equivalent to Pedrosa's torpedoing of Nicky imo, without the excuses for Pedro at that time of being both a rookie and vaguely still in contention for the championship. Rossi himself punched Max Biaggi after rather less provocation if you recall.

In regard to your other post, whether or not you find or found Stoner's personality winsome, he was pretty much the safest rider out there in the years 2007-2012, with the Bautista pass the race after Sachsenring 2012 the only rough move he made, not that there was danger in that move or that if altered Bautista's result in the race, hypocritical though it may have been for him to pass in that manner after his public stance on such matters. Rossi (despite being overall a demonstrably safe rider) benefited from this on multiple occasions, including the aforementioned Jerez incident, and Laguna Seca 2008 where Stoner avoided a collision twice, the first occasion being the famous corkscrew incident where it was Rossi who lost control and which could have resulted in a fairly high speed collision without Stoner's response.
 
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Gaz said:
And Dubs, the alternate view could find comment after comment from other riders as well, even you have to admit that.

As for the difference between complaining and whining I personally find that somewhat laughable as isn't one the other?

Isn't a complaint a whine or am I missing something in translation between US and Aus (after all, Fanny means totally different things)?

As for his response to the injury, which I assume you mean the infamous comment after being taken out by Rossi, then personally I (like many at the time) thought it a brilliant piece of oneupmanship by a guy trying to be a total ....... to another who had bought a gaggle of news crews with him into another teams pit purely for the sake of a PR exercise.

If you want to talk distasteful, then his reported inquiries regarding (I think it was) Lorenzo's ankles in 2008 are more distasteful. All of which contrasts greatly with his response to Lorenzo's injury in 2011 where he went and visited JL in the medical centre at PI after JL lost the finger.

People need to get over it as he was an extremely complex and highly strung character who bought a lot to the sport, raised a level or two, made Rossi step up further (has since stepped up further again) and continues to be referred to by those in the know as the fastest rider ever, not the best but the fastest.

Oh, and having the fortitude and genuine belief in your reasons for retiring to knock back a confirmed 20 million US offer to ride one more year .......... lets create a list of people who have done that shall we (and there will be some, but there will be far more who will go that extra year or three)
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Well said.
 
Jumkie said:
Disagree J4rno, I think these riders can adapt. A disadvantage is a disadvantage and an advantage is an advantage. These guys have been adapting for years. I think if Marc & Lorenzo exchanged machines the 4-factory machines would remain 1-4 positions on the grid.
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Nope, Marc (like Stoner) needs a bike that can brake deep into the corner, be made to turn with the throttle and then shoot out like a missile. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but if you observe, you do not see any Yamaha (or Suzuki) rider managing point and shoot style, -- it's because these bikes are designed for corner speed.
 
Talpa said:
The article is ...., reads like it's been written by someone from here even. Certainly not of the standards. The author ...... up the year of his injury and in general is spewing out a bunch of verbal diarrhea because firstly he's an Aussie so he got the Stoner Chip on Shoulder built in, and secondly he's an AFL fan crapping on about crazed fans??-nuff said

The answers he's after are right in front of his face, the guy has been racing and mostly winning since 1996 on the world stage, he is very cool, charismatic and like able and has a serious passion for the sport and he gives back- .... it must take a genius to work this out. Maybe this guy should head back to uni write another thesis or two on why grass grows
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I don't know enough about the article author to comment on him, but doesn't this prove the point of what he is saying about the fans?

Whether you agree with it or not, he has written a deeply thought out and researched article, laid out his case of arguments and early on puts the disclaimer that he isn't a Rossi hater, and your response as a Rossi fan is that the article is "...." and then proceed to lambast the author on a personal level. Where's the counter argument? Lorenzo has been racing and mostly winning since 2004 on the world stage yet he does not have the adoration that Rossi has. Sure you could say this is due to maybe having a different character, but the definition of 'cool' and 'likeable' is subjective. Plus lets not forget that unlike some other riders, his actually persona is different to his on screen persona (Waaah I want Bridgestones, Waah I'll go to Ducati if Yam don't push out Lorenzo, Waaaah I want to get off the Ducati). Lorenzo has mostly gotten on with ...., a true likeable trait in my opinion. He's kept with his team and worked through thick and thin. The only real public shitstorm I remember with him was over Simoncelli, and which he (sadly) ultimately proved to be right when saying that if MS didn't calm down, something bad would happen.

xx CURVE xx said:
Was this a writing by Nathaniel Hawthorne?
What kinda of an ...... uses the term "bugbear" anymore ?
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See above. (BTW welcome back Curve)

Dr No said:
Hmmm.
Are the likes of the author bike racing fans or MotoGP fans?
Don't like MotoGP? Get the .... down to your local club race and rediscover what makes it cool. Or ..... Or a money-race. or whatever.
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This is the thing, I was jumping off my sofa yesterday with the battle that was going on, preferring one rider to come out on top but more than that, enjoying the scrapping. You get that much more at club level than MotoGP which is why I like my dose of purity every so often.
 
Two thoughts #22.

1. Rossi's fan base is the result of a perfect storm of events. Baby boomers had acquired wealth and were spending it on motorbikes and other toys. Four strokes ousted two strokes - suddenly most peeps bikes were kinda like MGP bikes. 1995 to 2010 was the golden age of sportbikes and sportbike development for road bikes. 500 channels AND the Internet viewing become reality. After Doohan and Creville, Rossi and the new cast of characters fulfilled a need for the 90210 and Entourage generations. For the casual viewer Rossi was a charismatic winner - something they were societally conditioned to love. So much more, but u get the gist!

2. Do u actually believe that in trying to save the low side MS 'proved' he hadn't 'calmed down'. I call ........ on that theory.
 
xx CURVE xx said:
Was this a writing by Nathaniel Hawthorne?
What kinda of an ...... uses the term "bugbear" anymore ?
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Krops still uses it, to name just one.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/09/28/2015_aragon_sunday_round_up_part_1_of_de.html

A long way behind Iannone, Dovizioso crossed the line in fifth, but very unhappy. The GP15 was a much better bike than its predecessor, he told the media, turning much more easily and holding a line. But it was a very long way from perfect, and sacrificing in some crucial areas to help the bike turn. Braking stability, in particular, was a personal bugbear of Andrea Dovizioso, normally one of his strongest points. Dovizioso had gone from perhaps the toughest braker in the paddock to a rider who had trouble fending others off on the brakes. Without braking stability, there was little he could do, opined Dovizioso.
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Mick D said:
Two thoughts #22.

1. Rossi's fan base is the result of a perfect storm of events. Baby boomers had acquired wealth and were spending it on motorbikes and other toys. Four strokes ousted two strokes - suddenly most peeps bikes were kinda like MGP bikes. 1995 to 2010 was the golden age of sportbikes and sportbike development for road bikes. 500 channels AND the Internet viewing become reality. After Doohan and Creville, Rossi and the new cast of characters fulfilled a need for the 90210 and Entourage generations. For the casual viewer Rossi was a charismatic winner - something they were societally conditioned to love. So much more, but u get the gist!

2. Do u actually believe that in trying to save the low side MS 'proved' he hadn't 'calmed down'. I call ........ on that theory.
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Excellent comeback Mick, agreed on part 1.

2. No, his accident was a racing incident, sadly with the worst consequence. BUT if you hadn't seen the race and had heard that "a rider crashed on lap 1 or 2", then in 2011 the name at the top of that list was Marco Simoncelli. He may have calmed down, but Lorenzo's statement was still right when he said that:

MotoGP News - Lorenzo, Simoncelli exchange words after qualifying

Jorge Lorenzo
It doesn't matter if in the future nothing happens, it is not a problem for me. But if in the future something happens with you it will be a problem.

Marco Simoncelli:
Ok. I will be arrested!

[Laugher from Simoncelli and journalists, Lorenzo not amused].

Jorge Lorenzo
Everyone is laughing, but it is not funny because we are playing with our lives and riding at 200mph. On bikes that are very powerful and very heavy. It is not mini-bikes. It is a dangerous sport, so you have to think what you do.

[Lorenzo looks at Simoncelli and shrugs. Simoncelli nods].
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Mick D said:
Two thoughts #22.

1. Rossi's fan base is the result of a perfect storm of events. Baby boomers had acquired wealth and were spending it on motorbikes and other toys. Four strokes ousted two strokes - suddenly most peeps bikes were kinda like MGP bikes. 1995 to 2010 was the golden age of sportbikes and sportbike development for road bikes. 500 channels AND the Internet viewing become reality. After Doohan and Creville, Rossi and the new cast of characters fulfilled a need for the 90210 and Entourage generations. For the casual viewer Rossi was a charismatic winner - something they were societally conditioned to love. So much more, but u get the gist!

2. Do u actually believe that in trying to save the low side MS 'proved' he hadn't 'calmed down'. I call ........ on that theory.
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Well he was lowsiding out of the first lap because once again he was pushing too hard too early. I absolutely believe he died because of his petulance and immaturity
 
I get #22 and Jorge's point, but the Radhaculous notion above means that MM was petulant and immature at Aragon; Jorge was immature and petulant earlier this season; well virtually every rider has displayed the immaturity and petulance to push too hard early. Marco's unfortunate demise was a racing incident. Trying to attach any of Marco's negative traits to this particular incident is nothing but projection.
 
Mick D said:
I get #22 and Jorge's point, but the Radhaculous notion above means that MM was petulant and immature at Aragon; Jorge was immature and petulant earlier this season; well virtually every rider has displayed the immaturity and petulance to push too hard early. Marco's unfortunate demise was a racing incident. Trying to attach any of Marco's negative traits to this particular incident is nothing but projection.
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I don't think he was ever petulant. I am not sure he was necessarily immature either. He was who he was, which was at least partly a man without fear, which while admirable in a way is also unfortunately a dangerous way to be in motogp bike racing.
 
Mick D said:
I get #22 and Jorge's point, but the Radhaculous notion above means that MM was petulant and immature at Aragon; Jorge was immature and petulant earlier this season; well virtually every rider has displayed the immaturity and petulance to push too hard early. Marco's unfortunate demise was a racing incident. Trying to attach any of Marco's negative traits to this particular incident is nothing but projection.
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Why is it nothing but projection? Because unlike Simoncelli, he managed to win two world championships in spite of riding like a lunatic?

Sure many riders have those petulant and immature traits at one time or another, but MM has a long history of it. Will he change? It's possible. But we've seen a whole slew of dangerous riding events from him even before he showed up in the premier class.

I don't know, but I think Simoncelli's aggressiveness led to him refusing to let go of the bike when he should have just let go. It was such a stupid ....... crash that was avoidable. Oh well.
 
michaelm said:
I don't think he was ever petulant. I am not sure he was necessarily immature either. He was who he was, which was at least partly a man without fear, which while admirable in a way is also unfortunately a dangerous way to be in motogp bike racing.
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Maybe i used the wrong adjectives then? Perhaps a 5 letter word that starts with I and ends with T and rhymes with 22
 

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