AMA Round 2 FONTANA (Spoilers)

I usually have a look at superbike planet most days of the year and even though I don't see any of the races, I have a passing look at results (even though I look at the site mainly for the pictures ) .
Whenever I go there now, I look at superbike results and half the time there are some riders I know (Mladin, BB etc) and sometimes there is anyone I know? It confuses the hell out of me. All I want is the top series result - you know the one Mladin and Spies have dominated for the last decade. It seems like the whole thing is one giant confusing mess. Even trying to work out what class is what does my head in.
I can totally understand the fans confusion. I have no idea what DMG is trying to create but it seems they are creating it up as they go.
As to the commercials that Jumkie was referring to - it seems any American sport I've attempted to watch is one big commercial. Look at the NFL!!! How many times I've tried to watch it but have given up due to the endless commercial breaks is unbelievable. Same with baseball and ice hockey. I won't watch basketball because it's absolute ..... - well I don't watch any really due to what I've just said.


PS - I've always wondered why major American sports don't have advertising on their uniforms. Do they make up for it with add breaks??


PPS - carry on......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 23 2009, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As far as Hacking being suspended, I couldn't care less. He and Rapp are notorious for terrorizing the youngins. I think it was at Laguna in 2007 where Hacking and Rapp gave a pre-race dissertation about how stupid Herrin was for racing with #46 when he couldn't live up to the hype.

Two thirty-somethings making fun of an 18 year old kid Shows how cut-throat the AMA is, but it also shows how out of control it had gotten. Totally bush league.


On one hand you've got great guys like Schwantz out there giving fantastic support to young future champions and then there's those who don't understand the concept of growing old gracefully. Some oldskies can't help resenting the new kids. Personally - I'd like to see a foot-race between Hacking, Rapp, DuHammel and Mladadin - a hundred yard sprint for grumpy geezers. Maybe they could get sponsorship from Depends.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 24 2009, 02:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Check this out boys. Who here has Saturday nights Pro AMA racing Prime Time show Tvod (recorded)? Can somebody please count the number of advertisements from Suzuki and Kawasaki please? While your at it, also count the number of Honda and Yamaha commercials. Oh, and also the number of SPEEDTV promotional commercials (that is non revenue generating commercials, since its just their on shows they are promoting.) As Nicky Hayden once said, "The Numbers Don't Lie!"

Ok, I'll just give you the answers since I know none of you lazy ..... is going to watch the damn thing again:

Suzuki commercials: 0
Kawasaki commercials: 0
Honda commercials: 2 (However, the content was for offroad bikes & generators)
Yamaha commercials: 2 (However, the content was mainly offroad bikes)

Yup, that is right. Can you imagine the money being lost by SpeedTV because DMG has pissed of the manufactures? Try to remember last year when you watched an AMA race. Every other commercial was of the four Jap brands. No, two are completely missing, and Yamaha is there because they are the sole Jap factory in the series.

Oh, but you will see some GEICO commercials on Speed more and more in competition with Progressive's market of motorcycle insurance. And who do GEICO sponsor? Oh yeah...BUELL.

Actually, this is fine. What you should count is the number of times a commercial for Honda or Yamaha is shown during prime time television. NASCAR does that with their television partners. You watch House M.D. when FOX has the rights to broadcast the Nascar races, and you'll see an advert for nearly every commercial break. Same with TNT and when NBC had the rights. Even when F1 was broadcast on FOX and not their SpudTV network, it was advertised during prime television time. That is why they cannot attract new people. They only advertise on one television network, and only during the races. They place adverts in racing magazines. They really do nothing to market the series.

Nicky Hayden, is marketed right, could be as big as Dale Earnhardt Jr. As big as Tony Romo, Kobe Bryant. Motorcycle racing is appealing to more people than Nascar is, but the US television networks cannot see that, or do not want to take the risk. I remember in '05, the week leading up to the USGP at Laguna Seca, Nicky was on the Today Show with his Honda. They talked for a few minutes. They should have followed that up. He is the perfect demographic for advertisers. A Kentucky boy, who has kept his life clean, lives at his parents home, is considered one of the best looking bachelors in the world, and mixes it up with the Europeans every race with great success.


I do not understand why the AMA is trying to get the Buell to succeed. Most motorcycle riders that the AMA is advertising to are not fans of the Buell.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 24 2009, 02:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lex and Hayden Fan, great exchange, both of you had stuff I agreed with and disagreed with, but very interesting and informed posts. (Even thou Lex, there was some paragraphs that were confusing, as in skitzo.)

Ok, Povol, you can take the credit for calling the 09 champ before me, but you failed to clearly express why, something I'm trying to help you with.

Anyway, Austin, you mentioned "a middle finger to the manufacturers.". Well that is half right. As I have been in constant investigation to answer the enigma of DMG and its implications for American motorcycle racing. Half right because the new AMA is bad for Jap brands, but good for American and European brands! They want to have everybody show up, and to do so they need to either handicap or give unfair advantages to somebody.

Check this out boys. Who here has Saturday nights Pro AMA racing Prime Time show Tvod (recorded)? Can somebody please count the number of advertisements from Suzuki and Kawasaki please? While your at it, also count the number of Honda and Yamaha commercials. Oh, and also the number of SPEEDTV promotional commercials (that is non revenue generating commercials, since its just their on shows they are promoting.) As Nicky Hayden once said, "The Numbers Don't Lie!"

Ok, I'll just give you the answers since I know none of you lazy ..... is going to watch the damn thing again:

Suzuki commercials: 0
Kawasaki commercials: 0
Honda commercials: 2 (However, the content was for offroad bikes & generators)
Yamaha commercials: 2 (However, the content was mainly offroad bikes)

Yup, that is right. Can you imagine the money being lost by SpeedTV because DMG has pissed of the manufactures? Try to remember last year when you watched an AMA race. Every other commercial was of the four Jap brands. No, two are completely missing, and Yamaha is there because they are the sole Jap factory in the series.

Oh, but you will see some GEICO commercials on Speed more and more in competition with Progressive's market of motorcycle insurance. And who do GEICO sponsor? Oh yeah...BUELL.


Follow the money my friends.

I also just finished watching the show "This Week In NASCAR" (purely for investigative purposes). Wow, you guys should take a look at the future of AMA! Its once continues commercial, the show is a commercial, punctuated by commercials. The vehicles are commercials, the crews are commercials, the drivers are walking commercials. ONE BIG ....... COMMERCIAL! This will be the new AMA. (You heard it here first..FU Povol) Hahaha.

I failed to to clearly express why? Its not that complicated and doesnt require a lot of research.Pssst ,i will let you in on a little secret, he is better than anyone else on the grid, a lot better.He toyed around the first few races while he got his bike figured out,still passed and won at will. Unless he really likes Tommy,i expect the second race at Fontana will be more of what you can get used to for the rest of the year.I do like your reports though,keep them coming since this will be the extent of my AMA/DMG efforts this year.

I would like to see a comparison of Manufacturer commercials from last year to determine
if they have dropped off. I'm not even sure if this would even be fair because of the economy everybody is cutting back on advertising.
I just watched the Supercross race who has no affiliation with DMG and they also had
2 Yamaha and 2 Honda commercials. Supercross probabaly has a higher viewership than road racing so if they are only running 2 commercials than maybe that's the norm.
Geico ran 2 commercials as well. I don't think we are seeing more ads because of the Buell. Geico right now is the top advertiser in the country so you are seeing excessive advertising from them just about everywhere.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 23 2009, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you really think that is their intent? Why give Buell all the considerations if their grand plan is to get the bikes back up to the speed they used to be at or faster? If the DMG is going to get money into the hands of venue owners then they are banking on it happening through the takeoff of this series. And it's pretty clear to me and most informed fans that DMG have a vested interest in seeing Buell win and I think that's because DMG feels there is a lot to be gained by having an American brand winning an American series. And they're right, I think a lot of Harley riders could be turned onto this if Buells start to win on a regular basis. But if they do make the bikes go faster again, they are going to lose a lot of their new fans because they won't be able to make the 1125s, or whatever monstrosity Buell have created at that point in time, go any faster.

This is another reason why I am very skeptical of the DMG. I don't think they have any interest in making the bikes go faster. I think their insistence on 600s is an oversimplified and under-thought cost cutting measure and additionally, and more importantly, a middle finger to the manufacturers.

I'm not quite willing to buy the conspiracy that DMG are betting on Buell to carry the AMA. That's like putting all of your money on snake eyes.

The attempted move to 600s was an F U to the manufacturers b/c they sell 10x as many 600s as liter bikes. Liter bikes have higher margins so superbike is their attempt at selling us high margin rocket sleds we will never use. I don't fault them, but it's not surprising at all that the manufacturers didn't want to ditch liter bikes.

They won't let Buell continue like this b/c DSB would become a 1 make series. That is the antithesis of Edmonson's racing model. Right now I'm sure he's trying to figure out who he can trust to assess equipment parity. Whoever did the original work didn't succeed.

I am getting calls daily from friends that are going to Road Atlanta,wanting to know when we are meeting,who's staying with who,have i reserved rooms,what ..... bar are we going to Saturday night etc:.They cant believe it when i tell them im not going. We have not missed a year at Road Atlanta since the AMA came back and we have never missed Barber since they opened the track.I told them 6 months ago i wasnt going but i guess they didnt believe me. They are telling me i have to go,it wont be the same,its not about the races,its about the ride and hanging out with friends and getting away from the wives for a weekend.Besides,they say i can protest DMG better from the track,than at home.Come on man,we can make signs and ..... It all sounds very enticing because i do like to get with friends and kick up my heels and be the goof ball i used to be before i had kids. But in reality,the only thing DMG is going to listent to or pay any attention to, [as Edmondson so eloquently put it], Is his payday. When you want change,you cant just ..... and go about doing the same thing,you have to force change.Edmondson forced his change on me,im forcing my change back on him, but it will take all of us to truly make it happen. You cant go to the races,make Rogers payday,then come home and ..... about how ...... up this series is. Money talks gentlemen,and ........ walks.Get in their pockets,get in their head.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 24 2009, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not quite willing to buy the conspiracy that DMG are betting on Buell to carry the AMA. That's like putting all of your money on snake eyes.
Sorry, didn't mean to make it sound as though Edmundson has appointed Buell as the savior of the series. I just meant to say that I think there is a lot of hope that Buell can bring in the Harley crowd, and that is a huge crowd in this country.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 24 2009, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The attempted move to 600s was an F U to the manufacturers b/c they sell 10x as many 600s as liter bikes. Liter bikes have higher margins so superbike is their attempt at selling us high margin rocket sleds we will never use. I don't fault them, but it's not surprising at all that the manufacturers didn't want to ditch liter bikes.
I don't disagree with that at all, I'm pretty sure that was my point.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 24 2009, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They won't let Buell continue like this b/c DSB would become a 1 make series. That is the antithesis of Edmonson's racing model. Right now I'm sure he's trying to figure out who he can trust to assess equipment parity. Whoever did the original work didn't succeed.
When will it stop though? Based on how DMG have handled everything so far, I don't think they trust anyone to assess anything. And I don't think it's a trust issue. I think it's an ego issue. It's their way or the highway and it's been like that since this mess started.

I think it would be foolish for DMG not to make some concessions to get the 600s a little more level as they are the base of this sport and losing them would be the death of the series. However, I really don't think they will give up on making Buells win. Which is why I still don't believe that their goal is to make the bikes go faster. They've said since day one that they wanted 600s to be the premier class.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 24 2009, 06:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Video and pics from Saturday:


LINK


(I'll put up Sunday soon, it takes a grip of time to edit these. Also, somebody PM me how to imbed videos.)

What was the first thing Edmondson said to you?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Mar 24 2009, 07:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't disagree with that at all, I'm pretty sure that was my point.

I thought you were insinuating that DMG switched to 600s because they wanted the Japanese to lose. I was trying to point out that DMG want to race what people actually ride not the products with the highest margins.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I think it would be foolish for DMG not to make some concessions to get the 600s a little more level as they are the base of this sport and losing them would be the death of the series. However, I really don't think they will give up on making Buells win. Which is why I still don't believe that their goal is to make the bikes go faster. They've said since day one that they wanted 600s to be the premier class.

See, you do think DMG wanted 600s to be premier b/c they wanted the Japanese to lose.

600s outnumber liter bikes 10 to 1. They wanted the sport to be slower b/c they were trying to run in the rain at ALL venues. Why? Because DMG are trying to get sponsors involved. They want the corporate crowd to start showing up they way they do for WSBK or GP. You can't attract potential corporate sponsors unless you stick to the schedule and run all events on time.

Edmondson spoke about the importance of running in the rain when he addressed the AMA Congress. Hopefully, they will do it safely.

-

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 24 2009, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Video and pics from Saturday:


LINK


(I'll put up Sunday soon, it takes a grip of time to edit these. Also, somebody PM me how to imbed videos.)


EDIT: Damn it, I just realized I published vid in 16:9 format, sorry for poor quality guys. If I have a chance tonight I'll post it in 4:3.

Who is the vertically challenged individual at the end of that video posing with the chicks and Mladin?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 24 2009, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought you were insinuating that DMG switched to 600s because they wanted the Japanese to lose. I was trying to point out that DMG want to race what people actually ride not the products with the highest margins.



See, you do think DMG wanted 600s to be premier b/c they wanted the Japanese to lose.

600s outnumber liter bikes 10 to 1. They wanted the sport to be slower b/c they were trying to run in the rain at ALL venues. Why? Because DMG are trying to get sponsors involved. They want the corporate crowd to start showing up they way they do for WSBK or GP. You can't attract potential corporate sponsors unless you stick to the schedule and run all events on time.

Edmondson spoke about the importance of running in the rain when he addressed the AMA Congress. Hopefully, they will do it safely.
I'm sorry, I've written a lengthy response to this twice now and each time my wireless antenna has failed while clicking 'Add Reply'. This is the most problematic Apple I've ever had and I've been using for more than 20 years. It's off to the Genius Bar for me to get this fixed. Hopefully when I get back I'll have cooled off a bit and will have a laptop that remains connected to the internet for more than 16 seconds at a time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 24 2009, 07:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Video and pics from Saturday:


LINK


(I'll put up Sunday soon, it takes a grip of time to edit these. Also, somebody PM me how to imbed videos.)


EDIT: Damn it, I just realized I published vid in 16:9 format, sorry for poor quality guys. If I have a chance tonight I'll post it in 4:3.

Wow, they had the Sands Aprilia there?

What I wouldn't pay to have one of those! Wire wheels = yummy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 24 2009, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I was on my knees.

BTW, I had written you a great response regarding your decision not to got to Road Atlanta, but when I clicked to post the ....... thing timed out and I lost the entire fing thing. Err. Anyway, the gist was, you're friends are right about the experience and what its really all about going to the races. You're now allowing DMG to screw up your good times with friends, why give the man so much power? I appreciate you taking a stand for what is "good" (though I wish you would do it in the voting booth , but you gotta give this thing some time to iron out. Its just the first 2 rounds, you never know, Edmunson might be reading this forum and see the error of his ways. Nah, really, he may make adjustments before this thing gets too out of control.

Look, I have been much more effected by this than you since I already purchased my flights and tickets to WSBK Utah where this man just canceled the AMA combined event because he (Roger E.) was too ....... shrewd to compromise in a dire economic climate with the track owners. He demands way too much considering they don't show the races live whereby significantly reducing the value of the the show! And now he ...... me out of the double header WSBK/AMA too!

LINK to Stupidity

So yeah, he has shown many signs of being a jerk, like Austin said 'his way or the highway'. But even then I'm gonna still give this thing a chance and support the good people of the sport, like the riders, venues, crew, etc. and push for changes through emails and letters (which you should be doing too). Don't let your disgust for one man screw your good times. Its like a marriage, in my case addiction, which I must learn to deal with in some sort of harmony. I'm not gonna stop going to races, so as a concerned fan, I'm doing my part by voicing my opinions in letters to magazines and websites pertaining to the sport.

Your probably right about letting him .... with my good times but i am stubborn like that.I have other options such as numerous motorcycle only campgrounds tucked into the mountains where i live.Our riding group usually does 2-3 of those weekends a year where we ride all day Friday thru the mountains,go back to the cabins,take a shower,eat a home cooked meal on site,gather around a community campfire and party all night long. Get up the next day,repeat the day before, except a different set of roads,visit some bike shops,come back,take a shower ride into the closest town and have a big ... steak dinner,ride back and party some more around the campfire.Get up Sunday,have an onsite homecooked breakfast,pack up and go home.That weekend costs me about 150.00 dollars compared to 600-700 for a race weekend. I get to hang with friends,get ...... up,and do a bunch of riding and dont have to watch fixed racing and pay 22.00 bucks for a ...... T-shirt Instead of 2-3 of those a year,i can do 5-6 and blow off DMG, and financially support people who are truly glad to have your business.

PS; I wouldnt be telling anyone i had my picture taken with Mladin while i was on my knees.Some might say that is taking fanboy to a new level.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 24 2009, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought you were insinuating that DMG switched to 600s because they wanted the Japanese to lose. I was trying to point out that DMG want to race what people actually ride not the products with the highest margins.



See, you do think DMG wanted 600s to be premier b/c they wanted the Japanese to lose.

600s outnumber liter bikes 10 to 1. They wanted the sport to be slower b/c they were trying to run in the rain at ALL venues. Why? Because DMG are trying to get sponsors involved. They want the corporate crowd to start showing up they way they do for WSBK or GP. You can't attract potential corporate sponsors unless you stick to the schedule and run all events on time.

Edmondson spoke about the importance of running in the rain when he addressed the AMA Congress. Hopefully, they will do it safely.
OK, cooler heads have for the most part prevailed. Now, let's see if I can remember any of my points.

It's not that DMG want the Japanese to lose, it's that they want to open it up to a broader audience. There are more 600 riders so they can open it up that way and they want to get the Harley group interested and they are doing so by playing favorites with Buell. I think it's only a matter of time before some concessions are made to the 600s so that Buell doesn't have this big of an advantage. They can't keep things the way they are, it'll turn into a one manufacturer class and like you said, it's bad for the series and it will die. Although I would be very surprised if Buell's go back to being obsolete in road racing like they had been.

I'm sure Edmundson wants to race in the rain at every track but it's just not possible with the circuits this series visits, even on 600s. A reduction in capacity is a stop gap measure and something that sidesteps the issue. Take MotoGP for example, has the racing gotten any safer since the switch to 800s? I'm not trying to say that a switch to 600s in the premier class will lead to nasty highsides, but I don't think it will make the racing much safer, if at all. I'm no amateur racer nor am I a physicist nor am I an engineer but I have to believe that the difference in corner speed between a 600 and a Superbike is not all that great. And as the point has been made countless times before, corners are where crashes happen so reducing capacity isn't going to address that concern too much.

I don't remember if I read it on one of Jumkie's race weekend posts or if it was from 'Soup but I read that there were riders who would not race on Sunday if the track remained wet. That speaks volumes more to me than Edmundson saying that it's safe to ride 600s in the wet on an oval.

Sorry, I hope this has made sense. I remembered most of my points but haven't been able to articulate them as I had in my previous attempts. Hope you can get the jist of what I'm trying to convey.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 24 2009, 10:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>LINK to Stupidity

I'm sorry to brag, but am I a clairvoyant son of a ..... or what?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The track paid a sanction fee of more than $250,000 to bring all four AMA classes in 2008, but knowledgeable sources said the track also paid a percentage of spectator ticket sale revenue. No percentage of the spectator gate was included in 2009 negotiations.

There it is, the real reason. No ticket rip for 2009.

Miller want to keep the Ben Spies premium, DMG are getting the boot as a result.

You can't really blame Edmondson for refusing $150,000, but his decision not to run sbk is a bit suspect

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 24 2009, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry to brag, but am I a clairvoyant son of a ..... or what?



There it is, the real reason. No ticket rip for 2009.

Miller want to keep the Ben Spies premium, DMG are getting the boot as a result.

You can't really blame Edmondson for refusing $150,000, but his decision not to run sbk is a bit suspect
Edmondson has to realize that he is negotiating from a weak posistion.You either suck it up,strengthen you posistion for the next time around or not play at all.He chose to not play at all.The biggest question out there, is if he has contracts with the tracks at the stand alone AMA events or is he depending on letters of intent like he obviously has with the tracks that are hosting joint events.