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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wander @ Nov 29 2008, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A rider like Nakano could have been definitely something Kawasaki needs right now.
... And wasn't Nakano actually pretty decent with the Kawa when he was driving it?
He was the only decent rider they have had....but to be fair O. Jacque did get a podium for them in China 2005.
... And wasn't Nakano actually pretty decent with the Kawa when he was driving it?
He was the only decent rider they have had....but to be fair O. Jacque did get a podium for them in China 2005.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MigsAngel @ Nov 30 2008, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He was the only decent rider they have had....but to be fair O. Jacque did get a podium for them in China 2005.
That was in the wet though..
Nakano has done it for team green in the dry, and maybe more importantly, in Japan.
That was in the wet though..
Nakano has done it for team green in the dry, and maybe more importantly, in Japan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Nov 30 2008, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That was in the wet though..
Nakano has done it for team green in the dry, and maybe more importantly, in Japan.
on a 990.....
whats he done on an 800?
Nakano has done it for team green in the dry, and maybe more importantly, in Japan.
on a 990.....
whats he done on an 800?
Well, he didn't ride Kawasaki 800cc, but had he done that, maybe he could have developed it to be actually competetive.
Besides, he's been consistent (although not in a winning pace) throughout his career. Rided like that could have done Kawasaki some good.
In any case, I hope they'll be able to get something together with Melandri.
Besides, he's been consistent (although not in a winning pace) throughout his career. Rided like that could have done Kawasaki some good.
In any case, I hope they'll be able to get something together with Melandri.
For all those people who bagged West for the bike's lack of performance after 12 month experience, you all seem a little stupid as most said Melandri was going to do the job, with his 5 odd years experience. Reading this now everyone is now saying it's now the bike and not the rider. As i have said in previous posts....alot of you don't actually follow bike racing, you seem to have jumped on the bandwagon with Rossi and worry more about who's trendy to support than thinking the problem out before posting something....
West was better bang for buck than Hopkins and for what Melandri is being paid....Kawasaki are going to look very stupid this year.
West was better bang for buck than Hopkins and for what Melandri is being paid....Kawasaki are going to look very stupid this year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kosy @ Nov 30 2008, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For all those people who bagged West for the bike's lack of performance after 12 month experience, you all seem a little stupid as most said Melandri was going to do the job, with his 5 odd years experience. Reading this now everyone is now saying it's now the bike and not the rider. As i have said in previous posts....alot of you don't actually follow bike racing, you seem to have jumped on the bandwagon with Rossi and worry more about who's trendy to support than thinking the problem out before posting something....
West was better bang for buck than Hopkins and for what Melandri is being paid....Kawasaki are going to look very stupid this year.
If MOTOGP was all about racing I might actaully agree with you, but as some pointed out, MOTOGP appears to not be totally about racing. Kwanka looks as if they are in it for the commercial appearance more so than they are in it for the racing. Your statement appears very narrow minded and does not incorporate the many faces of MOTOGP. It's hard to comprehend WTF Kwank are doing.
West was not a better bang for the buck.
West was better bang for buck than Hopkins and for what Melandri is being paid....Kawasaki are going to look very stupid this year.
If MOTOGP was all about racing I might actaully agree with you, but as some pointed out, MOTOGP appears to not be totally about racing. Kwanka looks as if they are in it for the commercial appearance more so than they are in it for the racing. Your statement appears very narrow minded and does not incorporate the many faces of MOTOGP. It's hard to comprehend WTF Kwank are doing.
West was not a better bang for the buck.
yeah, if you read what i said i think you missed the point.
all i said in short was, some of you find it easy to slag off some riders and when it comes to the performance of others it's the bikes fault. My reference to people not following bike racing is directed at people who follow motogp because of rossi and it's cool or trendy.
As for commercial reasons thats a new and bigger topic....not many people would buy a Kawasaki of the back of there motogp of wsk results.
As for bang for bucks...West 500k and Hopkins 4m and they finish on the same points. Who would be a better buy. If you read what West said after the season (some might be sour grapes) but he told them the problems early in the season and nothing was done and in the end Kawasaki said he was right but would not address this on the 08 bike........
all i said in short was, some of you find it easy to slag off some riders and when it comes to the performance of others it's the bikes fault. My reference to people not following bike racing is directed at people who follow motogp because of rossi and it's cool or trendy.
As for commercial reasons thats a new and bigger topic....not many people would buy a Kawasaki of the back of there motogp of wsk results.
As for bang for bucks...West 500k and Hopkins 4m and they finish on the same points. Who would be a better buy. If you read what West said after the season (some might be sour grapes) but he told them the problems early in the season and nothing was done and in the end Kawasaki said he was right but would not address this on the 08 bike........
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kosy @ Dec 1 2008, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As far as developing the bike goes, Kawasaki need to sigh up riders that know how to develop a bike. There are not alot about who can do the job but getting some like eg; Troy Corser or Matt Miladin would hold them in good stead to start with.
Corser and Mladin are both riders with failed GP careers and zero experience on 4 stoke gp bikes. I don't think either would be especially suitbale development riders.
Corser and Mladin are both riders with failed GP careers and zero experience on 4 stoke gp bikes. I don't think either would be especially suitbale development riders.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Dec 1 2008, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Corser and Mladin are both riders with failed GP careers and zero experience on 4 stoke gp bikes. I don't think either would be especially suitbale development riders.
Rubbish!
Corser spent 1997 dealing with contractual problems. I think the team started out carrying Power Horse sponsorship and changed halfway to Red Bull. Failed GP career ... it's a bit hard to fail when it never even really started. Corser is acknowledged widely as one of the best in the business when it comes to developing bikes. You don't think BMW didn't have him on the top of their shopping list?! It's what he does ... he rides 4 stroke bikes in a world championship!
Go read Garry's post in another thread on Maladin (re: Cagiva). You might learn something!
Rubbish!
Corser spent 1997 dealing with contractual problems. I think the team started out carrying Power Horse sponsorship and changed halfway to Red Bull. Failed GP career ... it's a bit hard to fail when it never even really started. Corser is acknowledged widely as one of the best in the business when it comes to developing bikes. You don't think BMW didn't have him on the top of their shopping list?! It's what he does ... he rides 4 stroke bikes in a world championship!
Go read Garry's post in another thread on Maladin (re: Cagiva). You might learn something!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (krusty @ Dec 1 2008, 11:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rubbish!
Corser spent 1997 dealing with contractual problems. I think the team started out carrying Power Horse sponsorship and changed halfway to Red Bull. Failed GP career ... it's a bit hard to fail when it never even really started. Corser is acknowledged widely as one of the best in the business when it comes to developing bikes. You don't think BMW didn't have him on the top of their shopping list?! It's what he does ... he rides 4 stroke bikes in a world championship!
Go read Garry's post in another thread on Maladin (re: Cagiva). You might learn something!
Regardless of whether you feel these riders were a victim of circumstance or not is irrrelevant, both of their GP careers failed. My point is that despite these riders experience and reputation for feedback and development skills, both would be significantly hindered by the fact they do not know what a motogp bike is "supposed" to feel like.
Corser spent 1997 dealing with contractual problems. I think the team started out carrying Power Horse sponsorship and changed halfway to Red Bull. Failed GP career ... it's a bit hard to fail when it never even really started. Corser is acknowledged widely as one of the best in the business when it comes to developing bikes. You don't think BMW didn't have him on the top of their shopping list?! It's what he does ... he rides 4 stroke bikes in a world championship!
Go read Garry's post in another thread on Maladin (re: Cagiva). You might learn something!
Regardless of whether you feel these riders were a victim of circumstance or not is irrrelevant, both of their GP careers failed. My point is that despite these riders experience and reputation for feedback and development skills, both would be significantly hindered by the fact they do not know what a motogp bike is "supposed" to feel like.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Dec 1 2008, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what a motogp bike is "supposed" to feel like.
Sorry but that comment.......I don't know what to say.
Do they all feel the same???? WTF
Sorry but that comment.......I don't know what to say.
Do they all feel the same???? WTF
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Dec 1 2008, 04:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Regardless of whether you feel these riders were a victim of circumstance or not is irrrelevant, both of their GP careers failed. My point is that despite these riders experience and reputation for feedback and development skills, both would be significantly hindered by the fact they do not know what a motogp bike is "supposed" to feel like.
but is that really a hindrance?
If you know how to develop a bike just like everyone else, do you have a competitive advantage of any kind? I think people who are successful racers do things a bit differently than everyone else. Valentino would probably be a good example.
but is that really a hindrance?
If you know how to develop a bike just like everyone else, do you have a competitive advantage of any kind? I think people who are successful racers do things a bit differently than everyone else. Valentino would probably be a good example.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeePee @ Dec 1 2008, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry but that comment.......I don't know what to say.
Do they all feel the same???? WTF
All i am suggesting is that a superbike is an inferior refrence point to a well sorted GP bike. Additionally we all know that science experiments are most successful when the amount of variables in reduced. An inexperienced GP rider would have to adapt to a different environment, riding style, tracks and competition level. These would all seem to be reasons why teams like Kawasaki and Suzuki look for riders like Capirossi and Gibernau before they look to grab superbike riders.
Do they all feel the same???? WTF
All i am suggesting is that a superbike is an inferior refrence point to a well sorted GP bike. Additionally we all know that science experiments are most successful when the amount of variables in reduced. An inexperienced GP rider would have to adapt to a different environment, riding style, tracks and competition level. These would all seem to be reasons why teams like Kawasaki and Suzuki look for riders like Capirossi and Gibernau before they look to grab superbike riders.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kosy @ Nov 30 2008, 09:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yeah, if you read what i said i think you missed the point.
all i said in short was, some of you find it easy to slag off some riders and when it comes to the performance of others it's the bikes fault. My reference to people not following bike racing is directed at people who follow motogp because of rossi and it's cool or trendy.
As far as the double standard goes, I would have to agree with you. We had this same debate with Stoner, Hayden, Rossi, etc. Is it the bike, tires, rider? I also wholheartedly agree that Westy did not get a fair shake in MOTOGP. But this game is tough and he wasn't the first to go down like this and he won't be the last.
The mindless Rossi cheerleaders aren't really prevelant on this board, they all flock over to crash. Rossi cheerleaders on this board are actually quite knowledge about the sport and have a very insightful understanding of such things. Mind you, there are a few that are just .... and belong on crash.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>As for commercial reasons thats a new and bigger topic....not many people would buy a Kawasaki of the back of there motogp of wsk results.
Huh
Results sells bikes. I agree, but so do other factors. I am bisased cause I live in America, but I do know people that buy Repsol and now Ducati just because Hayden is on the bike. More or less the same with Hopkins.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>As for bang for bucks...<u>West 500k and Hopkins 4m and they finish on the same points. Who would be a better buy</u>. If you read what West said after the season (some might be sour grapes) but he told them the problems early in the season and nothing was done and in the end Kawasaki said he was right but would not address this on the 08 bike........
Once again, if results were the only thing that sold bikes I would agree. However, John brought a large american market and also a large fan base, West brought neither. Hopkins brought a large sponsor (Monster) West brought neither.
It would be interesting to see the figures on Hopkins 4m, market impact, results, and sponsors vs West 500k, market impact, results, and sponsor. I guess we just disagree on who comes out ahead in this race.
edit: I'm not saying throw Michael Jordan on a bike and let him granny ride the thing around the track cause he could sell bikes. Although, Ducati is enjoying the publicity of another Michael S joyriding their bike around the track. That .... sells, man.
all i said in short was, some of you find it easy to slag off some riders and when it comes to the performance of others it's the bikes fault. My reference to people not following bike racing is directed at people who follow motogp because of rossi and it's cool or trendy.
As far as the double standard goes, I would have to agree with you. We had this same debate with Stoner, Hayden, Rossi, etc. Is it the bike, tires, rider? I also wholheartedly agree that Westy did not get a fair shake in MOTOGP. But this game is tough and he wasn't the first to go down like this and he won't be the last.
The mindless Rossi cheerleaders aren't really prevelant on this board, they all flock over to crash. Rossi cheerleaders on this board are actually quite knowledge about the sport and have a very insightful understanding of such things. Mind you, there are a few that are just .... and belong on crash.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>As for commercial reasons thats a new and bigger topic....not many people would buy a Kawasaki of the back of there motogp of wsk results.
Huh
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>As for bang for bucks...<u>West 500k and Hopkins 4m and they finish on the same points. Who would be a better buy</u>. If you read what West said after the season (some might be sour grapes) but he told them the problems early in the season and nothing was done and in the end Kawasaki said he was right but would not address this on the 08 bike........
Once again, if results were the only thing that sold bikes I would agree. However, John brought a large american market and also a large fan base, West brought neither. Hopkins brought a large sponsor (Monster) West brought neither.
It would be interesting to see the figures on Hopkins 4m, market impact, results, and sponsors vs West 500k, market impact, results, and sponsor. I guess we just disagree on who comes out ahead in this race.
edit: I'm not saying throw Michael Jordan on a bike and let him granny ride the thing around the track cause he could sell bikes. Although, Ducati is enjoying the publicity of another Michael S joyriding their bike around the track. That .... sells, man.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kosy @ Dec 1 2008, 01:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For all those people who bagged West for the bike's lack of performance after 12 month experience, you all seem a little stupid as most said Melandri was going to do the job, with his 5 odd years experience. Reading this now everyone is now saying it's now the bike and not the rider. As i have said in previous posts....alot of you don't actually follow bike racing, you seem to have jumped on the bandwagon with Rossi and worry more about who's trendy to support than thinking the problem out before posting something....
West was better bang for buck than Hopkins and for what Melandri is being paid....Kawasaki are going to look very stupid this year.
Just the right tread to try starting a Rossi cheerleader flame war. Here there are mainly Hayden and Stoner fans, some rather neutral but very knowledgable posters, none of the die hard Rossi fans (that commenting directly about melandri and west) and here you state they are all Rossi boopers that doesn't know .... about racing!
Just slightly off target. Priceless.
West was better bang for buck than Hopkins and for what Melandri is being paid....Kawasaki are going to look very stupid this year.
Just the right tread to try starting a Rossi cheerleader flame war. Here there are mainly Hayden and Stoner fans, some rather neutral but very knowledgable posters, none of the die hard Rossi fans (that commenting directly about melandri and west) and here you state they are all Rossi boopers that doesn't know .... about racing!
Just slightly off target. Priceless.
Does anyone on this forum know of what Kawasaki successes are ?
History ?
I dont really know, all I know is, when I was considering which 600 to buy a good friend and good rider said to me, well what kawasaki ever won ?
Not that much me thinks !!!!!!!!!!
History ?
I dont really know, all I know is, when I was considering which 600 to buy a good friend and good rider said to me, well what kawasaki ever won ?
Not that much me thinks !!!!!!!!!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Dec 1 2008, 11:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Does anyone on this forum know of what Kawasaki successes are ?
History ?
I dont really know, all I know is, when I was considering which 600 to buy a good friend and good rider said to me, well what kawasaki ever won ?
Not that much me thinks !!!!!!!!!!
Production racing wise (those are the bikes we buy) they have more superbike world championships than Yamaha
And Pitts first supersport title. Plus a handful of national titles.
History ?
I dont really know, all I know is, when I was considering which 600 to buy a good friend and good rider said to me, well what kawasaki ever won ?
Not that much me thinks !!!!!!!!!!
Production racing wise (those are the bikes we buy) they have more superbike world championships than Yamaha
