dani - weight advantage or not???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Feb 21 2007, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They (HRC) can compensate the suspension to fit his weight. So loading the front or back is not justified.

Every rider can have an + or a - to the physics of riding/racing. He already proved last year that he can win right! Although Puig would like us to believe his size is holding him back.
I also call them both PRICKS!

^^ Please tell us how you really feel.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 21 2007, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Tom, I don’t mean to be bellicose. I think I already said my peace on the topic. Respect is a loaded word. I don't know how else to explain it to you. There are plenty of athletes that do fantastic feats, but simply because they have the talent doesn't mean one should automatically give "respect". I find it much more meaningful to have respect earned beyond the scope of the sport at face value. I am aware that of course, we may not be too privy to what goes on beyond the surface; which means we only get a cursory sketch to go on. Having said that though, I personally perceive what I can and from that I render my conclusion as to who I do and who I don’t respect. Pedrosa is not somebody I have significant respect for at the moment, but I'm open to it as I have said before, however, Alberto Puig is not somebody I respect. Better?

Back on topic. I think there is a bit of an advantage regarding his weight and stature. But it's not his fault. But it maybe the fault of the powers that be if they in fact did change the rules to benefit a rider. Who knows. If he were to win though, I would not say it was due to an un-fair advantage.

Yes i understand, and lets not get into it again. I am in agreement with you and puig doesn't get much respect from me but i am a little disapointed that you and others have condemned dani based on one mistake even though evidence from his entire career before or since shows he is nothing but respect worthy.

Back on topic again, i agree with you that i think any advantage dani gains over other riders he gains with his riding skill, and i will not be blaming weight advantages when dani beats people, because that isnt fair.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Feb 22 2007, 12:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They (HRC) can compensate the suspension to fit his weight. So loading the front or back is not justified.

What i am saying is that a bigger, and heavier rider will be able to have a larger affect on where the centre of gravity of the bike and rider as a unit acts. And having that on their side does affect what the bike can and cannot do. So he may have a slight acceleration disadvantage, but the heavier riders technically have more control.

I'd say overall his weight advantage is nothing and it makes an insignificant difference compared to other factors like riding skill. His size is more of a talking point in my eyes, he was disadvantaged last year, things are slightly mre in his favour now, so lets see what happens

im sure we've had this debate before,
pedders height - definately an advantage.
but heavier weights i believe are better... more weight, more traction ... simple. Better control in the corners.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Feb 21 2007, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Disadvantage, advantage, short, tall, fat, skinny.....matters not.

Dani is still a PRICK.
Pretty much coverred it all their,mister!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Feb 21 2007, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting that Puig says Hayden is the one to beat. You always want to beat your teammate more than anyone else on the grid race day.

well thats always the main aim isnt it, and seeing as nicky is the champ its even more important. however, as much as i like nicky, i still think the man to beat is rossi.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 21 2007, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think Alberto Puig is probably not the guy you want an unbiased opinion from in regards to Pedrosa.

you dont say lol at 'times' that man is a complete ..... but i thought he had a point here...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChemiKaze @ Feb 21 2007, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>based on seeing how he performed last year, I think Pedrosa is actually at a disadvantage when he is in hand-to-hand combat with the other racers as he cannot use brute force... so all that he has for him is to get out in front and try to leave the others behind.

definately. take that battle with rossi that we waited so long to see last season, he was great for a couple of laps but he dropped off after that and there was no chance. and if clearing off gets him the win then why not?!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Feb 21 2007, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Disadvantage, advantage, short, tall, fat, skinny.....matters not.

Dani is still a PRICK.

yeah, its comments like these that are stupid, pointless and pathetic. whether you like dani or not is not the point, my point was what do you think about the article.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 21 2007, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Harsh man, like him or not he is worthy of respect.

my point exactly...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Feb 21 2007, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Tom, I don’t mean to be bellicose. I think I already said my peace on the topic. Respect is a loaded word. I don't know how else to explain it to you. There are plenty of athletes that do fantastic feats, but simply because they have the talent doesn't mean one should automatically give "respect". I find it much more meaningful to have respect earned beyond the scope of the sport at face value. I am aware that of course, we may not be too privy to what goes on beyond the surface; which means we only get a cursory sketch to go on. Having said that though, I personally perceive what I can and from that I render my conclusion as to who I do and who I don’t respect. Pedrosa is not somebody I have significant respect for at the moment, but I'm open to it as I have said before, however, Alberto Puig is not somebody I respect. Better?

Back on topic. I think there is a bit of an advantage regarding his weight and stature. But it's not his fault. But it maybe the fault of the powers that be if they in fact did change the rules to benefit a rider. Who knows. If he were to win though, I would not say it was due to an un-fair advantage.

we have crossed paths on this subject before havent we its pretty clear you dont like dani and thats fine. you have a valid opinion here and i mostly agree with you - about the possible advantage.

You know whats funny, is that when Dani came into MotoGP I can remember everyone going on about how much of a disadvantage his size would be. How things have changed...

i think the larger person has the advantage because there able to steer the bike with there body weight using less effort, you could say the lighter person has the power to weight ratio advantage but bare in mind these bikes dont generaly use 100% of there power anyway.
dani isnt the only pint sized rider in the paddock, capi and mcCoy are small to, before someone get padantic,i no mcCoy isnt riding motogp at this moment. but he used to man handle the 500's well enough so i dont think the small guys have a massive disadvantage but i dont remember one being a champ.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Orrmate @ Feb 25 2007, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You know whats funny, is that when Dani came into MotoGP I can remember everyone going on about how much of a disadvantage his size would be. How things have changed...

indeed, people doubted he would be able to last a whole race

Lighter is faster,its physics people.Straits,corners,it doesnt matter.He isnt champion because he is not as good as Rossi or for that matter Hayden last year.If you dont think its an advantage,see what they would think if the other teams were allowed to drop 30 pounds off their bikes.I know this not a perfect anology but Nascar states the car must weigh a certain amount with driver in the car.It was rule instituted because of Jeff Gordons tiny stature.By him weighing 70 pounds lighter than most other drivers it was determined he had a competitive advantage.That was in a 3300 lb car,imagine what 35-40 lbs difference would make on a 320 lb bike

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Feb 28 2007, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lighter is faster,its physics people.Straits,corners,it doesnt matter.He isnt champion because he is not as good as Rossi or for that matter Hayden last year.If you dont think its an advantage,see what they would think if the other teams were allowed to drop 30 pounds off their bikes.I know this not a perfect anology but Nascar states the car must weigh a certain amount with driver in the car.It was rule instituted because of Jeff Gordons tiny stature.By him weighing 70 pounds lighter than most other drivers it was determined he had a competitive advantage.That was in a 3300 lb car,imagine what 35-40 lbs difference would make on a 320 lb bike

Povol, in your introduction I couldn’t believe my ears, and now I cannot believe them again! Excellent point, I intended to change my bikes exhaust just to drop 3 kg and be a bit lighter on track.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Feb 28 2007, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lighter is faster,its physics people.Straits,corners,it doesnt matter.


but Nascar states
Sounds like the laws of physics don't apply on the track (as some would lead us to believe).


Hey Povol, I don't think you are gonna get too many believers comparing things to Nascar. It seems to be a bad 6 letter word here on this site. Not to many appreciate this series of racing. I get it... but then again, some think F1 is all that.

BTW: welcome to the site.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 25 2007, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think the larger person has the advantage because there able to steer the bike with there body weight using less effort
Sounds like you would do pretty good on the track Rog...with all that extra weight you got, hell the bike might magically steer itself, eh?

The difference between Dani and the other riders will be tiny, so many factors effect how a rider gets out of a corner that it would be impossible to pinpoint weight as having a particularly large affect. Plus it would be considerably more unfair to put Ballast in danis bike and make him muscle that around. Body weight is soo much easier to shift than a heavier bike. So as it is the rules are pretty damn right and nothing needs to be done.

Why isn't there a minimum weight rule?

I thought they had it in 250's and 125's....or am I thinking domestically?

They have it in 125, but not 250cc world championship.

max is about the same size as dani. it did'nt seem to give him any greater advantage.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 1 2007, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>it would be considerably more unfair to put Ballast in danis bike and make him muscle that around. Body weight is soo much easier to shift than a heavier bike.

So as it is the rules are pretty damn right and nothing needs to be done.
i agree with the first bit,adding ballast could prove dangerous is is not fair because of other varioables,

i only disagree with the second part because i dont believe there should be weight restrictions in prototype racing. getting the weight down is quite often harder that tuning more power ,i no it could put poorer teams at a disadvantage but so can many other things in racing at this level,
lm interested to no others thoughs on this.

i agree rog. prototype racing should mean the sky's the limit. no restrictions.

No way, you guys talk about how you don't want motogp to be like F1, but if there was no weight limit then we would just watch the wealthiest team win every race. A weight limit is just the same as a capacity limit. Some parameters are needed to keep things safe and on the ground.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 1 2007, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No way, you guys talk about how you don't want motogp to be like F1, but if there was no weight limit then we would just watch the wealthiest team win every race. A weight limit is just the same as a capacity limit. Some parameters are needed to keep things safe and on the ground.
nah. the human factor will always trump this in motogp. u can't compare fnone to gps

All i am saying is that the more relaxed the rules are the more spread out the performances will be. Think, a one make series will ive close racing, a totally open series leads to trophies being assigned based on the size of each teams bank balance. Not good. I think the current system is pretty good.