Being Valentino Rossi...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Dec 15 2007, 03:40 AM) [snapback]104388[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This is a very good point and one not really made during the previous lengthy tyre discussion. Of course yamaha and honda are the ones who ultimately decide on tyres and sign the contracts, not their riders. Rossi certainly has more influence with yamaha than pedrosa does with honda.
It is perhaps vaguely possible this is why rossi changed teams .

That is not vague at all. It's THE reason, well not the tire issue but the ability to control his own career and NOT have it controlled by manager and equipment supplier. In addition he needed a challenge.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
"Being valentino rossi" is a double-edged sword; sure you have influence, but your actions and utterances are also subject to much greater attention, analysis and re-analysis and criticism. Casey stoner who is much less comfortable and adroit with the press is starting to find this in his new position of prominence.


I think the tire issue is a good example of how his popularity work both fore and against him. He get the tires, but get critisized for forcing his way, allthough that force is related to the popularity not any brute force he is using.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Dec 15 2007, 02:31 PM) [snapback]104444[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
That is not vague at all. It's THE reason, well not the tire issue but the ability to control his own career and NOT have it controlled by manager and equipment supplier.

This was actually my point - please note smiley.

I am a stoner fan, but do not see hating a great and stylish rider like rossi as a necessary corollary of that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Dec 14 2007, 07:40 AM) [snapback]104273[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
...........................
Had Rossi been the only guy asking for the tire change and he gets it then all would have been a fairly moot point. But when you got three guys (on public record) asking for the same thing, and only one gets his way, even to the point of splitting the team, then what can we fairly conclude?


I conclude that the other two eventually opted to stay with Michelin. I do not believe for one second the story that Bridgestone does not have the 'capacity' to supply tyres to more than one additional rider. That is obvious bullit! Ridiculous.

Honda have decided to stay with Michelin, that's the simple fact. Otherwise both Pedro and Nicky would have been given the Stones too. Mind you, betting on Michelin has not been proven to be the wrong bet yet!

Apart from this obvious fact, some here seem to think that tyre supplier should have the freedom to decide who they supply or favour, and who they refuse to supply, at their sole discretion. I insist that this is a far worse scenario for the sport, than Dorna ordering them to supply tyres to all those who want them.

Tyre suppliers should never be allowed to decide who can fight for the championship, and who can't. Period.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Dec 16 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]104476[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I do not believe for one second the story that Bridgestone does not have the 'capacity' to supply tyres to more than one additional rider. That is obvious bullit! Ridiculous.


Well that part was the one bit of sanity in the whole saga to me ..... they aren't production tyres ... they don't do massive runs of motogp race tyres and the staff they have at hand producing them are highly skilled, very good, and ...... not very numerous.

Do you think these tyres are production tyres? ....... I think Bridgestone has the biggest beef of all ...... they have been forced to supply tyres that they are not set-up to do. If they refused, as they tried, then Dorna held a gun to their head ( threats for single tyre ), if they accept they may become the tyre that helped Rossi get a 5th place ..... so any ground they made with Stoner ( and it was huge .... they look like the tyre that propelled a nobody to WC!! ) could be lost, If Rossi does not perform miracles on them then they are back to mediocre at best. It was a lose/lose for Bridgestone. Not to mention that the Japanese business culture would not have liked the "being told what to do".

Stoner has helped sell Bridgestones ....... if Rossi gets second in 08 .... will we be saying Bridgestones ae best?

To set up to make and supply 40 tyres per round extra for Rossi .... is costly for Bridgestone and only if Rossi gets another first might it maintain their newfound market "Cred." What is ridiculous is some suggesting that Bridgestone would love to have Rossi ..... remember those that are saying it are Rossi fans ..... they would eat of the toilet paper he uses ....... Bridgestone see only a remote benefit to signing Rossi ... and it was a forced signing at that.

No matter what Rossi says, someone always attributes it to having something to do with his ego or that he is just whining etc.

Some people read way too much into what the riders are quoted as saying.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Dec 15 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]104445[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This was actually my point - please note smiley.

Ok, i misunderstood that. And as usually you were spot on.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
I am a stoner fan, but do not see hating a great and stylish rider like rossi as a necessary corollary of that.



I know you don't and your post are allways well worth reading.

Some rights and the usual fatasy but what is really good is this:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
What is ridiculous is some suggesting that Bridgestone would love to have Rossi ..... remember those that are saying it are Rossi fans ..... they would eat of the toilet paper he uses


Your fantasy about Rossi ending 5th is getting boring, alltough when you base your logic on that is funny enough, but the last part here must be your all time low mister. On the other hand it's good to see you showing your true face and contempt for us that has been following Rossi since his 125 days.

Thank you and happy christmas

Valentino winning on Bridgestone is a major plus for them, tell me its not and make me laugh?

I don't see any negatives here, we get great racing + bridgestone get lots of publicity.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 16 2007, 06:07 AM) [snapback]104493[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
.................
To set up to make and supply 40 tyres per round extra for Rossi .... is costly for Bridgestone and only if Rossi gets another first might it maintain their newfound market "Cred." What is ridiculous is some suggesting that Bridgestone would love to have Rossi ..... remember those that are saying it are Rossi fans ..... they would eat of the toilet paper he uses ....... Bridgestone see only a remote benefit to signing Rossi ... and it was a forced signing at that.


You seem to think that rubber manufacturers give tyres to the teams for free, in return of publicity only... But they sell them for a lot of money, and make a profit, and this is the reason why it is an obvious pretext when they say they can not supply more tyres to more riders. This lie would have been exposed fully if Dorna had enforced the control tyre, with Bridgestone as sole supplier (as in F1... they do not seem to have any trouble supplying all F1 cars, why should bikes be different).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Dec 17 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]104577[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You seem to think that rubber manufacturers give tyres to the teams for free, in return of publicity only... But they sell them for a lot of money, and make a profit,


Where are the figures showing that!???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 17 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]104563[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Valentino winning on Bridgestone is a major plus for them, tell me its not and make me laugh?


has he won on them ?? I must have missed some races

Fairytales

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 17 2007, 05:34 AM) [snapback]104586[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
has he won on them ?? I must have missed some races

Fairytales


well he wins every year doesn't he?

and when he does Bridgestone will be all smiles... best bit of business they ever did.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BarryMachine @ Dec 17 2007, 06:06 AM) [snapback]104580[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Where are the figures showing that!???


So you really did not know that race tyres (like race suspensions or race brakes) are SOLD to the teams, not given for free?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Dec 17 2007, 09:46 AM) [snapback]104624[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So you really did not know that race tyres (like race suspensions or race brakes) are SOLD to the teams, not given for free?

Hi J4,

You really need to do your homework buddy. This issue of preferential treatments really seems to get lost with many Rossi fans. Its seems its so difficult to make a case against it, so we turn our attention to other peripheral elements of the debate.

Tires are given, FOR FREE, to the top teams, not "SOLD"--that's a fact! The tires are NOT given for free and are "SOLD" to other satellite teams. In fact, not only do the ‘lesser’ teams have to pay for it, gut they don’t even get the ‘top product’. Now hows that for ‘unfair’. Make no mistake about it, Rossi’s team isn’t gonna shell out a dime for his tires. Even if he did on paper, which I doubt that will be the case because this is an understood practice in MotoGP, the team still won’t ‘really’ be paying for .....

Haha, you think they make a profit? Nah man, this is called ‘marketing’ the profit is made on the sale to us, the happy consumer who thinks his tires have MotoGP technology in them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Dec 17 2007, 07:40 PM) [snapback]104626[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hi J4,

You really need to do your homework buddy. This issue of preferential treatments really seems to get lost with many Rossi fans. Its seems its so difficult to make a case against it, so we turn our attention to other peripheral elements of the debate.

Tires are given, FOR FREE, to the top teams! The tires are NOT given for free and are charged to other satellite teams. In fact, not only do the ‘lesser’ teams have to pay for it, gut they don’t even get the ‘top product’. Now hows that for ‘unfair’. Make no mistake about it, Rossi’s team isn’t gonna shell out a dime for his tires. Even if he did on paper, which I doubt that will be the case because this is an understood practice in MotoGP, the team still won’t ‘really’ be paying for .....

Haha, you think they make a profit? Nah man, this is called ‘marketing’ the profit is made on the sale to us, the happy consumer who thinks his tires have MotoGP technology in them.


With all respect, I think it is you who need to review this better. The situation you describe might have been true many years ago. Now racing is a business and nobody is racing for the pure glory or the pure 'marketing' return.

Honda for instance created HRC as a separate company for the specialized purpose of racing - and HRC has to make a profit independently of the mother company to continue racing. Racing is no more a publicity investment made with the hope for a marketing return!

They all want glory and good sales, of course, but the art nowadays is to make a profit even going after these things, instead of just spending as it was in the past...

So rest assured, nobody is giving anybody anything for free! The forms of payment may be creative in some cases, and be formally different from a cash transaction, but Bridgestone or Michelin or whoever are not giving any team any tyre for free - they HAVE to make a profit and enter into detailed commercial contracts with manufacturers and teams they supply

I think Bridgestones got all the publicity they needed when Rossi started whining for them. What more could they ask for? A 5 time world champion saying he was not going to race unless he had Bridgestones too. I can totally see why they dragged on and on by saying no to him. All the time they continued to get the FREE publicity.

From Bridgestones perspective, I see no upside to them giving Rossi the tires. If Rossi wins on them, all the credit will be given to the rider. Rossi has won on Michelin, on Honda, on Yamaha. And each time he has been given credit for the accomplishment. Why would it be different with Bridgestones?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Dec 17 2007, 11:08 AM) [snapback]104628[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
With all respect, I think it is you who need to review this better.

Fair enough. It was exactly how I describe in my previous post up until 2007, yes this season. But unless something has changed for 2008 that I am un-aware of, I don't see why it would be any different.

Reference: Randy Mamola's Columns for Alpinestars.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Dec 17 2007, 11:12 AM) [snapback]104629[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think Bridgestones got all the publicity they needed when Rossi started whining for them. What more could they ask for? A 5 time world chmpion saying he was nt going to race unless he had Bridgestones too. I can totall see why they dragged on and on by saying no to him. they continued to get the FREE publicity.

From Bridgestones perspective, I see no upside to them giving Rossi the tires. If Rossi wins on them, all the credit will be given to the rider. Rossi has won on Michelin, on Honda, on Yamaha. And each time he has been given credit for the accomplishment. Why would it be different with Bridgestones?

Excellent point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 16 2007, 10:33 PM) [snapback]104590[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
well he wins every year doesn't he?

and when he does Bridgestone will be all smiles... best bit of business they ever did.

Yes, Rossi wins consistently. He is an outstanding talent.

As far as the "best bit of business" well I think they did this by years of hard work and commitment; lets remember that Bridgestone did the hard work of entering this Michelin dominated sport as an underdog, then proceeded to do the hard and expensive work of developing a great product. I think they would benefit more from having people other than Rossi win on their tires in my opinion. Why, well Crvlvr touched on this concept. Imagine how more compelling your marketing is when you can present your product as so good that others can win on it, not just the "great Rossi". This is called marketing value. So yes, I'm sure having Rossi win on your product is a good thing, but an even better thing is the statement/message of having your product win outside of the establishment; it says your product is the reason why--there is more marketing value in that in my opinion.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(#36 Fan @ Dec 16 2007, 01:10 AM) [snapback]104505[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
No matter what Rossi says, someone always attributes it to having something to do with his ego or that he is just whining etc.

Some people read way too much into what the riders are quoted as saying.

Hi 36 fan, I agree with you.

However,

that could be said about Max Biaggi; nevertheless, I usually find a "shortage" of Rossi fans using this same standard on Rossi or others making similar statements about their equipment.

Do you find this interesting?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Dec 16 2007, 08:42 AM) [snapback]104538[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Your fantasy about Rossi

Yeah, I know what you mean, some people think he's already won on Bridgestones, eh.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Dec 14 2007, 12:03 PM) [snapback]104333[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Power comes from Success but also in Rossi's case its alot about the viewers he brings to the sport.

This is not the aim of an authentic contest. But it is the aim of say, WWF (the show that is the world of wrestling). Do you see the difference?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Dec 17 2007, 07:59 PM) [snapback]104638[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This is not the aim of an authentic contest. But it is the aim of say, WWF (the show that is the world of wrestling). Do you see the difference?


Its a business now as much as a sport... the money that dorna rake in they don't want to lose that.

Also its not all about the riders, the media, fans and rapport for the sport is keeping it ticking.

Sponsorship is a bit dry in Motogp compared to other sports... i think the riders are under pressure to entertain as much as winning. (Winning + Entertainment is good)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Dec 17 2007, 07:40 PM) [snapback]104626[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hi J4,

You really need to do your homework buddy. This issue of preferential treatments really seems to get lost with many Rossi fans. Its seems its so difficult to make a case against it, so we turn our attention to other peripheral elements of the debate.

Tires are given, FOR FREE, to the top teams, not "SOLD"--that's a fact! The tires are NOT given for free and are "SOLD" to other satellite teams. In fact, not only do the ‘lesser’ teams have to pay for it, gut they don’t even get the ‘top product’. Now hows that for ‘unfair’. Make no mistake about it, Rossi’s team isn’t gonna shell out a dime for his tires. Even if he did on paper, which I doubt that will be the case because this is an understood practice in MotoGP, the team still won’t ‘really’ be paying for .....

Haha, you think they make a profit? Nah man, this is called ‘marketing’ the profit is made on the sale to us, the happy consumer who thinks his tires have MotoGP technology in them.


Is this really the case. The get the tires for free? The lesser teams doesn't even get the top tires? I am SHOCKed

Wait a minute, came to think of it. That's exactly the same way it works here in Norway (and the rest of scandinavia), as it works in Germany, as it works in the European Championship. I can't speek for GB, Spain and Italy and other major motorsports countries as I have no inside information in those series but it would really surprice me if it isn't the same way there.

Welcome to the real world.