Brno Race Discussion

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Aug 19 2008, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>IMHO neither Stoner at Brno last Sunday nor Rossi at Valencia 2006 'choked'.
These guys are not choke artists and they have demonstrated it beyond doubt race after race for years. Yes, they may crash--they may even crash in stupid ways and lose championships. That's all. Then all one can say is that they tried but binned it.
The 'choking' story sounds like an amateur psychologist's exercise... too easy, impossible to prove in itself, not supported by other facts
AGREE.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 17 2008, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If "to choke" means what I think it does I don't agree. Rossi said it the best in the interview with suzy. When you are down on points and have to push hard these things happen. He speeks out of experience you might say
Agree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 17 2008, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Doohan was actually a pretty decent anouncer, but Greg white needs to be shot ASAP.

Shot? Waterboarded, then shot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GeePee @ Aug 17 2008, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dude he still didn't get a podium.
Everyone that didn't believe you, well they were right.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Aug 17 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why do people expect every championship to be a runaway, or they try to throw an asterisk at it?

.... man, even when it was, as it 07, "certain" people tried to put an "asterisk" on it too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 17 2008, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>wheres the stoner fan club ??? what no congratulations at all. 9 page's in and not a peep
Ah, about as man when a certain other person beat Rossi, eh? History seems to repeat buddy. But its ok, me and you are here as representing the "new" Stoner fan club (of sorts) and we congratulate Rossi for them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 19 2008, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well the interview we got, he said Stoner's pace was much better than his and felt he might not catch him. But your crystal ball already knew he would anyway, right.

As far as not liking fights, well it seems neither does Rossi...especially with Elias behind him, or did you forget his comments after Turkey?

O wait, you don't care about their comments right?

Obviously you not only stopped writing posts, but stoped reding them as well.
I recommend the BBC interview linked in this tread in case you have probelems remembering what was said after the race. It is quite well suuported by the gap between stoner and rossi.

Where did that come from. Not liking fights? If you had been reading this and other treads you would have found references to that spesific episode. They all complain when they are disapointed and full of adrenalin, nothing new there and yes, I think there is little said under those sircumstanses that is really worth listening too. But in this case the difference is much more than about what they say post race. First of all Stoner enjoy winning by a mile, more then winning a fight. That is the oposite of how Rossi rate things. But you allready new that didn't you? Just stiring the pot a little, eh.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Geonerd @ Aug 17 2008, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

You frothing Rossi suckups don't give a damn about racing, all you want is to see your hero on the top step.

I have a question for those that bash Casey, Max, and anyone else who has beaten your alter ego. If Rossi's foes are all so 'undeserving' and 'crap,' what does that make Rossi? "The guy who beat a bunch of hacks?" Suddenly your God doesn't seem so special after all, eh?


And WTF is with:

"We won!" (Are you part of the team?)
"My Vale" (Graziano, is dat you?)

Frankly, it scares me that people identify so strongly with someone they don't know is any real sense, and possibly haven't even met. What kind of sick relationship do you have with the guy?

Feh....

Another frustrated soul. Let it go man. They're not all like that. Just the crazy ones. (Very easy to identify, just looks for the double standards).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 19 2008, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hammer on with your predifined obsession against Rossi fans.
If this is all you can come up with I would recomend you stop writing as well.

No. Just the ones like you. The crazy ones! I see I haven't lost my ability to nudge you where it makes you give yourself away, I suppose all cultic followers have similar reactions. Hey, I think that's the beat of drums I hear in the back ground...don't be late for your meeting, don't forget your incense burner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 17 2008, 05:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>blah blah blah blah...... he choked, end of story. Even Rossi himself said Casey succumbed to the 'pressure'. But hey look at it this way, at least Valentino actually has someone to compete with who can push him.
And of course, what ever he said is truth. Babel, are you using another name to throw us off?


(part of my obsession against "crazy" fans, who ever you root for).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Aug 17 2008, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can't really congratulate Rossi on an uncontested win. True, Stoner binned it and for whatever reason he did it himself. Rossi was behind and even though he claims he was catching Stoner we'll never know.
Disagree with your first point. Rossi made no major mistakes but still was over 15 seconds in front of the nearest 2nd position rider. Rossi had to take a risk trying to keep up with Stoner who clearly had the faster pace. This risk he managed successfully and must be congratulated for this accomplishment. And, in my opinion, I don't thin Rossi would have caught him, but as you said, who knows. Ask babel, he knows everything. He knows Rossi would have caught him. So ther you go, ask the man with the crystal <strike>pipe</strike> ball.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 19 2008, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Haha. You are so funny. Stoner had "no" pressure at all last year, right.

Not really. By a mass hynotizing lot's here thought that china and Catalunya were about as excitiong as it can get, but reality is that Stoner must have been very comfortable where he held up Rossi in the turns and blasted away on the straights. That's not pressure, but pure joy.
So, in the races there were seldom any pressure at all. He did some "bad" races and showed maturity to go for damage limitation instead of binning it. But that's about it. Then of course it's the pressure of the chmpionship it self but as no one expected him to even be in contention that wasn't much of a pressure either. So all in all I'd say it fair to say he had little to no pressure last year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 17 2008, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Face it...Hopper is not the type to get you a win. He may be able to get a podium here and there but he doesn't have thee IT factor.
I wonder if those healing broken bones have anything to do with it. Or perhaps while he was on a Suzuki, the best riders were on factory Hondas and Yamahas. Read some history, you might be surprised to find out Honda & Yamaha own most all the titles in the last 30 years with very little exception. (Now I'm really starting to think this is Babel).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 19 2008, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And of course, what ever he said is truth. Babel, are you using another name to throw us off?


(part of my obsession against "crazy" fans, who ever you root for).

This is what I said to those who think Stoner choked:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>F, being a 5 times champion doesn't make him an oracle. It's just plain stupid to take his word for it. He doesn't mind playing mind games allthough I don't think he did here, and while he said pressure might have something to do with it, he also clearly said that's what happens when you are down on points, and that was a very clear reference to his own experience.
If it's one thing these two guys have in common in their personality it's their competetivness. They want to win, and what ever pressure they have it's 99% self induced. That's not about choking or anything like that, it's about winners. Winners who couldn't care less if they end up second or tenth, it's only one position that is good enough and that's #1. In the situation Stoner were in before this weekend he had to beat Rossi to have any real hope of taking the championship, and when done is done I bet that's why he took it so easy afterwards too. He did what he had to do, failed in trying but at least tried. I respect that a lot.

you'll find it at page 11 or something.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 19 2008, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> So all in all I'd say it fair to say he had little to no pressure last year.

OK, I think my work is done here. I think I need to file you in the TOM bin, under members with Zero-Touch with reality.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 19 2008, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi had to take a risk trying to keep up with Stoner who clearly had the faster pace.

I don't think that is close cut at all. After the first lap (where Rossi was busy) the difference in pace between Rossi and Stoner was fluctuating by about half a tenth either way. After that Rossi started to close in and Stoner went down. In the race we saw between them their pace was very equal, and we will never know how they would have compared later on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 19 2008, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is what I said to those who think Stoner choked:


you'll find it at page 11 or something.
Yes babel, I read that. Did you read the post where I quote you and say I agree? Despite the overwhelming stuff I disagree with you, every now and then you say something right.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 19 2008, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think that is close cut at all. After the first lap (where Rossi was busy) the difference in pace between Rossi and Stoner was fluctuating by about half a tenth either way. After that Rossi started to close in and Stoner went down. In the race we saw between them their pace was very equal, and we will never know how they would have compared later on.
You gather this because Rossi closed the gap (still not caught up) in the lap he went down? Stoner went down early, yes, but up until that point the gap fluctuated but remained fairly over a second. In Mick Doohan's words, "A second on the track is a very large distance."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 19 2008, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You gather this because Rossi closed the gap (still not caught up) in the lap he went down? Stoner went down early, yes, but up until that point the gap fluctuated but remained fairly over a second. In Mick Doohan's word, "A second on the track is a very large distance."

I am saying that their relative pace was near identical, there was no clear cut advantage to either rider in laptimes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 17 2008, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well may as well throw my thoughts into the mix even though many have already been covered by other posters.

To me, the race was not exciting but not dull either, it was after all just a race. The VR/CS duel to me highlights a major problem when they can just up and walk away from the rest of the field but I do suspect that JL/DP will improve once their tyres allow.

All up a rather unusual VR performance in that he won by miles, but this was bought about by CS falling and not of VR's making but he only has to do what is necessary to win.

I will not buy into the 'who would have won' scenario as we will never know, but what we do know is that VR stayed upright and now has a realistic unassailable lead (VR doesn't make many high point scoring mistakes).

But, I will say that there is no way CS choked. He was doing what he had to in order to with the World Championship and that was to finish in front of VR in all remaining races. Unfortunately it did not pan out in this race but judging by his body language in the pits on his return I do think that a large weight has been lifted from his shoulders as a result (if that makes sense).

Great post, as usual.