Casey Stoner is Dr Who

Mental Anarchist said:

Hey Lex,



I haven't read these documents but can you tell me who wrote them? Were they American? If so was it the same Americans who told us there were WMD's in Iraq?

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It was written by Osama Bin Laden himself. Here is the preamble and the justification for the entire Declaration of War Against The Americans Occupying The Land of the Two Holy Places

People are fully concerned about their every day livings; every body talks about the deterioration of the economy, inflation, ever increasing debts and jails full of prisoners. Government employees with limited

income talk about debts of ten thousands and hundred thousands of Saudi Riyals . They complain that the value of the Riyal is greatly and continuously deteriorating among most of the main currencies. Great merchants and contractors speak about hundreds and thousands of million Riyals owed to them by the government. More than three hundred forty billions of Riyal owed by the government to the people in addition to the daily accumulated interest, let alone the foreign debt. People wonder whether we are the largest oil exporting country! They even believe that this situation is a curse put on them by Allah for not objecting to the oppressive and illegitimate behaviour and measures of the ruling regime.



Ignoring the divine Shari'ah law; depriving people of their legitimate rights; allowing the American to occupy the land of the two Holy Places; imprisonment, unjustly, of the sincere scholars....All agreed that the country is heading toward a great catastrophe, the depth of which is not known except by Allah....Numerous princes share with the people their feelings, privately expressing their concerns and objecting to the corruption, repression and the intimidation taking place in the country. But the competition between influential princes for personal gains and interest had destroyed the country. Through its course of actions the regime has torn off its legitimacy: (1) Suspension of the Islamic Shari'ah law and exchanging it with man made civil law... (2) The inability of the regime to protect the country, and allowing the enemy of the Ummah the American crusader forces to occupy the land for the longest of years...

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The Fatwa against the United States was b/c he was furious at the Saudi Royal family for letting infidels maintain a military force (UN) in order to keep Saddam Hussein at bay. Bin Laden believed that the holy warriors of the Mujahideen were supposed to protect the Holy Land. Many fundamental Islamic extremists spoke out against Saudi Arabia.

...In 1411 A.H. (May 1991), at the time of the gulf war, a letter, the famous letter of Shawwaal, with over four hundred signatures was send to the king demanding the lift of oppression and the implementation of corrective actions. The king humiliated those people and choose to ignore the content of their letter; and the very bad situation of the country became even worse....

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He goes on to list the 9 sins of the Saudi Royal family. All of his ranting got him banished to Sudan where he started terrorist activities against his fellow Arabs.



That's the whole story. A man is possessed by jealousy and rage b/c the Arab world let infidels protect Saudi Arabia from Saddam Hussein rather than using the holy army of the Mujahideen (obviously no match for the Iraqi Army). Like a bad father, bin Laden beats his own family first, but after they banish him from Saudi Arabia and Sudan, he concludes that they are possessed by the demon infidels of Israel and the US. Every bulletpoint in the fatwa is a rant against the Saudi royal family for abandoning the ways of Islam, but he concludes that the infidels are responsible for the royal family's actions (not fear of Saddam Hussein). What a convenient conclusion considering his fatwa on the Arab world got him banished to the remote mountain regions of Afghanistan.



It's easy to sympathize with a guy who wants a simple life and wants to avoid the corruption that comes with Western civilization, but everything he did was a complete failure. He attacked his fellow Arabs in order to force them to obey Sharia Law. The Arab world banished him to Afghanistan instead. He attacked the United States to drive the infidels from the Arabian Peninsula. The infidels have hundreds of thousands of troops in the Middle East now. He says that death is imminent and that living like a coward is the only true death (or whatever the exact phrase). He's been hiding for the last 20 years of his life since he was banished from the Holy Land.



Americans translated the fatwa.



Sorry to go so far off topic, but this is kind of important.

You people need more nihilism in your life.

Hang around for more than 5 minutes at a time, johnnyvvc, and you'll find out that things always go OFF topic during the OFF season.



It's the offtopic season so quit crying and just go with it. This happens every year.

Bunyip said:

I find almost every aspect of al-qaeda and the taliban abhorrant. However we need to understand how and why al-qaeda came into being and learn from our mistakes..........and not take the sort of actions that encourage people to leave sensible lives and dedicate their whole existence to useless destruction. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld aggravated an already unsatisfactory approach to middle-east policy, and encouraged a rapid escalation in the recruitment success by these terrorist organisations. Obama isdoing his best to reduce the perception of anti-muslim beliefs by the US administration. Gung-ho republican factions are doing their best to sabotage any effective progress made by Obama. Sarah Palin represents the worst aspects of the american right wing, by replacing any understanding of world affairs , with ignorance-based belligerency.

I really fea rfor the future of the world if she becomes president. She will make George Bush appear to be a wise statesman by comparison.





ps. Stoner=Dr Who

Lorenzo= The Master

Rossi= Dr Evil

Pedrosa= Mini- me

Hayden= Dr Strangelove (Jumkie=strangelove-strangelove)

Spies = Hal

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Not really a retraction, but i will take it. Instead of creating Islamic terrorism, they aggravated it. Let me fill you in on something, for years we treated those .......s with kids gloves, after 9-11 the country demanded that the gloves be taken off. Bush and Cheney were taking orders from the American people. The American people as a whole are good, fun loving people, but there are certain things we will just not tolerate. After decades of tugging on our tail and getting nipped for their actions, they figured the response would be the same as it was under Carter, and to some extent Clinton, if they just went ahead and gave that tail a yank instead of a tug. That did not go to well, instead of getting nipped, they are still getting mauled 9 years later. We more or less inherited this ........ in the middle east from Great Britain. We had not set an angry foot in the region till we sent troops in the late 40's to protect British oil interest from being nationalized. Since then, it has been one bad alliance after another. We created Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden , we had governments overthrown and put in puppet regimes for one reason, to combat our old nemesis Russia's influence in the region. I think people need to ask themselves one simple question before they jump to the conclusion of our presence in the middle east. What would the landscape of the region be now, if we had not stopped Russia from becoming the dominant force in the middle east.

mylexicon said:

It was written by Osama Bin Laden himself. Here is the preamble and the justification for the entire Declaration of War Against The Americans Occupying The Land of the Two Holy Places







The Fatwa against the United States was b/c he was furious at the Saudi Royal family for letting infidels maintain a military force (UN) in order to keep Saddam Hussein at bay. Bin Laden believed that the holy warriors of the Mujahideen were supposed to protect the Holy Land. Many fundamental Islamic extremists spoke out against Saudi Arabia.







He goes on to list the 9 sins of the Saudi Royal family. All of his ranting got him banished to Sudan where he started terrorist activities against his fellow Arabs.



That's the whole story. A man is possessed by jealousy and rage b/c the Arab world let infidels protect Saudi Arabia from Saddam Hussein rather than using the holy army of the Mujahideen (obviously no match for the Iraqi Army). Like a bad father, bin Laden beats his own family first, but after they banish him from Saudi Arabia and Sudan, he concludes that they are possessed by the demon infidels of Israel and the US. Every bulletpoint in the fatwa is a rant against the Saudi royal family for abandoning the ways of Islam, but he concludes that the infidels are responsible for the royal family's actions (not fear of Saddam Hussein). What a convenient conclusion considering his fatwa on the Arab world got him banished to the remote mountain regions of Afghanistan.



It's easy to sympathize with a guy who wants a simple life and wants to avoid the corruption that comes with Western civilization, but everything he did was a complete failure. He attacked his fellow Arabs in order to force them to obey Sharia Law. The Arab world banished him to Afghanistan instead. He attacked the United States to drive the infidels from the Arabian Peninsula. The infidels have hundreds of thousands of troops in the Middle East now. He says that death is imminent and that living like a coward is the only true death (or whatever the exact phrase). He's been hiding for the last 20 years of his life since he was banished from the Holy Land.



Americans translated the fatwa.



Sorry to go so far off topic, but this is kind of important.

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Thanks Lex. Interesting. It has long been acknowledged that a primary reason for Bin Laden's actions has been the US Military bases on Arab soil. As someone who does not believe that the spread of US military power around the globe is necessary nor good I can kinda agree with him. As we can see from the last 10 years the world is less stable because of it rather than the opposite.



Would Americans be happy for China to have a military base on American soil or even Canada's soil or Mexican Soil?



Although I do not believe in Bin Laden's methods I do believe in civil disobedience when Governments govern for business and their own interests rather than for the people. Bin Laden from my interpretation of what you have posted and from what I have garnered from following the topic for the last 10+ years is carrying out civil disobedience to an extreme and doing what has been done for 1000's of years - using religion to support his stance.



You say Bin Laden is hiding. Well our leaders hide to. They just hide behind huge military forces and in under ground bunkers or fortified jumbo jets flanked by super hornets. We never saw Bush front up with a weapon on a battle field.

povol said:

Not really a retraction, but i will take it. Instead of creating Islamic terrorism, they aggravated it. Let me fill you in on something, for years we treated those .......s with kids gloves, after 9-11 the country demanded that the gloves be taken off. Bush and Cheney were taking orders from the American people. The American people as a whole are good, fun loving people, but there are certain things we will just not tolerate. After decades of tugging on our tail and getting nipped for their actions, they figured the response would be the same as it was under Carter, and to some extent Clinton, if they just went ahead and gave that tail a yank instead of a tug. That did not go to well, instead of getting nipped, they are still getting mauled 9 years later. We more or less inherited this ........ in the middle east from Great Britain. We had not set an angry foot in the region till we sent troops in the late 40's to protect British oil interest from being nationalized. Since then, it has been one bad alliance after another. We created Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden , we had governments overthrown and put in puppet regimes for one reason, to combat our old nemesis Russia's influence in the region. I think people need to ask themselves one simple question before they jump to the conclusion of our presence in the middle east. What would the landscape of the region be now, if we had not stopped Russia from becoming the dominant force in the middle east.

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I don't think the world would have had a problem if you had of just gone to Afganistan. It was the illegal and unnecessary war you instigated with Iraq that is the problem and a problem that I think will cost America everything in the not to distant future. Bankruptcy was one of Bin Laden's plans for the US and it seems that it is not far away. I remember a quote from Bin Laden that went something like "for every dollar I spend on Terrorism the US spends $1 million trying to stop me".

povol said:

What would the landscape of the region be now, if we had not stopped Russia from becoming the dominant force in the middle east.

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It would probably be a holiday destination like a lot of Russia these days

povol said:

Not really a retraction, but i will take it. Instead of creating Islamic terrorism, they aggravated it. Let me fill you in on something, for years we treated those .......s with kids gloves, after 9-11 the country demanded that the gloves be taken off. Bush and Cheney were taking orders from the American people. The American people as a whole are good, fun loving people, but there are certain things we will just not tolerate. After decades of tugging on our tail and getting nipped for their actions, they figured the response would be the same as it was under Carter, and to some extent Clinton, if they just went ahead and gave that tail a yank instead of a tug. That did not go to well, instead of getting nipped, they are still getting mauled 9 years later. We more or less inherited this ........ in the middle east from Great Britain. We had not set an angry foot in the region till we sent troops in the late 40's to protect British oil interest from being nationalized. Since then, it has been one bad alliance after another. We created Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden , we had governments overthrown and put in puppet regimes for one reason, to combat our old nemesis Russia's influence in the region. I think people need to ask themselves one simple question before they jump to the conclusion of our presence in the middle east. What would the landscape of the region be now, if we had not stopped Russia from becoming the dominant force in the middle east.

Click to expand...

The war in Iraq was an unmitigated PR disaster for the USA. No WMDs, a nagging suspicion that it was all for securing oil for the USA, and then the images of prisoner abuse in abu-Ghraib prison was the final nail in the coffin. If there was a recipe for doing the best job of inflaming anti-US sentiment in the middle east, then they absolutely nailed it. Afghanistan was justified, Iraq was not.



I know this statement may be seen as contoversial, but I believe that (abhorrent as it was) leaving Saddam Hussein in power, was a far less toxic situation than what has happened since.I believe over a million Iraqi civilians have died in the war and in terrorist activity since then.

I,m not sure Iraq is ready for democracy, and all the efforts at imposing democracy on Iraq may be doomed to failure in the near future. Iraq has a tribal history , where strength and power is respected, and weakness is a failure. With all the disparate tribal leaders jockying for power, perhaps we need another Saddam to keep them all in check. The least bad brutal dictator is probably the best solution. And another big plus for Sadaam was that he presided over a secular state, a far better situation than the current movement in the middle east towards religious fundamentalism that leads to the repression of half the population. I hope democracy will be the normal situation for all countries, but perhaps we need to allow the people to want it, rather than have it thrust upon them. I suspect worldwide internet access could be the solution to our problems, because as people gradually see the way other more fortunate people live, they will aspire to this lifestyle and be willing to give up age-old attitudes that prevent this from happening. Only hopelessness and nothing to live for in their current lives ,will inspire people to throw their lives away in jihads and terrorist behaviour. Use the carrot, not the stick!

Mental Anarchist said:

You say Bin Laden is hiding. Well our leaders hide to. They just hide behind huge military forces and in under ground bunkers or fortified jumbo jets flanked by super hornets. We never saw Bush front up with a weapon on a battle field.

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Our leaders don't say that death is imminent; therefore, it is better to kill infidels than to die peacefully like a coward.



I think you're giving the guy way too much credit. Imagine I own a small parts manufacturing company for one of the big 3 Detroit automakers. The Chinese buy a big chunk of GM, and they move some of the parts manufacturing to China. I'm a wealthy man, but I'm out of business and I'm furious with my government for letting the Chinese into Detroit b/c Detroit is no place for the Chinese. I travel around the innercity of Detroit rounding up all of the unemployed factory workers and I teach them how to strap bombs to themselves and blow up Chinese buildings. I start a cell in Europe to teach European unemployed factory workers how to do the same thing. I get bored with it, so I send a handful of my people to flight school in China where they will learn how to fly Chinese aircraft into the Shanghai tower and a few government buildings.



The justification for all of this is the depreciation of the American dollar, American debt, predatory dumping (illegal under WTO), mercantile business practices (resource hoarding that drives up the price of global commodities), and the occupation of Detroit. Our actions are justifiable b/c the Chinese aren't perfect at managing an economy and they don't understand the drawbacks of mercantilism? The US wants global peace, but we don't know how to achieve it so we have to accept the fact that people are going to kill civilians on American soil?



When it comes to global peace, the sad truth is that there will never be peace. The obvious lack of peace leads to fatalism which causes people to embrace whatever strategy they want even though none of them achieve anything in the long term. Europeans are pacifist appeasers which doesn't work. Australians are mainly isolationist which also doesn't work. America tries to be benevolent peace keeping police, it doesn't work. The Chinese don't even acknowledge human rights for foreign threats which obviously doesn't work either in the long run. Probably the longest period of peace in the Western world was after the Romans conquered it. Do I want to join the American Legion and go around the world conquering everyone and committing genocide until only Americans are left? No thanks.



Nothing works so the best thing you can do is lay out a very clear policy for how you are going to take care of enemy combatants and then stick to it so people know what to expect. I think our policy is decent in the grand scheme of war and combat.



I understand that people are pissed about Iraq b/c we defied the UN, but what do they expect us to do? We've got a security dossier as big as a warehouse that describes Saddam's madness. We've got a terrorist organization that says they will kill us forever until we leave the Holy Land, but we can't leave the Holy Land and the Saudi royal family until Iraq has decent leadership not Baathists who lust after Western Middle East oil fields. We tried appeasement with boatloads of UN money. Didn't work. We tried isolationism after the embassy bombings. Didn't work. Only thing that's ever worked for us is the Marshall Plan. Kill the fascists (Islamo-fascists in this instance). Install democracy. Rebuild the country. Make friends. Find a common foe (doesn't have to be a person). Start commerce. Hope for the best. It's no surprise that we're revisiting the Marshall plan.



If the US is responsible for the lack of world peace just put help the terrorists put us out of our misery now.

McKneZ said:

...just one more thing.

What is in your view tha biggest difference between them? ...did you ever raced? ...do you think if your girlfriend told you before the race, that she is pregnant with the favorite in this race...you would do better or worse? Yeah you must be an alien

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Asked where he himself needs to progress, Dovizioso responded: "In my head. MotoGP is packed with talent, so in the end it's the approach to the race – including concentration – that makes the difference.”



I dont think motorcycles are that different. Little bit of modification and he will be there fighting for the win again. And you can tell me whatever you want ...and again im a motogp fan, just want some enterteining races!