2025 Silly Season

MichaelBolton said:

How much more expensive is to provide an additional current spec bike? Ducati are stupid if they're not willing to give one to Marc/Gresini. They swore off doing the 5 official current bikes after 2022, but that's because they gave one of them to Luca ....... Marini who isn't anywhere near the level of Marc. I understand them going for Martín for the official team, but not willing to entertain giving Gresini a factory spec bike and trying to force Marc into signing for Pramac is terrible optics for Ducati, specially if Marc ends up winning or contends until the end for the championship and then leaves to another European manufacturer. I don't get why act so friendly with Marc in Parc Ferme just to give him the cold shoulder like this. Just like we saw after 2015, a pissed off Marc is gonna be a threat... Ducati will decide to whom should he should be a threat towards...

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Marc can generate a lot is sponsorship income for the team he is in, I see being quite feasible for Gresini to cough up the extra money to lease a GP25 over using a refurbished GP24. It’s also possible that Ducati contract Marc directly reducing Gresini’s expenses and therefore enabling Gresini to have more money to pay for a GP25

MdubSTYLIE said:

Without knowing how good the gp25 will be, Marc on the gp24 next year would be a menace. I don't see him staying if he doesn't get a factory bike but he could easily win the title on the 24 unless the 25 is somehow superior to the 24 by more than the 22 and 24 are to the 23.

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Good point, there’s also the possibility of giving Marc a GP24 with a GP25 aero update

JPSLotus said:

I agree that Valentino would be petty enough to stick to using Ducatis for that sole reason. But I think perhaps the advantage here is that both of his riders do not seem sufficiently able to ride the GP23 anywhere near as consistently as they were able to ride the GP22, so Ducati may not want to waste bikes in the long-term.

I decided to put my tinfoil hat on and indulge in a conspiracy regarding what just happened with MM and Pramac. I think we all thought MM would go to Pramac, though I was skeptical of that being a likely destination for some reason. Didn't seem like a place MM would really have any interest in riding at if he were going to stay on a satellite team. But I thought what if his comments about riding a factory bike regardless of color were purposely aimed to prevent Pramac from jumping to Yamaha. After all having another 2 bikes on the grid and 2 more data streams would be of huge benefit to Yamaha and MM is canny enough to know this would hamstring Yamaha more than anything in the next 2 years. Plus now Pramac do not seem to have many decent options for riders at this point. I think they made the decision to remain with Ducati bikes solely on the belief it would guarantee them the services of MM, only to find out they seemingly had no real chance ever. His vehemence may have something to do with Fonsi Nieto.

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Marc could be playing hardball with Pramac to get the best deal. I haven’t heard the reason for rejecting Pramac other than it’s a satellite team

ApriliaRS250 said:

I have to say that the silly season is at least as exciting as the championship and that is since last year when MM left Honda. The easiest solution would be to just provide another gp25 to gresini, i dont see how that could cost more than providing a gp24. The more units you produce the lower the costs per unit and a gp24 cost money to make too

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It is possibly a GP25 then a GP26 though, and re-contracting Gresini as a satellite Ducati team given they only have a contract with Ducati for one more year at this point in time as has been said. It is hard to know how this would play into Ducati's long term plans, which might be to have VR46 as their major satellite team for all we know.

Ducati say that 'at the moment' there are no plans to provide 5 GP25 for the next year. Looks like they're forcing Marc's hand to make him sign for Pramac if he wants his up-to-date Ducati. Knowing Marc, he won't appreciate this kind of games. They're seriously risking losing him to KTM, which is something they might feel okay with now, but let's say Marc starts stringing wins from now on, then what? There's already a precedent when they didn't want to renew Lorenzo even for a reduced salary and then Jorge went on becoming the best performing Ducati afterwards. The big wigs love shooting themselves in the foot with taking contract decisions so early.

MichaelBolton said:

Ducati say that 'at the moment' there are no plans to provide 5 GP25 for the next year. Looks like they're forcing Marc's hand to make him sign for Pramac if he wants his up-to-date Ducati. Knowing Marc, he won't appreciate this kind of games. They're seriously risking losing him to KTM, which is something they might feel okay with now, but let's say Marc starts stringing wins from now on, then what? There's already a precedent when they didn't want to renew Lorenzo even for a reduced salary and then Jorge went on becoming the best performing Ducati afterwards. The big wigs love shooting themselves in the foot with taking contract decisions so early.

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Pramac are reported as saying they don’t need MM, he needs them, and that they have managed quite well for 22 years without him and will continue to do so, and there hence doesn’t seem to be much prospect of further negotiation in regard to next year between MM and Pramac, both having gone out of their way to preclude same, surprisingly on MM’s part, to me anyway. As guitta said, they seem to be at the stage of trading insults. I have become an MM fan, and as such trust he does have some sort of plan.

ApriliaRS250 said:

I have to say that the silly season is at least as exciting as the championship and that is since last year when MM left Honda. The easiest solution would be to just provide another gp25 to gresini, i dont see how that could cost more than providing a gp24. The more units you produce the lower the costs per unit and a gp24 cost money to make too

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Moreover, having Marc on the lastest update would be so much more interesting for developement.
It seems that Ducati's direction say the will not produce more than 4 GP25... If it's true, they are truly dumb in my opinion... BUT if Marc stay at Ducati he will have at least a GP24 which is quite better than the GP23 (laptimes talk for that). It's not sure that the gap between the GP25 and the GP24 will be as "wide" as the one between 24 and 23. To illustrate it, there was a huge gap between GP23 and the first designed GP22... but not such differencies between 22 and 21 to me.

My feeling right now is that Marc will ride a KTM the next season with 90% certainty. Ducati most likely never intended to sign Marc to the factory team and probably came up with the idea of using him as a bargaining chip to pressure Jorge into accepting a more modest contract to achieve his dream of wearing red leathers. The 'stupid' dictate of not providing 5 GP25s looks like a deliberate attempt to drive Marc out and also get back at Gresini which signed Marc unilaterally throwing a spanner in Ducati's plans in terms of team harmony and brand worth - people talk more about Marc than they talk about Ducati, if Marc wins, it's Marc what they talk, if Pecco or Jorge wins, it's Ducati what they talk.

Ducati at the same time play stupid with the Pramac thing, knowing well that Marc and Fonsi can't see each other face to face, but it gives a 'correct' impression publicly and towards their German bosses ("oh we tried everything but Marc wouldn't sign with Pramac, it's not our fault, look how ungrateful he is :^)"). Looks like Dall'igna is the only real supporter of Marc in there, as usual with the engineer who always wanted the best talent on the bike, but as for the other bigwigs, it's the usual Italian politicking with friendly smiles but prepared knives the moment one turns around. Marc will ride with a chip on his shoulder for the rest of the season and will become a headache for Ducati, unless they find a way to put Martín's 2023 Qatar tires (*wink wink*) on Marc's bike in key races.

mtf20 said:

Moreover, having Marc on the lastest update would be so much more interesting for developement.
It seems that Ducati's direction say the will not produce more than 4 GP25... If it's true, they are truly dumb in my opinion... BUT if Marc stay at Ducati he will have at least a GP24 which is quite better than the GP23 (laptimes talk for that). It's not sure that the gap between the GP25 and the GP24 will be as "wide" as the one between 24 and 23. To illustrate it, there was a huge gap between GP23 and the first designed GP22... but not such differencies between 22 and 21 to me.

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I guess to estimate what the difference will be to the GP25 we need to understand what the weaknesses are of the GP24

MichaelBolton said:

My feeling right now is that Marc will ride a KTM the next season with 90% certainty. Ducati most likely never intended to sign Marc to the factory team and probably came up with the idea of using him as a bargaining chip to pressure Jorge into accepting a more modest contract to achieve his dream of wearing red leathers. The 'stupid' dictate of not providing 5 GP25s looks like a deliberate attempt to drive Marc out and also get back at Gresini which signed Marc unilaterally throwing a spanner in Ducati's plans in terms of team harmony and brand worth - people talk more about Marc than they talk about Ducati, if Marc wins, it's Marc what they talk, if Pecco or Jorge wins, it's Ducati what they talk.

Ducati at the same time play stupid with the Pramac thing, knowing well that Marc and Fonsi can't see each other face to face, but it gives a 'correct' impression publicly and towards their German bosses ("oh we tried everything but Marc wouldn't sign with Pramac, it's not our fault, look how ungrateful he is :^)"). Looks like Dall'igna is the only real supporter of Marc in there, as usual with the engineer who always wanted the best talent on the bike, but as for the other bigwigs, it's the usual Italian politicking with friendly smiles but prepared knives the moment one turns around. Marc will ride with a chip on his shoulder for the rest of the season and will become a headache for Ducati, unless they find a way to put Martín's 2023 Qatar tires (*wink wink*) on Marc's bike in key races.

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Pramac offered Marc a 2 year contract but Marc only wanted to sign a 1 year contract

mikesbytes said:

Pramac offered Marc a 2 year contract but Marc only wanted to sign a 1 year contract

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And Marc probably declined it for the same reason he's declining the Pramac seat now, regardless of what he said publicly on why he accepted Gresini. Do you really believe they wouldn't accept to offer Marc a 1 year contract when they did it with Morbidelli?

We may never know what's truly behind the scenes, but I think Marc is probably starting to miss an apolitical approach to team dynamics like he had at Honda, if possible, without the need of sacrificing the bike's potential as well. Marc is not someone who likes to play into the hands of others as he's shown in the past. KTM might not be at Ducati's level right now but Acosta is showing that the bike can compete. The rookie's arrival might be the best blessing KTM could have in order to become a serious and formidable opponent for Ducati; it went from a so-so bike (in terms of external perception) to the one everyone wants to get on if they can't get a seat in a current spec Ducati. A Pedro-Marc duo would prove to be a terrible mistake for the Italian manufacturer, which still has the means to prevent its own undoing. A few years of winning makes everyone cocky, and this might be their 2003 Honda moment.

mikesbytes said:

Pramac offered Marc a 2 year contract but Marc only wanted to sign a 1 year contract

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Was that the case now as well as back then ?, I hadn’t thought about it previously but it wasn’t unreasonable to reject a 2 year contract previously given Pramac had made no commitment to Ducati beyond this year.

Perhaps one of our visitors before the season was correct, and Ducati were never going to back MM because he had insulted Valentino the Italian icon so grievously, by depriving him of an 8th title, which he didn’t actually do of course.

I do hope MM has a plan, because I don’t see imuch sign of same currently, and Bagnaia’s attitude this weekend certainly suggests he no longer sees any threat from MM on a Ducati. Pramac on a GP25 might still have been a reasonable option, I doubt they would sabotage their own rider.

Ducati had better hope Bagnaia and Martin really are generational talents without a superior bike, because I can see considerable opposition coming their way including from Bastianini.

Acosta signs multiyear contract with Factory KTM but how many years?

Yep
Seat selection is getting thinner for MM

Interesting, Guidotti says Marc was not available and that they'll continue with Binder for the factory KTM. I thought a GasGas seat could be in the works if the Binder contract couldn't be arranged but he makes it sound like Marc wasn't even interested. Maybe more mindgames. Silliest season.

It's official

warthog1 said:

Yep

Official: Pedro Acosta joins Red Bull KTM for 2025 MotoGP season

Rookie star Pedro Acosta signs new deal, switches from GASGAS to KTM for 2025.

www.crash.net

Seat selection is getting thinner for MM

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Whatever else I don't think they would ever have Acosta and MM on the same team.

michaelm said:

Whatever else I don't think they would ever have Acosta and MM on the same team.

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No, but he clearly isn't on a factory bike there now.
The no Primac stance has narrowed his options it seems to me. A bit painted into a corner.
Hopefully something decent eventuates.

warthog1 said:

No, but he clearly isn't on a factory bike there now.
The no Primac stance has narrowed his options it seems to me. A bit painted into a corner.
Hopefully something decent eventuates.

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Sure, my fear is that he has painted himself into a corner as well.

The rumour was him and Alex to Gasgas though, which may still be on. All KTM riders are reputedly signed to KTM and the 4 bikes are supposedly the same spec. Certainly not much sign Acosta has a bike inferior to those of the factory riders this year.

michaelm said:

Sure, my fear is that he has painted himself into a corner as well.

The rumour was him and Alex to Gasgas though, which may still be on. All KTM riders are reputedly signed to KTM and the 4 bikes are supposedly the same spec. Certainly not much sign Acosta has a bike inferior to those of the factory riders this year.

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Same bike perhaps. Same level of support, same staffing, same priority? Not so much I expect. Acosta is the future there, it was always going to happen I guess, but I don't see it being a good choice at GasGas, looking from the outside.

Possible options, and my opinion just based on current vibes/feel:

1) GasGas pairing with his brother with the promise of receiving same support as the factory team (somewhat likely)
2) KTM factory team in place of Binder (unlikely given latest statements by Guidotti)
3) Manages to convince the Ducati team to get a GP25 at Gresini (looking increasingly unlikely, but perhaps sponsors can sweeten the deal)
4) Gets the factory seat instead of Martín (looking unlikely given current rumors and Bagnaia's attitude as of late)
5) Bows down and signs with Pramac (only likely if he can force Fonsi out and maybe bring Carchedi with him)
6) Aprilia (I don't see it as likely I don't know why, Aprilia doesn't seem like an ambitious team despite having a good bike, plus they will only offer him only a modest contract like they do with everyone unless Maverick signs elsewhere)
7) Return to Honda (unlikely, as the last year sent him to depression and made him ponder about retirement plus they're not advancing as fast as Yamaha in coming back to relevance)
8) Sabbatical, tries winning the championship this season to keep his stock high for 2026 (I'd say unlikely but... you never know, if none of the other options please him...)
9) Gresini with outdated machinery (if he runs out of options and doesn't want to take a sabbatical/retire, but why would you choose that over let's say, Aprilia?)

He'll be in a better negotiating spot if he wins the Mugello race. I'm sure this is the time he'll be most motivated in the entire year.

So an interesting bit of news on the broadcast prior to the sprint race, Pramac do not have a deal for 2 factory GP25 bikes next season, and nothing has been signed. This leaves the door open for Gresini to get that GP25 next year for Marc, however they only have 1 year left on their deal with Ducati. So they really could not offer Marc more then a 1 year deal, and I am not sure he would go for that.