Casey Stoner is Dr Who

povol · Dec 2, 2010

Keshav said:
Hate to say it Pov - but this is a very short-sighted view on Islamic terrorism. I'm not in favor of it of course

but - to refer to the actions of Muslims in centuries past as "terrorism" is really showing you own lack of history. If Westerners

hadn't been over in the Middle East in the form of multiple "crusades" arrogantly slaughtering hundreds of thousands

of Muslims and stealing their homelands, all in the name of Christianity - the Arabs and the Persians would still be

too busy fighting it out between themselves to even take notice of Americans and Europeans. Likewise - the Israelies

wouldn't be in constant fear of their lives from attacks by Arabs if the ....... arrogant British hadn't tried to solve

"the Jewish Problem" by dumping millions of them in the middle of what had been Arab homelands for more than a thousand years.

And if American politicians weren't pumping zillions of dollars a year into Israeli pockets and selling them cheap

weapons with which to kill Arabs who just want to live in their own homeland - there wouldn't be all this anti-American

sentiment amongst Arabs. Likewise if Bush hadn't decided to play world-policeman in order to protect Kuwati oil during the Gulf War - the Iraqis and the Iranians would have been too busy killing each other worry about us. Likewise if the CIA hadn't been openly propping up the government of the scumbag Shah of Iran (also for the sake of oil deals) the Iranians would be too busy killing and jailing other Iranians to worry about folks in the USA.

When early Americans wanted to be free of the yolk of British colonialism - they killed lots of British in order to get them

out of America.

What the Arabs are doing isn't really that different. They can't win in a fair fight - but think about it for a second.

If your state was all of a sudden flooded with Israelis with more weapon power than you could shake a stick at

and you could never kick them out - wouldn't you at least want to put some hurt on them? Think about it.

Whatever you want to call them, freedom fighters, holy warriors or terrorists, i am well aware of the time lines and the history. With that being said, George Bush did not create Islamic terrorism, even if you want to talk about modern day terrorism from the 1950's till now. In 1972, i got to watch Israeli Olympians slaughtered on TV. Literally thousands of Islamic terror acts have occurred since the 50's from beheadings, car bombs, suicide bombers, hijacked planes, and George Bush had nothing to do with them. It was a silly statement,and silly irritates the .... out of me

Bunyip · Dec 2, 2010

povol said:
Yep, Islamic terrorism was born in November of 2000. Unbelievable that someone can be so misinformed.What are you, 12. Islamic terrorism has been around for some 1300 years, but who is counting. If thats to far back, look up the word Israel, you can probably find some info on Islamic terrorism that goes back to their 60+ years of existence. If that is ancient history to a 12 year old, you can find info regarding Islamic terrorism in the 60's 70's 80's, and 90's as well. American interest have been the target of radical Islam since way before 9-11. Im sure recess is over by now, you need to get back inside, and for gods sake, quit sleeping in history class.

Keshav has answered this very well . Generally US foreign policy often has a narrow objective that fails to adress the big picture, and often results in poor long term outcomes, despite the best of intentions. As there seems to be no forseeable reconciliation between jews and palestinians, I have come to question the wisdom of creating Israel in the first place (well Israel where it now is).

However, your descent to childish personal insult was unnecessary, and does very little to further the credibility or maturity of yourself..I know some very bright 12 year olds!

In all probability I am not only older than yourself, but also much wiser

Jumkie · Dec 2, 2010

Good points on both sides.

Can we agree that religion is a big problem?

Bunyip · Dec 2, 2010

Jumkie said:
Good points on both sides.

Can we agree that religion is a big problem?

Have you told Nicky that?

(I agree completely........but isn,t that a dangerous thought over in those parts?)

Keshav · Dec 2, 2010

povol said:
Whatever you want to call them, freedom fighters, holy warriors or terrorists, i am well aware of the time lines and the history. With that being said, George Bush did not create Islamic terrorism, even if you want to talk about modern day terrorism from the 1950's till now. In 1972, i got to watch Israeli Olympians slaughtered on TV. Literally thousands of Islamic terror acts have occurred since the 50's from beheadings, car bombs, suicide bombers, hijacked planes, and George Bush had nothing to do with them. It was a silly statement,and silly irritates the .... out of me

No my friend, George Bush didn't create terrorism. He was just one more short-sighted, arrogant Westerner in a long line of

Westerners - who have for centuries believed that the wants and needs of the people of the Arab world should just naturally

be second to those of people from Europe and America. Europeans and Americans have been ....... over the Arabs since

the days of the days of the Crusade - and it's only now in the last 50 years that the ways and means for Arabs to extract payback

have become cheap and easy. Payback's been a long time coming. I hear Tea Party morons saying "I want my country back" and

I laugh. The Muslims want their countries back and they want their dignity back and unlike Tea Party imbeciles - the Muslims are

willing to die for it.

I'm not in love with Islam - but having objective historical insight makes it hard for me to say they don't have good reasons to hate

the US Government.

Remember what I said about having your home state overrun by a foreign nation and having your resources stolen for export to

other countries, your civil rights quashed and your religion reviled. Tell me under those circumstances that you wouldn't be out there

with a AK47 shooting invaders. And you would be called "a terrorist".

mylexicon · Dec 2, 2010

Keshav said:
No my friend, George Bush didn't create terrorism. He was just one more short-sighted, arrogant Westerner in a long line of

Westerners - who have for centuries believed that the wants and needs of the people of the Arab world should just naturally

be second to those of people from Europe and America. Europeans and Americans have been ....... over the Arabs since

the days of the days of the Crusade - and it's only now in the last 50 years that the ways and means for Arabs to extract payback

have become cheap and easy. Payback's been a long time coming. I hear Tea Party morons saying "I want my country back" and

I laugh. The Muslims want their countries back and they want their dignity back and unlike Tea Party imbeciles - the Muslims are

willing to die for it.

I'm not in love with Islam - but having objective historical insight makes it hard for me to say they don't have good reasons to hate

the US Government.

Remember what I said about having your home state overrun by a foreign nation and having your resources stolen for export to

other countries, your civil rights quashed and your religion reviled. Tell me under those circumstances that you wouldn't be out there

with a AK47 shooting invaders. And you would be called "a terrorist".

The entire story of Al-Qaeda is on the internet in unclassified documents. Bin Laden's Fatwa on the US is on the internet. When you've read it, let us know.

Arabs hate Al Qaeda b/c Al Qaeda committed acts of terror against other Arabs for 10 years b/c they supported US military involvement during the Gulf War. After the entire Arab world turned on him, Bin Laden was forced to return to Afghanistan where he decided that he would attack Americans instead b/c it was easier to get funding and Arabs didn't like Americans.

Not only did we protect the Holy Land from Saddam Hussein, we also protected Al Qaeda cells in Bosnia during the Bosnian War.

It wasn't until after he decided that murdering Arabs wasn't really supported in the Koran (and people hated him) that he issued a declaration of war against the infidels. The entire declaration of war against the US is a long-winded rant against the Saudi royal family, but after 6-8 years of killing Arabs with little effect, he concludes that the infidels are the reason he cannot change the Saudi royal family.

All of the information is on the internet so there is no reason to make things up. The only thing you won't read in declassified documents are all of the allegations that the KGB were meddling in Afghan affairs after we left and that they turned the Taliban against us which ultimately caused them to harbor Bin Laden during his fatwa against us.

povol · Dec 2, 2010

Bunyip said:
Keshav has answered this very well . Generally US foreign policy often has a narrow objective that fails to adress the big picture, and often results in poor long term outcomes, despite the best of intentions. As there seems to be no forseeable reconciliation between jews and palestinians, I have come to question the wisdom of creating Israel in the first place (well Israel where it now is).

However, your descent to childish personal insult was unnecessary, and does very little to further the credibility or maturity of yourself..I know some very bright 12 year olds!

In all probability I am not only older than yourself, but also much wiser

I tell you what, you retract your childish uninformed comment, and i will retract my childish personal insult.

Jumkie · Dec 2, 2010

Wher is Scurvy to say "i like ham"?

Even though ham is unclean and only infidels eat that .....

Go Hayden!

Bunyip · Dec 2, 2010

povol said:
I tell you what, you retract your childish uninformed comment, and i will retract my childish personal insult.

Which comment be that? I suppose Keshav is equally childish?

Long live the children, for thay are the future...........................

Perhaps it is perplexing for you, that we know a bit more than you think. But don,t assume that we all as equally knowledgable on international affairs as Sarah Palin. I spend a fair bit of time keeping up with politics and world events, something that the average american is not renowned for. Keshav has a particularly lucid insight (as do several others) and disproves this generalisation.

Anywayyyyyyyyyyyyy, back to bikes; Stoner IS Dr Who, and his last reincarnation is at Honda, where he can reach fulfillment as the chosen one, or where he can be usurped by the master (Lorenzo) and revealed as a one trick pony (2007). Unfortunately Rossi may be effectively on the sidelines in 2011, only to be observer and not a participant in the next battle.

Mental Anarchist · Dec 2, 2010

mylexicon said:
The entire story of Al-Qaeda is on the internet in unclassified documents. Bin Laden's Fatwa on the US is on the internet. When you've read it, let us know.

Arabs hate Al Qaeda b/c Al Qaeda committed acts of terror against other Arabs for 10 years b/c they supported US military involvement during the Gulf War. After the entire Arab world turned on him, Bin Laden was forced to return to Afghanistan where he decided that he would attack Americans instead b/c it was easier to get funding and Arabs didn't like Americans.

Not only did we protect the Holy Land from Saddam Hussein, we also protected Al Qaeda cells in Bosnia during the Bosnian War.

It wasn't until after he decided that murdering Arabs wasn't really supported in the Koran (and people hated him) that he issued a declaration of war against the infidels. The entire declaration of war against the US is a long-winded rant against the Saudi royal family, but after 6-8 years of killing Arabs with little effect, he concludes that the infidels are the reason he cannot change the Saudi royal family.

All of the information is on the internet so there is no reason to make things up. The only thing you won't read in declassified documents are all of the allegations that the KGB were meddling in Afghan affairs after we left and that they turned the Taliban against us which ultimately caused them to harbor Bin Laden during his fatwa against us.

Hey Lex,

I haven't read these documents but can you tell me who wrote them? Were they American? If so was it the same Americans who told us there were WMD's in Iraq?

J4rn0 · Dec 2, 2010

Interesting how threads evolve.

Stoner is an alien -- Stoner is anti-establishment -- Stoner is... a terrorist?

Stoner is Dr. No!

Jumkie · Dec 3, 2010

Mental Anarchist said:
I haven't read these documents but can you tell me who wrote them? Were they American? If so was it the same Americans who told us there were WMD's in Iraq?

Anarchist, buddy, The nationality of the authors is of no relevance. The US is very diverse in all aspects. Ur 3rd question is more relevant. Inditing "Americans" is a WMD, a Weapon of Mass Distraction. Very similar actually to the WMDs u referenced, as thats all they turned out to be.

To the rest of us on this thread (Geo, Anarch, Bunny, Kesh, Pov, Lex, amigos, etc.), Lets all get one thing straight, the Taliban/Al Qaeda r NOT doing the bidding to right the wrongs of Western meddling. They r as crazy and sick as has been the worst descriptions of them. No need to look any further than the way they treat their own young girls. So lets back up a bit before we start sucking Talibalqaeda dicks. If u guys r interested in examning this check out a documentary called "My Trip to Al Qaeda" by Lawerance Wright. The question posed, what is the agenda, policy, end game propsed by this organization. The conclusion, and i agree, was none, they r completely devoid of such thought. Their obsession, destruction. Sure there are perhaps some organizations that r trying to fight Western meddling, but im convinced the Talibalqaeda under Bin Laden is NOT one of them.

Mental Anarchist · Dec 3, 2010

Jum,

The Nationality is important as is the side of society that has created the documents ... western or middle eastern. A person growing up in a western society can not escape the perception that has been ingrown since birth. I am no different here. The facts are based on which side you look at the scenario from.

You mention how they treat their young women. I am not sure how they really treat their young women as I have only ever seen a western perception of how they treat their young women. If I was middle eastern and looked at how the western world treats their young women I would probably find it complete distasteful and abhorrent. I am of course referring to the sexualisation of young women in our society eg. 13 year old models being passed of as sexually mature women. Just one example but I am sure I could run of plenty more if pressed.

But what I am saying is that perception is 90% of the story. Just look at here. We have guys like Talpa who's perception is that he speaks truth and the rest of us have some warped view of MotoGP. Nothing you or I could say to him could make him see that his perception is one that is at such odds to the 90% who live in the middle of the other end of the extreme.

To me the Taliban are of a similar extreme as those on the right in America and in my country. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, O'Reilly and those types of extremists are just the world view version of a Talpa and in my opinion are just as wrong as the Taliban.

bluegreen · Dec 3, 2010

Wow, this thread got awesome. I'm Canadian though, staying away....

Bunyip · Dec 3, 2010

Jumkie said:
Anarchist, buddy, The nationality of the authors is of no relevance. The US is very diverse in all aspects. Ur 3rd question is more relevant. Inditing "Americans" is a WMD, a Weapon of Mass Distraction. Very similar actually to the WMDs u referenced, as thats all they turned out to be.

To the rest of us on this thread (Geo, Anarch, Bunny, Kesh, Pov, Lex, amigos, etc.), Lets all get one thing straight, the Taliban/Al Qaeda r NOT doing the bidding to right the wrongs of Western meddling. They r as crazy and sick as has been the worst descriptions of them. No need to look any further than the way they treat their own young girls. So lets back up a bit before we start sucking Talibalqaeda dicks. If u guys r interested in examning this check out a documentary called "My Trip to Al Qaeda" by Lawerance Wright. The question posed, what is the agenda, policy, end game propsed by this organization. The conclusion, and i agree, was none, they r completely devoid of such thought. Their obsession, destruction. Sure there are perhaps some organizations that r trying to fight Western meddling, but im convinced the Talibalqaeda under Bin Laden is NOT one of them.

I find almost every aspect of al-qaeda and the taliban abhorrant. However we need to understand how and why al-qaeda came into being and learn from our mistakes..........and not take the sort of actions that encourage people to leave sensible lives and dedicate their whole existence to useless destruction. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld aggravated an already unsatisfactory approach to middle-east policy, and encouraged a rapid escalation in the recruitment success by these terrorist organisations. Obama isdoing his best to reduce the perception of anti-muslim beliefs by the US administration. Gung-ho republican factions are doing their best to sabotage any effective progress made by Obama. Sarah Palin represents the worst aspects of the american right wing, by replacing any understanding of world affairs , with ignorance-based belligerency.

I really fea rfor the future of the world if she becomes president. She will make George Bush appear to be a wise statesman by comparison.

ps. Stoner=Dr Who

Lorenzo= The Master

Rossi= Dr Evil

Pedrosa= Mini- me

Hayden= Dr Strangelove (Jumkie=strangelove-strangelove)

Spies = Hal

michaelm · Dec 3, 2010

Jumkie said:
Anarchist, buddy, The nationality of the authors is of no relevance. The US is very diverse in all aspects. Ur 3rd question is more relevant. Inditing "Americans" is a WMD, a Weapon of Mass Distraction. Very similar actually to the WMDs u referenced, as thats all they turned out to be.

To the rest of us on this thread (Geo, Anarch, Bunny, Kesh, Pov, Lex, amigos, etc.), Lets all get one thing straight, the Taliban/Al Qaeda r NOT doing the bidding to right the wrongs of Western meddling. They r as crazy and sick as has been the worst descriptions of them. No need to look any further than the way they treat their own young girls. So lets back up a bit before we start sucking Talibalqaeda dicks. If u guys r interested in examning this check out a documentary called "My Trip to Al Qaeda" by Lawerance Wright. The question posed, what is the agenda, policy, end game propsed by this organization. The conclusion, and i agree, was none, they r completely devoid of such thought. Their obsession, destruction. Sure there are perhaps some organizations that r trying to fight Western meddling, but im convinced the Talibalqaeda under Bin Laden is NOT one of them.

Al qaeda would probably be fighting it out with other small groups over religious/ideological differences a la "life of brian" if not for radicalisation of the broader islamic populace by disquiet over problems such as palestine and the palestinian refugees etc, whatever their aetiology. I personally like others blame the western colonial powers of the 19th and early 20th centuries for the genesis of this and many other geopolitical problems, particularly their penchant for fairly arbitrarily drawing lines on maps of lands remote from europe, rather than the USA which is basically the inheritor of this legacy. Whether the USA could have acted more wisely is another question, one I am not equipped to answer, certainly having no answers myself. I can also understand Israel whatever the rights and wrongs of the establishment of that state not wanting to unilaterally lay down arms when surrounded by countries with an avowed intention to sweep them into the sea.

Unfortunately philosophical understanding, however deep, of the concerns of these guys seems unikely to change their attitude to the west and westerners.

Keshav · Dec 3, 2010

mylexicon said:
The entire story of Al-Qaeda is on the internet in unclassified documents. Bin Laden's Fatwa on the US is on the internet. When you've read it, let us know.

Arabs hate Al Qaeda b/c Al Qaeda committed acts of terror against other Arabs for 10 years b/c they supported US military involvement during the Gulf War. After the entire Arab world turned on him, Bin Laden was forced to return to Afghanistan where he decided that he would attack Americans instead b/c it was easier to get funding and Arabs didn't like Americans.

Not only did we protect the Holy Land from Saddam Hussein, we also protected Al Qaeda cells in Bosnia during the Bosnian War.

It wasn't until after he decided that murdering Arabs wasn't really supported in the Koran (and people hated him) that he issued a declaration of war against the infidels. The entire declaration of war against the US is a long-winded rant against the Saudi royal family, but after 6-8 years of killing Arabs with little effect, he concludes that the infidels are the reason he cannot change the Saudi royal family.

All of the information is on the internet so there is no reason to make things up. The only thing you won't read in declassified documents are all of the allegations that the KGB were meddling in Afghan affairs after we left and that they turned the Taliban against us which ultimately caused them to harbor Bin Laden during his fatwa against us.

I don't disagree with anything you've said Lex, but in terms of hostility towards the West, Bin Laden and his crew are merely the new kids on the block. He's getting lots of a attention because he was innovative in his ability to horrifically express the impotent rage that Arabs and Persians have felt towards the West for more than a thousand years. The Saudi family don't care for Bin Laden because they're all so well insulated from outrages perpetrated on the poor and the middle class, and because they're in bed with big oil; they are big oil. They're not burning up with the desire for retribution because the West's utter enslavement to the oil they own - is their revenge.

Keshav · Dec 3, 2010

Jumkie said:
Anarchist, buddy, The nationality of the authors is of no relevance. The US is very diverse in all aspects. Ur 3rd question is more relevant. Inditing "Americans" is a WMD, a Weapon of Mass Distraction. Very similar actually to the WMDs u referenced, as thats all they turned out to be.

To the rest of us on this thread (Geo, Anarch, Bunny, Kesh, Pov, Lex, amigos, etc.), Lets all get one thing straight, the Taliban/Al Qaeda r NOT doing the bidding to right the wrongs of Western meddling. They r as crazy and sick as has been the worst descriptions of them. No need to look any further than the way they treat their own young girls. So lets back up a bit before we start sucking Talibalqaeda dicks. If u guys r interested in examning this check out a documentary called "My Trip to Al Qaeda" by Lawerance Wright. The question posed, what is the agenda, policy, end game propsed by this organization. The conclusion, and i agree, was none, they r completely devoid of such thought. Their obsession, destruction. Sure there are perhaps some organizations that r trying to fight Western meddling, but im convinced the Talibalqaeda under Bin Laden is NOT one of them.

I agree that Al Queda is a sick organization and that nothing they do is aligned with true tenets of Islam. The Taliban are nothing more than sociopathic hillbilly gangsters. But as has been said before - if the USA had not provoked the enmity of Muslims everywhere by their actions in Iran, Iraq etc - Bin Laden and his goons would be happily absorbed in internecine killing of other Muslims. As has been pointed out by knowledgeable journalists - we "created" Bin Laden. The USA made itself a giant target for madmen by it's constant meddling with the governments and economies in third world nations around the globe.

Keshav · Dec 3, 2010

Bunyip said:
ps. Stoner=Dr Who

Lorenzo= The Master

Rossi= Dr Evil

Pedrosa= Mini- me

Hayden= Dr Strangelove (Jumkie=strangelove-strangelove)

Spies = Hal

Mick D · Dec 3, 2010

Jumkie said:
Can we agree that religion is a big problem?

Religion, or shall we say "spirituality", isn't really a/the problem. Its the organized religion and the politicization of religion - the use of religion to control that is the big problem.

Compare: Sarah Palin: "I think I will see Jesus come back to earth in my lifetime." or Jerry Falwell: "...the church of Jesus Christ put George W. Bush back in the White House. We are on the winning side. We are always going to win because we have the truth. We have the inerrant word of God."

To: James Madison: "Religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." or Thomas Jefferson regarding the Book of revelations;" Merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable, of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."

Hmmmm... those founding father were SMART. Are we really getting this much dumber or are there just too many sheep out there unwilling to THINK FOR THEMSELVES?

BTW bluegreen, I'm a Canuck too... just jump in! Nationality doesn't preclude having an opinion here!!

Casey Stoner is Dr Who

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