A world without Valentino Rossi

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Ah Rossi has had everyhting & everyone in his pocket argument again huh, hmmm lets see (By the way if my memory is failing me abit dont be afraid to correct me if any bits are wrong)



Many a rider has had preferential treatment in some way shape or form over the years in ALL racing series -



Superbikes (World & British) - Ducati enjoyed a sizeable advantage in both engine power, displacement & weight. To add to that when they were not 1 minute ahead of the field they had other things changed like the tyres to suit their bikes.



500's (Now this is where i may be wrong as im basing this on what someone told me once at Assen) - Doohan or the Repsol team were getting uprated electronics that no other rider not even those on Honda's were getting, plus something extra special in the Dunlop department??



990's - Rossi, Biaggi, Gibernau & a couple of others got overnighters from Michelin - Rossi was able to get the best out of them. What i found a bit off was that they gave the other runners like Stoner in 06 tyres made form hula hoops, hence why hea kept loosing the front.



800's - Stoner & Ducati had extra hard tyres from Bridgestone that enabled the screamer 800 to be ridden the way it was by Stoner. Since then & i think Lex may of alluded to this, the tyres have gone softer which has not helped stoner or rossi as they both like a very hard carcass tyre. Maybe that was a big part of Casey's front end woe's??



My point is that manufacturers are going to give the people they think is going to give them the best return, much like a bank lending their money to who ever is going to give the return on their investement. Rossi certailny has done that, Doohan has & most recently Stoner. I think you could probably say that Lorenzo has repayed Yamaha's choice in him by retaining the title at Yamaha last season.



After Rossi has gone it will be sopmeone else who may get tyres developed for them or something else.



I do agree that far too much emphasis is put onto Rossi although im not sure how much he has actually asked for, thats Dorna's fault not his though. These guys are competitive animals & they will seek out anything to get their noses in front & bring home the gold, whether it machinery, electronics, tyres, sponsors etc etc.
 
I have no doubt that 95% of members on this site were very big fans of Rossi initially. The lanky Italian with the talent to do what few before him have been able to. The spur of the moment celebrations upon winning a race in 125's & 250's. He was a great rider & people respected him for what he did on the track. I was a huge fan & used to yell at the TV, amazed at what this young upstart was capable of. Not so much now.



For me, Rossi started to lose his sheen when he departed Honda & went to Yamaha. About then he realised that he could manipulate the manufacturers into doing what he wanted. Honda won't do things my way, I'll go to Yamaha. Yamaha won't do things my way, I'll go to Ducati. The willingness of the manufacturers to do whatever Rossi wanted developed an ego which is unparalleled. This ego then realised that this is now my ticket to riches never before seen for a rider. He was no longer Valentino Rossi, Motorcyle Racer, he was Valentino Rossi, Businessman. This business grew to the point where he had influence over every aspect of Moto GP, and boy, hasn't he pushed that cart everywhere. Riders, manufacturers, tyre companies, sponsors have all felt the wrath of Rossi. Anyone dare challenge Rossi will be met by an army of yellow clones willing to take a bullet for their manufactured hero. Really piss him off & you could become the target of his well rehearsed after race antics which are worse than any D grade movie.



I still admire him for what he has acheived on the race track, I just don't respect the man he has become. His ........ apology last weekend is just another example of the type of man he really is.



People saying Stoner has lost a lot of fans with his comments to Rossi after the race. HA. Stoner has picked up a heap of fans by making the doctor look like a ......... I'm one of many that have vacated the Rossi Bandwagon & jumped on the Stoner rocket. No ........, just honesty & bravery.



That's a "Great" post mate. When #46 hangs up leathers this SPORT will change for the better.. . . .
 
IMO there are 20% or even less who know so many informations, and a lot smaller who can confirm them...and still Rossi has the bigger part by him self. Think about 80% who doesnt know that much...think about 14 years old girls who are rly wearing yellow glasses and they realy see things in yellow. They thought Rossi is perfect and that apoligize was nice and they love him even more. Think bigger picture and you will see why im calling him smarty.



He cant get all the fans ...even if he wins all the races, practises, qualy... and even do nothing but just smile. He cant! ...but he has them in majority and that is smart.

I would do the same if i could
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He plays a role of the GOAT...you cant know if he realy is...but he plays it good and lots of ppl beleive him!



I hate him and love him... that what everyone or the sport needs. Lots of HATE and lots of LOVE! Sadly that sells the most to...



peace
 
I certainly dont hate Vale...hate is such an ugly word. But I loathe his modus operandi.

Absolutely, the way Vale has acquitted himself in recent years off track has left me with a jaded view of the man. His race etiquette which was once so impeccable began to slowly deteriorate from the Sete feude onwards.



Any critic of Vale on this forum is branded a 'hater' - there are a few for sure which blight PS - nothing that can't be erradicated by a deployment of the ignore option.



I don't hate any of these guys - I don't follow the sport to hate its participants, and in an alpha male paddock these mindgames and shows of intimidation are inevitable. I do however strongly dislike the cynical maniplulation exerted by some.
 
Those who do not like it should simply ignore the bubble altogether and concentrate on the racing, enjoying the excellent TV and internet coverage the sport has nowadays, -- which is paid in good part by the more casual audience.

This is an aspect I have also considered, we didn't even get the races on TV in australia till the mid 80s. The internet is a mixed blessing though, since it sometimes leads me, widely regarded as peaceable soul, to fight with people I would very likely be friends with if I encountered them non-virtually.



The main problem with the rossi phenomenon for me is the apparent compulsory vilification of any half-way serious rival by the more zealous camp followers.
 
This is an aspect I have also considered, we didn't even get the races on TV in australia till the mid 80s. The internet is a mixed blessing though, since it sometimes leads me, widely regarded as peaceable soul, to fight with people I would very likely be friends with if I encountered them non-virtually.



The main problem with the rossi phenomenon for me is the apparent compulsory vilification of any half-way serious rival by the more zealous camp followers.





Well before the Rossi era
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and we had hot and cold running SBK too, but sadly the cost of the Rossi/Dorna era has made local TV stations choose not to beable to afford that as well as MGP
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The main problem with the rossi phenomenon for me is the apparent compulsory vilification of any half-way serious rival by the more zealous camp followers.



in my mind that is the negative consequence of the "good rossi years" of 1996-2003 .

keep in mind though that the reaction to jerez 2011 was far worse than in 2005 even though 05 was in my mind much worse



it comes down to two options really. rossi finally sobers up and realizes he's slowly running dry on public sympathy if he continues like that for the rest of his career and we see the good rossi of old days once again or he retires soon.



either way i'm happy as there is nothing more i can stand less than anything distorting my beloved competition and just for now rossi sadly embodies too much of the things i can't stand in gp racing





i seriously dislike the guy for ruining my beloved childhood memories of cheering him with his behaviour on and off track, only thing he can do to change that is by being a guy worth cheering for again
 
in my mind that is the negative consequence of the "good rossi years" of 1996-2003 .

keep in mind though that the reaction to jerez 2011 was far worse than in 2005 even though 05 was in my mind much worse

God knows what the overall reaction is, there are obviously quite a few stoner zealots including me on here. Stoner seems to be copping as much criticism for being upset about being taken out as for complaining about almost being taken out, both times through no error of his own, showing that my first assessment, that the vilification of him in relation to the laguna seca incident was unreasonable, was correct.



This was a racing incident as stoner said, it was quite low percentage in the conditions, and totally unnecessary since stoner was prepared to let him go anyway, but was on something resembling a racing line. 2005 was worse as you say, there was absolutely no chance of him negotiating that corner at that speed and angle, there were no caveats regarding the conditions or the bike and his knowledge of it, and as lex has said previously the gibernau curse seemd to be involved in his motives.
 
Are they Rossi haters? Compare to the hate toward JL by the boppers in last season, you cannot call it the hate. He deserves the criticism because it was his mistake which cost Stoner`s race. The boppers even imagined JL ignored BS when he won the title in Sepang, and make it like a big deal. Even some media jumped on it. No offense to Rossi fans, but the boppers are more like the boyband fan girls or the cult members who can see no fault of Rossi. His demand to Yamaha to drop JL is outrageous. But, to boppers, he has every right to say it as M1 is single handedly developed by him plus Burgess, and JL has no right to win on it. Yamaha still cannot find a title sponsor this year after winning 3 titles. That is not a win-win situation. While the value of Rossi is going up, the others go downhill even they are in the winning side. Rossi may become too influential that the rest of riders/team look unimportant in the motogp? Media and Dorna do not want to do anything to upset him. That is not a healthy situation, and not good for the sport. When I saw the Ducati guys clapping when he arrived to the pit after the race, they even look like the boppers. If your rider kicked out the other rider by his own error and gained some points, do you clap?
 
some really good posts on this thread. i too am in the camp of "used to be" rossi fan. i'm not sure exactly when i started to dislike him, or that it was any one paticular incident that made me see his true colors. maybe it was just shoved in my face weekend and week out, and if you questioned anything rossi it was an immediate "HATER!!!" response.
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i think it was more the fans that turned me off on the whole rossi phenom than anything else. once that happened you could quickly see that all things rossi were not healthy for GP.



first and foremost i am a motorcycle fan. second a kawasaki guy. third a racer. forth an enthusiast of the sport. a world without Rossi you ask digger? oh i dunno. i think it will be just fine.
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A motogp world that never had Rossi in it is a scary one. There is a chance we would be calling Max the goat right now, and I dont think any of us really want that.
<
 
I don't like Rossi because he's a money hungry self-absorbed eccentric egotisitical maniac who puts on a front to the media to portray himself in a positive light.



Greedy bastaad done ..... all for charity.
 
This is an aspect I have also considered, we didn't even get the races on TV in australia till the mid 80s. The internet is a mixed blessing though, since it sometimes leads me, widely regarded as peaceable soul, to fight with people I would very likely be friends with if I encountered them non-virtually.



The main problem with the rossi phenomenon for me is the apparent compulsory vilification of any half-way serious rival by the more zealous camp followers.



The overzealous followers can be ignored... What difference can they make? Speaking of vilification, how would you call the insults that are freely thrown on Rossi these days? "Vilification" describes it perfectly in my book.
rolleyes.gif
 
Example? Some people keep nailing rossi and lorenzo for their flamboyance, which is in stark contrast to a lot of the riders or old, hence the term, sterile robots

Flamboyance? I want my flamboyance on the track, not dressed as an astronaut standing in a sand pit. Randy Mamola and Kevin Schwantz laugh that you apparently believe bike racing started in 2001.
 
33 Coupe! Solid.



Digger, u make a fair question, tho i disagreed with ur support.

Tek, u make a good point, may i counter, that while 800 formula flopped, Wsbk was continuing to summit in terms of spectacle & grid sizes. I think part of it is because one series focused more on racing while the other on marketing.

Quite true about sbk but wasn't it honda that pushed for the 800cc.change? I think must would agree that the 990 era was a better show. For a few years most races have been a cure for insomniacs. Sure there are instances of exciting racing but mostly it's been boring. I forgot who said it but he said it's easier to hit the limit of your bike and stay there for most of the race due to the electronics.
 
I wonder where Rossi will go if he doesn't show improvement and get some positive results for this year and the next. Suzuki? World Superbike?



Hayden is done with though..... his motorcycle salesman career is nearing an end. But hey look on the brightside, he can always sell toothpaste with that big million dollar smile of his.
 
The overzealous followers can be ignored... What difference can they make? Speaking of vilification, how would you call the insults that are freely thrown on Rossi these days? "Vilification" describes it perfectly in my book.
rolleyes.gif

Sure, rossi is now being vilified, and that it is largely in response to years of vilification of other riders by the over-zealous among his fans does not justify it.



I personally got stuck in to valentino in the race thread to an inappropriate degree, but the circumstance and the predictable response to it were particularly annoying for a stoner fan looking for him to silence his critics this year. He was doing exactly what his critics claim he is incapable of, riding a heady and to that point entirely successful tactical race; he didn't need to take risks to win the race, just keep jorge and dani covered as he was doing. He was taken out by the sort of riding his critics accuse him of, with the double irony that the error was very likely substantially contributed to by flaws in the ducati not acknowledged by those critics when he was riding it. The loss of points may be very significant and as damaging to his championship bid as being beaten by valentino at laguna seca in 2008 was, given that jorge made no significant riding error last year and is good enough to do the same this year. As an aside, I think you and I both have to admit jorge is conducting himself in a classy fashion this year.



I am not sure about the over-zealous followers being able to be ignored, they are quite vocal, and even a small percentage of a (well deserved) very large fan-base is a significant number. It is my view that stoner's vilification by these people nearly derailed his entire career in 2009, since ducati and/or marlboro seem to have become convinced largely by their fantastic speculations that stoner was psychiatrically disturbed and/or pyschologically broken.
 
I have no doubt that 95% of members on this site were very big fans of Rossi initially. The lanky Italian with the talent to do what few before him have been able to. The spur of the moment celebrations upon winning a race in 125's & 250's. He was a great rider & people respected him for what he did on the track. I was a huge fan & used to yell at the TV, amazed at what this young upstart was capable of. Not so much now.



For me, Rossi started to lose his sheen when he departed Honda & went to Yamaha. About then he realised that he could manipulate the manufacturers into doing what he wanted. Honda won't do things my way, I'll go to Yamaha. Yamaha won't do things my way, I'll go to Ducati. The willingness of the manufacturers to do whatever Rossi wanted developed an ego which is unparalleled. This ego then realised that this is now my ticket to riches never before seen for a rider. He was no longer Valentino Rossi, Motorcyle Racer, he was Valentino Rossi, Businessman. This business grew to the point where he had influence over every aspect of Moto GP, and boy, hasn't he pushed that cart everywhere. Riders, manufacturers, tyre companies, sponsors have all felt the wrath of Rossi. Anyone dare challenge Rossi will be met by an army of yellow clones willing to take a bullet for their manufactured hero. Really piss him off & you could become the target of his well rehearsed after race antics which are worse than any D grade movie.



I still admire him for what he has acheived on the race track, I just don't respect the man he has become. His ........ apology last weekend is just another example of the type of man he really is.



People saying Stoner has lost a lot of fans with his comments to Rossi after the race. HA. Stoner has picked up a heap of fans by making the doctor look like a ......... I'm one of many that have vacated the Rossi Bandwagon & jumped on the Stoner rocket. No ........, just honesty & bravery.





Damn, where did all these well spoken arguments come from?

Frizzle, 33, and several other folks capable of coherent communication have joined the PS circus over the last few days.



Welcome!



Regarding the quoted effort, "Well put!"
toot.gif
 

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