This might happen eventually, after he finishes up the car racing career; which might be another 10 years or so into the future.
2025 Silly Season
- Thread starter mikesbytes
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I don't think Ducati shot themselves in the foot by any means. Pramac was only ever insistent on staying with Ducati if they could have gotten MM which as we know by this point had a snowball's chance in hell of ever actually happening. Ducati/Audi have wanted to downsize on customer teams, so I think this is a genuine benefit for them since they finally whittled the supply down to 4 bikes instead of 6 customer bikes.
Of course the rider situation didn't work out. I still think they should have put Martin in the factory team and given a GP25 to Gresini for MM. Enea was going to be gone one way or another IMO. Pramac going to Yamaha is an exceptionally good deal for them since they'll be getting factory spec bikes. I recognize they are going to take a hit as Yamaha works this whole thing out, but they have phenomenal stability now for almost the next decade and don't have to worry a bit about the 850cc era in terms of finding machinery for 2027.
But at the end of the day Gigi was able to get what he really wanted. Whether it works out or not is anyone's guess at this point. I do think Pecco and Martin together would have been a bad match for some reason. Still think Martin is too much of a hothead to be in an outfit like Ducati. Aprilia was the best destination for him I feel.
They were teammates in Moto3 I believe and had gotten along well, but things have moved on since then for sure.
I don’t think we’ll go back to the days of a wall in the middle of the box in any case, riders these days have too many PR obligations for that to happen.
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Martin believes his own hype now which is ironic since he hasn't actually won the championship just yet. Maybe he will ultimately get it done, but I've not got much faith in him to be consistent enough across the course of a season to do so. Pecco looks like he's dialed in, and Martin not so much. It's incredible they were once teammates. Amazing how much can change when these guys have this much on the line to ride in the premier class.
I can't see the wall ever happening again either. I don't think Marc much cares about who can see what as his strength is to go out there and race no matter what the circumstances are.
He comes from a blue collar background, so he’s always been a bit rough around the edges haha. But he does have talent, hopefully it will shine through at Aprilia.
As for the wall, the Gigi way is open data sharing, and I too think that neither Marquez nor Bagnaia will have a problem with that.
They don’t need to be BFFs and they probably won’t, but they’ll respect each other and that’s just fine.
Both of you please don't take me wrong, it's not disrepect or anything but I'm more impressed with the fact that the right way is IN the foot and not ON the foot. I thought "ON "would apply in the sentence since to shot yourself in the foot is an action taken by the upperside.. whatever, lol, I'm struggling to figuring the IN ON AT thing out.
So let’s speculate who the Pramac Yamaha riders will be.
Campinoti said a few things today that are noteworthy:
- He wants Pramac to go back to nurturing the next gen riders who will one day go to the factory team. Ties in nicely with taking over Yamaha’s Moto2 program
- They are interested in Diggia; which makes sense. Talented rider, still young; needs a bit of polishing
- He still has a soft spot for Iannone and said he will arrange a private Yamaha test; but agrees that the way back to MotoGP might be quite difficult
Given all of this, I would think Miller might not be a realistic choice; and he might go to Gresini as many suggest. I’m willing to make a wager that the second Pramac Yamaha seat will go to a Moto2 talent; possibly Sergio Garcia (Which would be fantastic).
Campinoti said a few things today that are noteworthy:
- He wants Pramac to go back to nurturing the next gen riders who will one day go to the factory team. Ties in nicely with taking over Yamaha’s Moto2 program
- They are interested in Diggia; which makes sense. Talented rider, still young; needs a bit of polishing
- He still has a soft spot for Iannone and said he will arrange a private Yamaha test; but agrees that the way back to MotoGP might be quite difficult
Given all of this, I would think Miller might not be a realistic choice; and he might go to Gresini as many suggest. I’m willing to make a wager that the second Pramac Yamaha seat will go to a Moto2 talent; possibly Sergio Garcia (Which would be fantastic).
Carlo Pernat isn’t someone who throws around words without meaning, and he made an interesting point in this interview. VR46 has not committed beyond 2026, and Rossi is currently racing a BMW.
www.gpone.com
MotoGP, Carlo Pernat: "The winners of the rider market are Marc Marquez and Dorna."
MotoGP: "Our world is becoming less professional, we need market windows. Ducati's decision has strengthened Aprilia and KTM. Dall'Igna is very honest intellectually, for Bastianini and Martin nothing will change."
www.gpone.com
I'm glad someone finally went on the record and stated the obvious:
MotoGP is a multi-billion dollar enterprise. Rider movements of this magnitude are not left to chance. This silly season (and many others I'm sure) is the product of the Frankenstein marketing machine within Dorna.
Ducati knew they had Marquez contained. Promoting him to the factory team and giving up their youth talent was not the logical strategy. Ducati traded their rider/team empire for something from Dorna (probably a big bag of cash). Asking Ciabatti to dismantle his creation was a waste of his abilities. He was promoted out of MotoGP where he could work his magic again.
The big question is why now? The introduction of the 850cc era, and it's supposed focus on rider ability, is the precarious moment for MotoGP. The riders are on 2-year contracts at most, so these movements will be expired by 2027. Is this to keep Liberty happy? Will the 850cc era begin early for "safety reasons"?
MotoGP is a multi-billion dollar enterprise. Rider movements of this magnitude are not left to chance. This silly season (and many others I'm sure) is the product of the Frankenstein marketing machine within Dorna.
Ducati knew they had Marquez contained. Promoting him to the factory team and giving up their youth talent was not the logical strategy. Ducati traded their rider/team empire for something from Dorna (probably a big bag of cash). Asking Ciabatti to dismantle his creation was a waste of his abilities. He was promoted out of MotoGP where he could work his magic again.
The big question is why now? The introduction of the 850cc era, and it's supposed focus on rider ability, is the precarious moment for MotoGP. The riders are on 2-year contracts at most, so these movements will be expired by 2027. Is this to keep Liberty happy? Will the 850cc era begin early for "safety reasons"?
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This is reminiscent of the Ducati escape clause Carmelo got Valentino to get him back into Yamaha for 2013.
The only thing I will say though is that relative to their younger talent, Marc is something far more special than anything their younger talent had to offer. I've said repeatedly that letting Enea Bastianini walk was not a big deal as he's really not getting a great deal out of the Desmosedici. But I will agree on the point that letting Jorge Martin walk was probably a mistake. However, MM is not just a generational talent, he's a once in a lifetime talent. So I think sometimes you've got to go with the most obvious solution.
I don't think it's so much a dismantling as it is that no one knew two years ago MM would even hit the open market. The idea that he would not be riding a Honda in 2024 was preposterous, especially in light of the contract he had with Honda. No one could have foreseen that Honda would actually agree to let him out of the deal a year early.
I don't see the 850cc era beginning early for safety reasons unless they want to figure out who has a bike possible of competing so as to rig the riders market for 2027. That's going to be an extremely difficult environment to get things right in since no one knows exactly who will build the best possible bike. I hate to say it, but 2027 could be a career killer for a lot of riders.
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Your probably correct grammar wise, however it is a slang statement and hence it is what it is. English is a horrible language, I have to keep training my wife in how to phrase things, such the challenge for those like her who speak it as a second language.
I’m assuming that leasing Ducati’s has got more expensive as they are the bike to have to get your sponsors on the podium. A 7 year deal means they are in it for the long term so they must see Yamaha has a path back to the top. Perhaps 850cc will be an advantage for an i4 as they can make the engine narrower, which could provide other options to just aero such as mass centralisation or an external flywheel(s) allowing for crank weight to be changed for different circuits
Simple in my case, I am an aging Luddite with poor typing skills and repeatedly type “on” instead of “in” when I type on my iPhone, happens when I type emails as well.
In the olden days when I only posted on a computer I had some renown for not making spelling errors on here.
Indeed. As JPS has said Carmelo has plenty of form on this, Valentino to Yamaha the first time, Valentino to Ducati, Valentino back to Yamaha. He was also involved in Stoner getting his first premier class ride with LCR, although I suspect wanting him an Australian rider on the grid didn’t extend to wanting that rider to beat Valentino.
The TV guys are now running the argument which I believe originated with Neil Hodgson, that the Ducati Corse sponsors didn’t want MM possibly winning the title on a bike sponsored by others, which seemed reasonable to me when I first heard it and imo as well as theirs had some influence, MM staying with Gresini on a GP25 next year would probably have sufficed for both Carmelo and MM himself. Sure getting out of the HRC contract and getting the Gresini ride this year in the first place may well have involved Dorna as well, reputedly not all involved with Ducati were happy about same.
In regard to Pramac and Martin, Campinoti (who gives every appearance of being something of a fool to me btw), has come out and said perhaps at least partly for self justification that he decided they didn’t have the full support of Ducati when the Ducati honchos appeared to cheer for Bastianini to beat Martin, to which one reply might be that they are all Italian. I guess if you see your role as developing riders for the factory team Martin is close to being the ultimate such product, although several other Pramac riders (Iannone, Petrucci, Miller and Bagnaia himself for instance) have progressed. Ducati also historically don’t like riders bargaining with them, as was previously the case with Dovi, and Martin basically demanding a factory ride publicly which would involve them sacking Bastianini, whom it was not unreasonable to sign to the factory team ahead of Martin at the time they signed him, probably didn’t endear him to Ducati. Even Bagnaia may have peeved them a little by holding out for more money. MM is of course very likely in a different position money-wise, but doesn’t seem to have done much bargaining with them, particularly if him refusing the Pramac ride came as a shock, and only ever asked for a factory Ducati at Gresini next season publicly as far as I am aware.
(EDIT. Most peculiar, the site appears to be preventing me from calling Campinoti an idi.t).
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I’m sure Dorna played a significant role in the silly season. Having all the talent and technology concentrated in one camp does not make for good TV, and TV rights are what puts food on the table at Dorna, IRTA and the teams.
Carmelo has said multiple times how he is “Unhappy” that we ended up with 8 Ducatis on the grid, but stopped short of legislating them out of existence, as that wouldn’t be a sporting decision.
Funny enough, the one move they didn’t play a part in (Márquez to Lenovo Ducati) became the great grid leveler of 2025.
Can’t complain at all.
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Alberto Puig?
Yamaha probably can’t attract the Wagyu beef of team bosses with their current form, but that doesn’t mean that they should settle for Beyond Meat…Alberto Puig?
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Alberto Puig?
I've been of the belief that part of HRC's problems lie with Puig. He's not been a good team principal at all and they have slowly gone backwards under his watch. Though not all of this can be blamed entirely on him as HRC themselves also are part of the problem. I just don't see how hiring a guy who chased off Dani Pedrosa to KTM could be considered a good hire. If Dani were still at HRC, I feel the RC213V would never have gotten to this point.
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Campinoti is a clown.
I don't begrudge him going to Yamaha at all as I thought it was the right move considering the terms of the deal.
But, what did he expect with the rider's market when MM got involved in it? Someone was always going to be left unhappy with how things turned out. Or in this case multiple people. Ducati still will have the VR46 pipeline which is probably more important than anything Pramac could have provided IMO. Plus they didn't waste any time signing Aldeguer since they obviously think more highly of him than I suppose Campinoti does if he's saying Ducati doesn't care about having a young riders project. I'm not sold on Aldeguer personally yet, but you can't reasonably make the argument they have somehow forgone young riders.
