Casey Stoner is Dr Who

Bunyip said:

990s- I think the cream rises to the top, so I would rank the aliens+Spies probably above Hayden

Pedrocycles-ditto

Ducatis- Hayden is riding it quite well now, but then it is his second year. Give the rest of the field the same time to adapt and I still think there would be 5+ ahead of NH.



Just my opinion.

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Ur opinion stinks



990s ur cream theory, Hayden top three, reality.

Pedrocycle, enuf said.

Ducati, so according to u, if all 4 "aliens" switched bikes for a year theyd all be winning races like now? Haha. O....k. (sarcasm) All speculative, so no need to argue, but i think u may b ignoring the experience everybody has had on Duc. Review the following rider's credential BEFORE Duc, then DURING Duc: Medandri, Elias, Kalio.



Anyway, all fun to speculate, so whatever bro.

Bunyip said:

Lex, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet over many things right now. To me there is a belligerent streak in you now, or is that an overly harsh assessment

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Times are bad, and honestly, almost all negative externalities in my life can be traced to 2007. A really awful political party (ideas aren't so bad, but the party is just plain rotten) took control of the Congress and then the presidency. Texas Franchise Tax reared its ugly head for LLC's and PCs. MotoGP switched from the best formula it has ever been, to the worst formula it has ever been. Other personal crap that doesn't really matter.



Lots of stuff needs to be reformed, re-imagined, and modified in order to reverse the effects of some bad ideas from the past, but every time I turn around, someone is attempting to seed another bad idea in the freshly scorched earth. My favorite entertainment property doesn't exist anymore, my country is in terrible shape, business is pretty awful, and I'm not really affected by it so I'm treated to the wonderful sensation of watching other people suffer. Just when I think I've gone as crazy as I can go, someone proposes another "good idea" and I get pushed over the edge. Today, the greening of MotoGP was a bridge too far.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.---C.S. Lewis

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At times like this it is very important to focus on what you know. You know what we know? 24L 990s are relatively cheap and very entertaining. 21L 800s are expensive and they haven't produced much good racing. I know some people have to be dragged kicking and screaming into this simple reality. I know we aren't going back to the 990s or 24L of fuel.



I also know that Stoner does retaliate when people say dumb things about him which means he does hold a grudge and he is vindictive (in the short term at least). I also know that the fuel-limited MotoGP formula is completely different than any previous MotoGP formula. Lorenzo is the first rider to have won a fuel-limited title without having ridden a 990 or a 500 earlier in his career. Lorenzo has not made the same rite of passage as the champions who've come before, and acknowledging as much is not a personal condemnation of the man.



I don't have a bee in my bonnet. North is north. South is south. East is east. West is west. Spade is a spade. Vindictive is vindictive.



Stoner is the alien. Why didn't he win? B/c he is inconsistent. Why? B/c the Ducati was iffy this season and b/c Stoner is under more pressure than everyone else b/c he is intentionally anti-establishment and somewhat vindictive which means he plays ...-for-tat with his detractors. Am I trying to be harsh? If it's harsh, it's b/c Casey Stoner's professional persona is abrasive and harsh. Am I trying to insult him? No, I'm saying he is a gritty person who doesn't play the corporate game. Am I saying he's unprofessional? No, I'm saying he likes home and time with his wife. Am I claiming he's a jingoistic troglodyte? No..............



...............Casey Stoner is Beelzebub.



I trust we can move on now that everyone understands my thoughts on the matter.

Casey Stoner said:

No, Lex, you are Beelzebub

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Okay, NOW we can move on.

Jumkie said:

Pedrocycle, enuf said.

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Did you know he was second at his debut race on the 990?

Bunyip said:

Firstly, no more discussion from me about the fairness of your assessment of Casey.



My first reaction to your bad period was empathy, as I,ve had a difficult few years too..............borrowed aginst house to buy shares that halved in price, and almost sent me broke. But unfortunately, I may represent the opposite viewpoint. I have felt a lot of frustration with local ( Australian) politics, but for opposite reasons. I have seen a basically sound and capable government ( that took the required actions to keep our economy out of recession), constantly discredited by the Murdoch press empire, and at the same time hamstrung by an obstructive, reactionary and belligerent opposition leader. (Funnily enough a man that professes to be highly religious, but who, in fact, has the morals of a serial- killer. In a nutshell ( because if we were to continue discussing this aspect we should leave this section of the forum), the republican side of american politics scares the .... out of me (not to mention the thought of Sarah Palin as president- woops there goes the world as WW3 arrives), and it is a pleasure to see the "party boy" (and villiage .....) Bush replaced by an intelligent articulate man, attempting to repair the mess created by rampant unregulated capitalism (dodgy banking practices) and by belligerent neo-cons (Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld) that actually created the environment for middle eastern and muslim antagonism towards the USA and its allies,resulting in the terrorist acts and constant fear of terrorism. If only the US jewish lobby didn,t have so much influence on USA policy so that blatently unimpartial (partial) politics has been played out in the middle east, leading to resentment by many arabs and muslims, and fomenting anger that ultimately materialised in the form of al-Qaeda. Poor Obama is trying to clean up the mess that Bush aand his cronies created. I know you will disagree with me, but then you would be wrong

................continue this in the bar?

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I've got to disagree on this one. All that capable government has done is wasted money saved by the previous government, borrowed and is borrowing huge amounts of other money, and certainly didn't save us from a recession, that was a combination of the savings of the previous government (some 40bn of savings plundered which the current government is now on their way to 90bn debt), the resources that we export to China and India, and the strength of our banking system. Nothing to do with the current government which has been typified by waste - least of all building a few school buildings and throwing away a third of the money as waste. They have now jumped into bed with the ridiculous greenies who want to tax the .... out of everything, tax trusts as companies, legalise every drug they can think of, and send us all out into fields to hug the trees that are left. Don't start me on the NBN either. I know it will let us reply quicker on this forum however I would never sign up for it unless it was the same price for better performance. It will be a black hole of expenditure for years.



Now on the other side of politics, I think the opposition leader was both the reason they got so close at the last election and the reason that they lost. He polarises people which means he missed some of the marginal swinging voters who didn't like his sometimes strong views. Bring back Johnny (John Howard) I say - he isn't dead yet and he's probably looking for work after getting knocked back with the ICC, the corrupt organisation that is.

The longer the current government (Labor controlled by the Greens) stays in power, the harder my work is. I have clients who are that brainless that they setup a structure which provides among other things, tax advantages, and then they vote for the greens who want to take those advantages away.

mylexicon said:

At times like this it is very important to focus on what you know. You know what we know? 24L 990s are relatively cheap and very entertaining. 21L 800s are expensive and they haven't produced much good racing.

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24L 990s WERE relatively cheap and very entertaining. That is in the past, and although i agree with your basic observations i think it'd be foolish to think that if we went back to 990's now things would go back to how they were or that the costs would shrink at all.

didn't the teams have to spend double the amount compared to 500cc in the 990 days?

bearing in mind how little relevance gp racing has for road bikes we should ask ourselves whether the two strokes were that out of place after all



but this is getting a bit off topic



conclusion : stoner's da bomb ,hayden will go down in history as maybe the only world champion to not be given credit for his talent ,lorenzo can go back to kindergarten and dream about riding with the big boys on real bikes, isn't that right lex

mylexicon said:

I don't complain that the sport is increasingly complicated. I complain that a human/mechanical sport has been turned into a software engineering contest. The rider's job is increasingly complicated b/c the rider spends less time developing his own skill and more time looking at charts and graphs for setup. The sport itself is becoming less complicated. No more engineering conundrums about how to mate a 24L 990cc engine with a chassis and tires. Everyone knows the game now. Better fuel efficiency. More rigid chassis all the time. Less braking and more cornerspeed b/c there isn't enough fuel for anything else.



You can perform fellatio on Lorenzo all you want. I said he's not fit to sit at the table b/c he hasn't made the rite of passage, and unfortunately for him, his ascension has come at a time when Spanish jingoism has been fueling MotoGP. It's an opinion based upon a very radical formula change and the rise of electronic throttle control which many riders have spoken out against. I didn't write the 21L rule, and it's not my job to pretend that this is the same sport that existed 50 years or even 5 years ago. Honda are playing Group C b/c they miss the 1980s.



None of this has anything to do with me. I'm simply interpreting facts. You don't have to agree, but you at least have to see what's going on. Yes, Lorenzo did great; he's probably a great rider, but this isn't the sport we've been watching/studying for the last 50 years. Lorenzo has his own table b/c he never rode a 990cc in competition. The sooner we get rid of these stupid fuel rules and bore-cylinder rules, the sooner we will regain GP racing, and the sooner Lorenzo can sit at the real table with the other champs.

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Nicely said Lex. Good post

As much a we don't like it - MGP is what Dorna says it is. We all sound like a bunch of old hippies mourning the '60s.

woody996 said:

I've got to disagree on this one. All that capable government has done is wasted money saved by the previous government, borrowed and is borrowing huge amounts of other money, and certainly didn't save us from a recession, that was a combination of the savings of the previous government (some 40bn of savings plundered which the current government is now on their way to 90bn debt), the resources that we export to China and India, and the strength of our banking system. Nothing to do with the current government which has been typified by waste - least of all building a few school buildings and throwing away a third of the money as waste. They have now jumped into bed with the ridiculous greenies who want to tax the .... out of everything, tax trusts as companies, legalise every drug they can think of, and send us all out into fields to hug the trees that are left. Don't start me on the NBN either. I know it will let us reply quicker on this forum however I would never sign up for it unless it was the same price for better performance. It will be a black hole of expenditure for years.



Now on the other side of politics, I think the opposition leader was both the reason they got so close at the last election and the reason that they lost. He polarises people which means he missed some of the marginal swinging voters who didn't like his sometimes strong views. Bring back Johnny (John Howard) I say - he isn't dead yet and he's probably looking for work after getting knocked back with the ICC, the corrupt organisation that is.

The longer the current government (Labor controlled by the Greens) stays in power, the harder my work is. I have clients who are that brainless that they setup a structure which provides among other things, tax advantages, and then they vote for the greens who want to take those advantages away.

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We probably should keep australian politics which are even more boring and prosaic than international politics out of the forum. However, I go more towards bunyip's than yours, with the exception of the nbn which I agree is dodgy, and the greens who I agree are extremely dodgy. I particularly agree with him about rupert's dark hand.



Our government debt was always negligible and is negligible now, to the extent that the australian banks will have to ask for exemptions from new international covenants post the gfc because there is not enough australian government debt for them to take up, and that a visiting eminent economist when questioned recently about the problem of australian goverment debt asked if the question was a joke. Any debt little johnny did clear was by the one -off strategy of selling off the farm rather than fiscal rectitude, and much of the proceeds of this which was well in excess of the debt went for middle class welfare (ie a stimulus) and pork-barrelling in a boom time which would seem harder to justify than a stimulus applied in the time of the worst global financial crisis for 80 years. He did put money into the future fund to cover government superannuation requirements, which may have been for sound motives but does have the advantage of covering the entitlements of retired politicians among other benificiaries. Private debt is another matter, but neither side of politics seems to be concerned about this.



What I absolutely can't abide is the politicisation of the boat people who are few in number by international standards (and australian standards if you consider entry by air) and who are by any measure unfortunate and desperate human beings, and the incitement to racism which I thought we had gotten over which this involves.

Wow, a real discussion about Australian politics. Hahaha, I love powerslide! Carry on folks.

Bunyip said:

Firstly, no more discussion from me about the fairness of your assessment of Casey.



My first reaction to your bad period was empathy, as I,ve had a difficult few years too..............borrowed aginst house to buy shares that halved in price, and almost sent me broke. But unfortunately, I may represent the opposite viewpoint. I have felt a lot of frustration with local ( Australian) politics, but for opposite reasons. I have seen a basically sound and capable government ( that took the required actions to keep our economy out of recession), constantly discredited by the Murdoch press empire, and at the same time hamstrung by an obstructive, reactionary and belligerent opposition leader. (Funnily enough a man that professes to be highly religious, but who, in fact, has the morals of a serial- killer. In a nutshell ( because if we were to continue discussing this aspect we should leave this section of the forum), the republican side of american politics scares the .... out of me (not to mention the thought of Sarah Palin as president- woops there goes the world as WW3 arrives), and it is a pleasure to see the "party boy" (and villiage .....) Bush replaced by an intelligent articulate man, attempting to repair the mess created by rampant unregulated capitalism (dodgy banking practices) and by belligerent neo-cons (Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld) that actually created the environment for middle eastern and muslim antagonism towards the USA and its allies,resulting in the terrorist acts and constant fear of terrorism. If only the US jewish lobby didn,t have so much influence on USA policy so that blatently unimpartial (partial) politics has been played out in the middle east, leading to resentment by many arabs and muslims, and fomenting anger that ultimately materialised in the form of al-Qaeda. Poor Obama is trying to clean up the mess that Bush aand his cronies created. I know you will disagree with me, but then you would be wrong

................continue this in the bar?

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Yep, Islamic terrorism was born in November of 2000. Unbelievable that someone can be so misinformed.What are you, 12. Islamic terrorism has been around for some 1300 years, but who is counting. If thats to far back, look up the word Israel, you can probably find some info on Islamic terrorism that goes back to their 60+ years of existence. If that is ancient history to a 12 year old, you can find info regarding Islamic terrorism in the 60's 70's 80's, and 90's as well. American interest have been the target of radical Islam since way before 9-11. Im sure recess is over by now, you need to get back inside, and for gods sake, quit sleeping in history class.

LMFAO at the above - Pov = Worlds best perosn in politics..end of!!



On one of the posts above - Lorenzo will do just fine on the bigger bikes as they will require the same style of riding the current playstations will. Thus we will be treated to more of the same ......

povol said:

Yep, Islamic terrorism was born in November of 2000. Unbelievable that someone can be so misinformed.What are you, 12. Islamic terrorism has been around for some 1300 years, but who is counting. If thats to far back, look up the word Israel, you can probably find some info on Islamic terrorism that goes back to their 60+ years of existence. If that is ancient history to a 12 year old, you can find info regarding Islamic terrorism in the 60's 70's 80's, and 90's as well. American interest have been the target of radical Islam since way before 9-11. Im sure recess is over by now, you need to get back inside, and for gods sake, quit sleeping in history class.

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Hate to say it Pov - but this is a very short-sighted view on Islamic terrorism. I'm not in favor of it of course

but - to refer to the actions of Muslims in centuries past as "terrorism" is really showing you own lack of history. If Westerners

hadn't been over in the Middle East in the form of multiple "crusades" arrogantly slaughtering hundreds of thousands

of Muslims and stealing their homelands, all in the name of Christianity - the Arabs and the Persians would still be

too busy fighting it out between themselves to even take notice of Americans and Europeans. Likewise - the Israelies

wouldn't be in constant fear of their lives from attacks by Arabs if the ....... arrogant British hadn't tried to solve

"the Jewish Problem" by dumping millions of them in the middle of what had been Arab homelands for more than a thousand years.

And if American politicians weren't pumping zillions of dollars a year into Israeli pockets and selling them cheap

weapons with which to kill Arabs who just want to live in their own homeland - there wouldn't be all this anti-American

sentiment amongst Arabs. Likewise if Bush hadn't decided to play world-policeman in order to protect Kuwati oil during the Gulf War - the Iraqis and the Iranians would have been too busy killing each other worry about us. Likewise if the CIA hadn't been openly propping up the government of the scumbag Shah of Iran (also for the sake of oil deals) the Iranians would be too busy killing and jailing other Iranians to worry about folks in the USA.



When early Americans wanted to be free of the yolk of British colonialism - they killed lots of British in order to get them

out of America.



What the Arabs are doing isn't really that different. They can't win in a fair fight - but think about it for a second.

If your state was all of a sudden flooded with Israelis with more weapon power than you could shake a stick at

and you could never kick them out - wouldn't you at least want to put some hurt on them? Think about it.

Interesting how the actions of the other side is called 'Terrorism' and the actions of our side is called 'Patriotism'.



Another interesting thing is that the other side uses small change and DIY technology whilst our side uses peak of western state of the art technology and still can't win.



One side kills civilians and it is called barbaric the other side kills civilians and it is called collateral damage.



Right or wrong depends on which side you are on.



Now back to motorcycles.......

Mental Anarchist said:

Now back to motorcycles.......

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Ok then - the current Australian government would like to tax you more to ride your motorcycle.

Mental Anarchist said:

Interesting how the actions of the other side is called 'Terrorism' and the actions of our side is called 'Patriotism'.



Another interesting thing is that the other side uses small change and DIY technology whilst our side uses peak of western state of the art technology and still can't win.



One side kills civilians and it is called barbaric the other side kills civilians and it is called collateral damage.



Right or wrong depends on which side you are on.



Now back to motorcycles.......

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Might is right. In more ways than one buddy. BTW, where are you from?



Have you guys seen the documentary 'Long Way Round'? If you haven't I recommend it, two dudes ride around the world. But for me the most impactful part, the part I remembered the most, was when they are in Mongolia. Ewan McGregor, one of the riders, at one point says even though everything is so foreign, "we are all basically the same, we all need and want the same things." Then goes on to say, "but we are making a mess of things". I've concluded that its the most powerful peeps in this world, a very small number, that are making a mess of things. In the US, as I suspect is true all around the world, we are under attack by this powerful group that dominates the media message. Its made a bunch of sheep willing to go along with their aims. Just yesterday, we had all our Republican Senate members declare that they would block all legislative proposals until a tax cut for the top 1% in my nation is extended. Stop and think about this for one moment. What could be so dire, so important, of such emergency, that all members one one party to unite in favor of the most insainly wealthy? They have declared that the government cannot proceed until this one thing is approved. How much more clear can their position be? Yet its middle class peeps that vote these people into office. How have they convinced these middle class peeps who have got ...... over to vote for the people ....... them over??? Breathtaking!





So, while we have half the peeps in democratic nations willing to do the bidding of these powerful peeps who profit from the destruction of the weak, then it will continue. They will be terrorists and we will be freedom fighters. This is not new friend. Look up the deeds of Christ Columbus, Fernando Cortez, and Francisco Pizzaro, they are euphemistically called “explorers” or military genius with terms like “conquerors”. We even have holidays to honor them. This .... ain't going away buddy, its gonna get worse. We are .......



Back to motorcycles....