I've always said Johnny Rea should have had that LCR bike, he was impressive on Caseys RCV back in 2012.
I don't know you know, is it the bike which is crash prone or the short tempered desperate riders throwing it at the scenery every week? For most of last year the Honda had no competition then towards the end when Yamaha made some moves and began to get closer we saw Marc make some daft errors but by that stage it didn't matter.
Now this year Yamaha have really built a great bike and overtaken Honda, I don't necessarily think the Honda is as bad as people are making out and the fact that Ducati have taken advantage of the rules and thrown a spanner in the works hasn't helped. I just think it's a case of riders getting frustrated that the bike isn't dominating like it was last year and that means the riders are trying to make it do things it can't do and end up picking gravel out of their arse.
Now this year Yamaha have really built a great bike and overtaken Honda, I don't necessarily think the Honda is as bad as people are making out and the fact that Ducati have taken advantage of the rules and thrown a spanner in the works hasn't helped. I just think it's a case of riders getting frustrated that the bike isn't dominating like it was last year and that means the riders are trying to make it do things it can't do and end up picking gravel out of their arse.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Well argued and reasonable posts such as yours will not be tolerated. We prefer Marquez have something to blame other than his brain.
It takes special talent to reason Marc's RCV caused him to crash out of Catalunya while Dani's RCV comfortably finished on the podium.
Last edited:
Once Cal crashed (again), then Muckez fell (again), then Pol came off (again) & finally Dove bins it, Pedrosa comfortably finished on the podium.
Last edited:
BOOM! Crash-low down again..... not the 12th lab but crashed out none the less If u ever go to a GP race you can see much easier then watching him on TV that his change of direction /movements and riding style is sketchy at best! I think it would do him justice to start some ballet classes with his wife to learn the importance of fluent beautiful movements....who knows it might help poor man.
Ps I love you Cal (no ....) but u suck!
Last edited:
I totally agree with your take on what would of happened, but couldn't resist. It's great to see you having this little bromance with Pedro after years of malice, and he's a Spaniard too. Wait, hang on, my pig just flew out the window. Bye.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Haha. Yeah, I need to get my head examined. But he is serving a useful purpose. And I was actually honestly rooting for him to beat Rossi, much to my buddy Heisman's chagrin. Its too bad Pedro had arm pump, as I'm certain his conservative style would have placed him on the podium more often if not a race win, then it would be harder for the pundits to say it's the decline of the RCV. But Jesus who am I kidding, Marquez clearly overshot and failed to brake adequate via, RIDER ERROR, but u would think the engine suddenly turned off the brake lever from what's going around the punditry. Its like the Stoner experience of blaming Casey for a ...... Ducati but in REVERSE! Which if u think about it, hopefully something similar will happen to eventually vindicate me...again.
Seriously think about it. Every pundits, expert, fellow rider's and general spectators were convinced the GP07 rode itself, and the subsequent years Stoner was a headache for not taking that "superior " Ducati to more titles. I can't recall one pundit coming out and saying it was the Ducati's fault. Not until 5 years later when Rossi rode it. Almost over night it was suddenly the bike's fault and zero to do with Rosie (shelving the fact Stoner had just placed the exact bike on the podium at Valencia). Now look at this similar scenario, try to find a pundit not bandwagoning on this absurd and ridiculous contention that the RCV is to blame for Marc's recent crashes.
Seriously think about it. Every pundits, expert, fellow rider's and general spectators were convinced the GP07 rode itself, and the subsequent years Stoner was a headache for not taking that "superior " Ducati to more titles. I can't recall one pundit coming out and saying it was the Ducati's fault. Not until 5 years later when Rossi rode it. Almost over night it was suddenly the bike's fault and zero to do with Rosie (shelving the fact Stoner had just placed the exact bike on the podium at Valencia). Now look at this similar scenario, try to find a pundit not bandwagoning on this absurd and ridiculous contention that the RCV is to blame for Marc's recent crashes.
Last edited:
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
It seems abundantly clear that in light of whatever factor has changed during off-season, that MM is frantically trying to compensate by over-riding.
Question is... what changed? Are you suggesting that MM has become less mature? Less talented? Less confident? Yes he's immature and yes he is taking more risks and paying the price. But why?
It's totally logical to surmise that the issue is changes to the bike and he's ill-equipped to ride around the problem and not mature enough to settle for 2nd. It's not a question of either/or. It's both the bike and the rider. That Pedrosa took a VERY distant 3rd after half the field crashed does not exonerate the changes made for this year's Honda - about which other riders have voiced their displeasure.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Perhaps it's simply in this current form Lorenzo is going to beat Marquez regardless. Lorenzo apparently said himself it's a confidence thing, and it doesn't take much to either lose or gain it. He gained some, Maquez lost some.
In fact after Jerez it was actually Kropo that said Lorenzo looks unbeatable, that watching him on TV does not do justice to how well he is riding seeing it live trackside, fluid movements on the bike like butter etc etc. At that point, Jerez, neither Marc nor Kropo were saying much about the terrible Honda. But now after four straight wins there must be something wrong with the Honda. suddenly it's like that old pig of a Ducati, too much power, don't handle, loses the front with no warning. Why can't it just be Lorenzo still in unbeatable form? Makes me wonder if Lorenzo was not on a roll, still having his problems like last year, then the Honda would be just fine, no cause for panic, no Marquez crashes.
Again back to Jerez, Marc had just broke his hand. Didn't know if he could make the race. Then he managed the race without the Honda running wide or doing anything that looked strange. After the race Marquez says the hand was giving him trouble so he didn't try to over-ride the bike, tried to stay relaxed, and there you go, even with a broken hand he sees off the Rossi challenge and takes second.
Lorenzo, when you look at it since day one has been right in the fire. Rossi's teammate, wall in the garage, psychological warfare no doubt. He eventually sees that challenge off and even forces Rossi to .... up by signing with Ducati. Then Stoner arrives at Honda. Should be unbeatable right? Nope, Lorenzo raises his game again and manages to beat him too. So why is Marquez any different?
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I don't recall there being anything wrong with Lorenzo's form last year. For the most part he rode beautifully - but the Honda clearly had a horsepower advantage and a superior seamless system. As yet nobody has offered any theory as to why Marquez's riding would deteriorate so drastically over the winter. Marquez has never backed down from a challenge. I think he's too stupid to know when to do so. I don't buy the theory that all of a sudden he's psyched out by Lorenzo. I'm not a fan of the kid in any way, and consider myself very objective on this.
Oh... and Lorenzo didn't force Rossi to do anything. That was Rossi's ego working against his own best interest.
Last edited:
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Sure some of the RCV is not up to standard, but I think it's rather possible that Honda assumed their bike has been pretty much the gold standard for the last 5 years, and didn't think they needed to update it, especially in light of how easily MM was winning races for most of the season.
It's the bike so much as in that it wasn't developed more to remain ahead of the M1, or at least to be the equal of the M1.
That said, it's a bike that is still good enough to take P2 in the constructor's championship.
The way the pundits continue to carry on like a bunch of virginal schoolgirls felt up for the first time underneath the bleachers at the school dance, you'd think the bike is busy battling it out with the backmarkers.
...., I almost completely forgot that he WON a race at COTA because it's easy to think he has been behind Nicky Hayden for the aforementioned reason. What's the real problem here? His Q times are relatively close to what they were last year with the exception of COTA, so I think it's more of a case that the M1 caught up to the RCV while the RCV stood still. So now what you've got is a guy who is not used to being behind other riders, and thinks the Earth has spun off of its axis. He's riding as such when it's obvious that backing off and sticking within the limits of the bike would be getting him podium finishes.
MM has likely convinced himself that there is something "wrong" with the bike instead of understanding that the bike is mostly the same, and that wouldn't have been a huge issue if the M1 didn't make the sort of jump that it did. But the pundits have fallen into the same trap, and find it easier to blame the bike design, than to accept that their Rossi replacement is to blame for the poor results. Pedrosa had no problem getting on the podium...it might not be a win, but the bike can still run up front...unless you're MM and your universe has been upended.
It's the bike so much as in that it wasn't developed more to remain ahead of the M1, or at least to be the equal of the M1.
That said, it's a bike that is still good enough to take P2 in the constructor's championship.
The way the pundits continue to carry on like a bunch of virginal schoolgirls felt up for the first time underneath the bleachers at the school dance, you'd think the bike is busy battling it out with the backmarkers.
...., I almost completely forgot that he WON a race at COTA because it's easy to think he has been behind Nicky Hayden for the aforementioned reason. What's the real problem here? His Q times are relatively close to what they were last year with the exception of COTA, so I think it's more of a case that the M1 caught up to the RCV while the RCV stood still. So now what you've got is a guy who is not used to being behind other riders, and thinks the Earth has spun off of its axis. He's riding as such when it's obvious that backing off and sticking within the limits of the bike would be getting him podium finishes.
MM has likely convinced himself that there is something "wrong" with the bike instead of understanding that the bike is mostly the same, and that wouldn't have been a huge issue if the M1 didn't make the sort of jump that it did. But the pundits have fallen into the same trap, and find it easier to blame the bike design, than to accept that their Rossi replacement is to blame for the poor results. Pedrosa had no problem getting on the podium...it might not be a win, but the bike can still run up front...unless you're MM and your universe has been upended.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Lorenzo crashed at Qatar last year after dominating the previous race. I don't recall the pages of apologies that the M1 had become a piece of .... overnight. Few gave it a second thought to say Lorenzo had lost it. Putting the responsibility on the rider, astonishing UNLIKE the today in regards to Marc. In fact Lorenzo still was written off up until 4 events ago. Then suddenly the RCV was announced to be a Piece of ..... Not just a piece of .... 4 events ago, but now Kropo revised it was a piece of .... last year too. And...not just a piece of .... but the WORST piece of .... among all the factory bikes, even WORSE than Ducati (which has yet to win a race).
But I do recall a few of us, like Birdman has nailed, that the tires had changed and Lorenzo struggled.
But I do recall a few of us, like Birdman has nailed, that the tires had changed and Lorenzo struggled.
Last edited:
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
I think the reality of the RCV is that it is slightly improved over last year's RCV, but that obviously is not enough since Yamaha really brought it with the M1. We're just in a case where it easier to blame the bike as opposed to blaming the Second Coming of Roberts/Doohan/Lawson/Schwantz/Rainey rolled into one.
Gentlemen, I think this is the classic case of the media thinking that they were going to be in the rare position of having articles write themselves for the next 15 years about the greatness of MM...only he's ....... up their agreed upon narrative of greatness...and it's far easier to blame the bike than to admit their acts of fellatio on MM are being wasted in year 3.
Jum, you're fond of the MotoWWF analogy, but part of that is made possible by the media helping to further that agenda since everyone fears losing their golden goose in the form of MM. And for a motorsport journalist, the thing they fear more than death, is finding their media credentials were denied, thus sending them out to wander in the desert for the next 40 years searching for the promised land.
Besides stroking the 81mm 800cc engines to 1000cc, what changed between 2011 and 2012? Stoner climbed onto his moral mountaintop to tell everyone.
I suspect the same changes were made from 2014 to 2015.
Similar threads
