Being Valentino Rossi...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 20 2007, 09:00 AM) [snapback]104882[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
But I actually don't give a damn if Rossi goes Bridgestone .... or even think its a good thing ( there's only one way to prove whether "the tyres" were a problem ). You have a one track mind ..... thats my problem





I think the saying is the same in english as in Norwegian "You can't see the forest for the spline in the eye" or something like that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Dec 12 2007, 12:33 AM) [snapback]104083[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Do you work for Honda by any chance, or are you old Biaggi's fans?
Do you really think that racing on Stones in '08 amounts to having a head start? Or, do you really believe Honda, Repsol and Pedrosa have less influence than Rossi on Dorna and other bodies?

As a matter of fact, Honda pushed the new 800cc formula with the main aim of beating Valentino Rossi, which has been their declared target since the end of 2003 (check out what Kanazawa said after the Honda-Rossi divorce).

They tried to swarm him with as many Honda's as they could since 2004, giving full support to any rider who managed to be the most successful anti-Rossi weapon.

The funny thing is that Honda, the real godfather (or godmother) of MotoGP, managed to beat Rossi only thanks to the skill and dedication of a rider they had never believed in, - a certain Nicky Hayden.

For 2007 they changed their strategy: no more 'swarming' Rossi with sheer quantity, but focusing on creating the perfect bike-rider-tyres combination to beat him. A combination in which Hayden had no place, surprisingly.

They thought the perfect combination was Pedrosa-new800ccPedrobike-Michelin (after 2005 Michelin have been working closer with Honda than with Rossi), but it backfired on them badly as they actually created the perfect formula for Stoner-DucatiDesmo-Bridgestone
I must say I really enjoyed 2007 in this respect!

So much for the 'Rossi always had everything in his favour and controls everything' theory.

hey guys, first I am new and hiding while my wife burns, em, I mean cooks dinner so I am trying to catch up on these threads; but I thought this comment to be really spot on...

also Rossi has earned whatever special treatment he can get and Dorna should be thankful as they have literally, as we say in the states "blown- up" in large part due to Rossi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cjayz75 @ Dec 21 2007, 12:52 PM) [snapback]104952[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
hey guys, first I am new and hiding while my wife burns, em, I mean cooks dinner so I am trying to catch up on these threads; but I thought this comment to be really spot on...

also Rossi has earned whatever special treatment he can get and Dorna should be thankful as they have literally, as we say in the states "blown- up" in large part due to Rossi



This is the part some people just don't get.
<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%NOBODY deserves special treatment.

Whatever happened to the good old days..........when riders put on a good show and they were paid in trophies and cash?

Now they get paid in rules changes too?!

Back in my day, people became FIM management if they wanted rules changes.

There is a reason riding and governing are kept separate--to protect the integrity of the sport. Rossi has been paid handsomely, he has a house full of trophies, and he is an international star. He earned all of that. If he thinks the sport is going in the wrong direction he needs to retire and get some experience sanctioning race events, then join the FIM.

Rossi getting special treatment is just as bad as Ecclestone owning part of Minardi. Why do the governing bodies standby and watch this stuff happen? I think the FIM & FIA have been figureheads for a very long time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 21 2007, 04:09 AM) [snapback]104958[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Whatever happened to the good old days..........when riders put on a good show and they were paid in trophies and cash?

Now they get paid in rules changes too?!

Back in my day, people became FIM management if they wanted rules changes.

There is a reason riding and governing are kept separate--to protect the integrity of the sport. Rossi has been paid handsomely, he has a house full of trophies, and he is an international star. He earned all of that. If he thinks the sport is going in the wrong direction he needs to retire and get some experience sanctioning race events, then join the FIM.

Rossi getting special treatment is just as bad as Ecclestone owning part of Minardi. Why do the governing bodies standby and watch this stuff happen? I think the FIM & FIA have been figureheads for a very long time.


You are blowing things out of proportion, Rossi is the legend in the field they are gonna listen to him.

Just like maybe in 10yrs if Stoner is the Legend in the field... they will listen to him.

The way Stoner was talking towards the end of last season he wanted to be listened to now, a guy in his second season at the highest level?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 21 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]104979[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You are blowing things out of proportion, Rossi is the legend in the field they are gonna listen to him.

Just like maybe in 10yrs if Stoner is the Legend in the field... they will listen to him.

The way Stoner was talking towards the end of last season he wanted to be listened to now, a guy in his second season at the highest level?

I agree with this for some things certainly, and rossi deserves great praise for his work in the safety area for instance, where the younger riders including stoner have apparently not pulled their weight.

However I agree with mylexicon that an individual current competitor, no matter how legendary, should not have any role ahead of other current competitors in determining technical regulations as this obviously potentially advantages him. Stoner has even less claim than rossi to do this.

Having said this, I think rossi probably was consulted about the new tyre regulations and supported changes likely to disadvantage him( I meant in 2006).

Whatever happened behind the scenes Rossi is now on Bridgestones, but I reckon this move puts the pressure on him more than ever to perform well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Dec 21 2007, 03:37 PM) [snapback]104983[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
However I agree with mylexicon that an individual current competitor, no matter how legendary, should not have any role ahead of other current competitors in determining technical regulations as this obviously potentially advantages him. Stoner has even less claim than rossi to do this.


i agree a rider should not have any influence on technical regulations unless they are for safety reasons.

his tyre change however, thats personal preference and it seems he was being blocked a little on that front so he went to Dorna.

Now peoples opinion of Rossi is that he makes the rules.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 21 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]104998[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i agree a rider should not have any influence on technical regulations unless they are for safety reasons.

his tyre change however, thats personal preference and it seems he was being blocked a little on that front so he went to Dorna.

Now peoples opinion of Rossi is that he makes the rules.

I have no problem with the tyre change, or with rossi in general.

I do have a problem with dorna, but up to now I think that they have demonstrated incompetence rather than prejudice in their influence on technical regulations. The recent quotes from ezpeleta which may have nothing to do with rossi seem to indicate a fair amount of confidence in his (ezpeletas) ability to run the technical agenda in the future. I am not sure what the basis for this confidence is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 21 2007, 06:26 PM) [snapback]104998[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i agree a rider should not have any influence on technical regulations unless they are for safety reasons.

his tyre change however, thats personal preference and it seems he was being blocked a little on that front so he went to Dorna.

Now peoples opinion of Rossi is that he makes the rules.


Spot on!

There was no rule that a rider or a team can not change tyres, so which rule has Rossi over-ridden?

He has applied his own marketing weight against a resistance dictated by merely business reasons. No rules of this sport have been bent...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frizzle @ Dec 21 2007, 03:27 AM) [snapback]104953[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This is the part some people just don't get.
<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%NOBODY deserves special treatment.


How can a treatment that the majority of the riders enjoy, become in any way special when Rossi gets it also?

The real oddity has been the resistance opposed by Bridgestone to supplying not only Rossi, but also other riders and teams. A resistance dictated by hush-hush commercial contracts and behind-the-scenes favouritisms!

In the face of this kind of attitude, the threat by Dorna to go to a control tyre was more than justified and it proved effective. Honda also could have got the Japanese rubber at that point, but they opted to stick to Michelin!

All this has been positive and not negative for the sport, and thanks to Rossi's and Ezpeleta's determination we will all enjoy next season Stoner and Rossi dueling on the same rubber!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Dec 21 2007, 05:58 PM) [snapback]105007[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
How can a treatment that the majority of the riders enjoy, become in any way special when Rossi gets it also?



Because the other riders didn't get Dorna to blackmail Bridgestone to get their tyres.

No one is opposed to Rossi running on Bridgestones, just the way he got them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 21 2007, 06:38 AM) [snapback]104979[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You are blowing things out of proportion, Rossi is the legend in the field they are gonna listen to him.


They absolutely should listen to him--when he dismounts and hangs up his gloves.

Right now they should be listening to Doohan, Schwantz, Rainey, Criville, KRJR and the rest of the ex-champs who aren't on a manufacturers payroll.

Rossi will have his turn to influence. It shouldn't be while he's perched on the subframe.

The only way to listen to Rossi now is if he were some kind of benevolent, altruistic, utilitarian who only cared about the advancement of the sport. The latest tire deal has ensured he is never seen as the motorcycling Jesus.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 21 2007, 07:07 PM) [snapback]105015[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
They absolutely should listen to him--when he dismounts and hangs up his gloves.

Right now they should be listening to Doohan, Schwantz, Rainey, Criville, KRJR and the rest of the ex-champs who aren't on a manufacturers payroll.

Rossi will have his turn to influence. It shouldn't be while he's perched on the subframe.

The only way to listen to Rossi now is if he were some kind of benevolent, altruistic, utilitarian who only cared about the advancement of the sport. The latest tire deal has ensured he is never seen as the motorcycling Jesus.



Well i don't see the point in listening to guys who have been off the scene for a while.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 21 2007, 03:04 PM) [snapback]105027[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well i don't see the point in listening to guys who have been off the scene for a while.


Because you can't poll the riders every time you have to make a decision. Most of all you can't poll one rider and then go with what he says.

Can we all agree on this scenario? Rossi whined. Michelin told Dorna and their customers there was a possibility they were pulling out. Dorna called the tire meeting and asked Bridgestone to supply, they decline. Dorna told them to supply Rossi, they declined. Michelin saw a chance to recover by offering a Michelin control tire, they put the poll on MGP.com so they could show B-stone that half the fans wanted control no matter what. B-stone got antsy realized they couldn't afford for that to happen and added Rossi. Michelin got the rules changes in Rossi's stead.

I guess it was going to be between Rossi and Pedrosa. I don't think Hayden or Edwards really had a clue what was going on because they were preoccupied with other development.

You can't fault Rossi for firing a warning shot across Bridgestone's bow. Unfortunately, his warning shot connected. Live with the consequences or don't go around shooting your mouth off.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Helix @ Dec 21 2007, 07:16 PM) [snapback]105011[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Because the other riders didn't get Dorna to blackmail Bridgestone to get their tyres.

No one is opposed to Rossi running on Bridgestones, just the way he got them.


You should rather be opposed to the way Bridgestone was refusing to supply tyres to more would-be customers...!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Dec 21 2007, 04:45 PM) [snapback]105032[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You should rather be opposed to the way Bridgestone was refusing to supply tyres to more would-be customers...!!!


Here's the gig. The manufacturers compete, they agree to pay all expenses to get to the events they don't get money from the events. The manufacturers get free advertising and a place to develop their future products. The riders are contract employees of the manufacturers and so are the tire companies.

Dorna/FIM aren't even in a contract with the tire manufacturers. The manufacturers have to get FIM approval to supply, that's about it.

The tire companies don't work for Dorna, neither do the manufacturers. If Dorna gives specific instructions to the manufacturers or the manufacturers contract laborers, those people should be considered employees of Dorna. Unpaid employees are called slaves.

If you want to have tires built by slaves, then yes, Dorna should be allowed to tell B-stone what teams to supply.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Dec 22 2007, 12:45 AM) [snapback]105032[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You should rather be opposed to the way Bridgestone was refusing to supply tyres to more would-be customers...!!!


Bridgestone are a commercial business, it is their right to supply their product to whom they wish, they didn't think they could adequately supply any more teams so they refused, that's a business decision, and you can't oppose them for that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Dec 22 2007, 12:45 AM) [snapback]105031[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Because you can't poll the riders every time you have to make a decision. Most of all you can't poll one rider and then go with what he says.

Can we all agree on this scenario? Rossi whined. Michelin told Dorna and their customers there was a possibility they were pulling out. Dorna called the tire meeting and asked Bridgestone to supply, they decline. Dorna told them to supply Rossi, they declined. Michelin saw a chance to recover by offering a Michelin control tire, they put the poll on MGP.com so they could show B-stone that half the fans wanted control no matter what. B-stone got antsy realized they couldn't afford for that to happen and added Rossi. Michelin got the rules changes in Rossi's stead.

I guess it was going to be between Rossi and Pedrosa. I don't think Hayden or Edwards really had a clue what was going on because they were preoccupied with other development.

You can't fault Rossi for firing a warning shot across Bridgestone's bow. Unfortunately, his warning shot connected. Live with the consequences or don't go around shooting your mouth off.


Yes thats how i feel it wen't down, it's unfortunate Rossi had to do it this way but he's good at engineering what he wants and getting it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Helix @ Dec 22 2007, 12:40 PM) [snapback]105042[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Bridgestone are a commercial business, it is their right to supply their product to whom they wish, they didn't think they could adequately supply any more teams so they refused, that's a business decision, and you can't oppose them for that.


We should all oppose them for that.

Tyres are too important in racing to let tyre manufacturers decide who they supply and who they don't. That way, they influence too much the outcome of a competition which is NOT about tyres but about motorcycles and riders.

Ohlins is wholly owned by Yamaha but they supply their suspensions to Hondas too. Brembo are the best brakes and are rightly supplied too all comers without discrimination. Why should tyres, which are even more important, be different?

Either a free market, or a control tyre. I agree with Ezpeleta. Not only that, but I think the control tyre will inevitably arrive in 2009 or 2010.