2025 Silly Season

synn said:

Some interesting names in the mix, including Dennis Foggia who has been rumored for a few weeks to step down to Moto3.

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Dang that has to hurt. Is this is 1st or 2nd year in Moto2? Give the kid a chance.

PRS717 said:

Dang that has to hurt. Is this is 1st or 2nd year in Moto2? Give the kid a chance.

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2nd year I believe.
As i understand it, it’s his preference. Sometimes people just can’t figure out a bigger class. Danny Kent comes to mind (Although he had plenty of other demons of his own).

PRS717 said:

Dang that has to hurt. Is this is 1st or 2nd year in Moto2? Give the kid a chance.

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Better than being out of World Championship racing altogether. Aleix Espargaro survived a return from MotoGP to Moto2.

AnnoyingTwit said:

It depends where you are. In the UK 43% of energy is now from renewables, and the proportion of electric cars continues to rise. For ICE motorcycles to continue, there needs to be a supply of fuel. While there are still plenty of cars, that supports petrol stations. As the number of cars starts to dwindle then the number of petrol stations will too. So, even though electric motorcycles are 'behind' electric cars because energy density is much more important, that doesn't mean that they will survive indefinitely.

But, like all even inevitable changes, things often take much longer than they should do. What we need is more global action on climate change, and other things, such as motorcycle racing, will follow.

Having said that, I have no problem with ICE engines running on renewable fuels. But, if that's not what the market becomes, then manufacturers aren't going to want to invest huge sums in it.

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Fossil fuels will definitely stay around for many decades to come, if we look beyond Europe and non-election year America no countries are seriously making the case to get rid of them soon.
While the EU has banned fossil-powered new ICEs (which is gonna be overturned anyway) there is no way to say how far the development of e-fuels will go in the next 11 years.
And since it won't be forbidden to power existing cars with fossil fuels from 2035, they will still be available at gas station. And with new car (ICE and EV) being less and less affordable, maybe in the distant future our streets will be full of 60 year old cars similar to Cuba.

AnnoyingTwit said:

Better than being out of World Championship racing altogether. Aleix Espargaro survived a return from MotoGP to Moto2.

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He's the only one I can think of who relegated from MotoGP to Moto2 and made it back to the top class.
It didn't work for Lüthi, Lowes, Barbera and Hernandez and it will not work for Darryn.

I don't think going back to Moto3 would not necessarily be a bad move for Foggia. Not everyone can be an Acosta. There's nothing bad about being a Moto3 lifer like Tatsu Suzuki.

JFM01 said:

Fossil fuels will definitely stay around for many decades to come, if we look beyond Europe and non-election year America no countries are seriously making the case to get rid of them soon.
While the EU has banned fossil-powered new ICEs (which is gonna be overturned anyway) there is no way to say how far the development of e-fuels will go in the next 11 years.
And since it won't be forbidden to power existing cars with fossil fuels from 2035, they will still be available at gas station. And with new car (ICE and EV) being less and less affordable, maybe in the distant future our streets will be full of 60 year old cars similar to Cuba.

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Bio fuel usage will probably depend on how each country feels about reaching CO2 targets so we could see some quite different fuel prices assuming that bio fuel is more expensive than fossil derived fuel. However a more significant threat to ICE powered motorcycles is new sales being banned in the high end "lifestyle" markets, such as Europe, which will knock out models with lower unit sales world wide. How this affects MotoGP we shall see, we can see that Dorna has been thinking forward having introduced MotoE and switching to bio fuel.

JFM01 said:

He's the only one I can think of who relegated from MotoGP to Moto2 and made it back to the top class.
It didn't work for Lüthi, Lowes, Barbera and Hernandez and it will not work for Darryn.

I don't think going back to Moto3 would not necessarily be a bad move for Foggia. Not everyone can be an Acosta. There's nothing bad about being a Moto3 lifer like Tatsu Suzuki.

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Is the mandatory age limit in Moto3 (used to be 28), scrapped?

Sennas_Caress said:

Is the mandatory age limit in Moto3 (used to be 28), scrapped?

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Nah but by the time a GP rider has reached that age they've usually been in the sport for 10+ years and everyone who only moved up due to the age limit has gone nowhere.

So Foggia has a few years left before he'll retire. Not sure he'd earned enough to buy that pad in Rome that he's been longing for.

Sennas_Caress said:

Is the mandatory age limit in Moto3 (used to be 28), scrapped?

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JFM01 said:

Nah but by the time a GP rider has reached that age they've usually been in the sport for 10+ years and everyone who only moved up due to the age limit has gone nowhere.

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Didn't McPhee age out and now is slumming it in WSS? Darryn Binder should have aged out but for some inexplicable reason, someone thought he should go to MotoGP.

PRS717 said:

Darryn Binder should have aged out but for some inexplicable reason, someone thought he should go to MotoGP.

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It's far from inexplicable.

He has a good manager, who inserted a clause in his contract, making him first choice for promotion. The folding of the Petronas teams helped him into MotoGP.

mikesbytes said:

Bio fuel usage will probably depend on how each country feels about reaching CO2 targets so we could see some quite different fuel prices assuming that bio fuel is more expensive than fossil derived fuel. However a more significant threat to ICE powered motorcycles is new sales being banned in the high end "lifestyle" markets, such as Europe, which will knock out models with lower unit sales world wide. How this affects MotoGP we shall see, we can see that Dorna has been thinking forward having introduced MotoE and switching to bio fuel.

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If I'm not mistaken the exception is the same for E-fuel powered motorcycles as for cars. And since motorcycles are used pretty much exclusively as fun-vehicles slightly higher fuel prices shouldn't have too much of an effect on sales imo.

As of right now, biofuels, unlike e-fuels won't be allowed post 2035.
I'm not too high on them though, I'd prefer they use agricultural fields to grow crops or livestock.

PRS717 said:

Darryn Binder should have aged out but for some inexplicable reason, someone thought he should go to MotoGP.

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Green power did, and paid for it.
I don’t mind Divebomb. While he’s not as talented as his brother, he’s perfectly serviceable as a rider and should do ok in Moto2 eventually. The MotoGP promotion was premature though.

But he did finish in the top 10 once, which not a lot of rookies can say.

Sennas_Caress said:

It's far from inexplicable.

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Not when viewed based on results. I guess it pays to have a good manager.

synn said:

Green power did, and paid for it.
I don’t mind Divebomb. While he’s not as talented as his brother, he’s perfectly serviceable as a rider and should do ok in Moto2 eventually. The MotoGP promotion was premature though.

But he did finish in the top 10 once, which not a lot of rookies can say.

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To be fair, his MotoGP season was perhaps his most impressive in GP racing so far when you consider who his teammate was and that his teammate wasn't a lot better.

And I thank him for his service as my argument against raising the age limit.

JFM01 said:

Maybe in the distant future our streets will be full of 60 year old cars similar to Cuba.

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I currently own 1984, 1986, 2002, and 2013 vehicles, they are very reliable and parts are plentiful, 60 years old here we come.

BTW, ICE development continues, in fact there are ICE engine packages being tested that produce zero emissions out the tailpipe, in one case the exhaust is cleaner than the air that was ingested for combustion.

In my humble opinion the near future is all about hybrids and hi-tech ICE.

At the risk of getting political:
Don't get me wrong, I love me some ICE. I have a CBR929RR street bike and a 2006 R6 track bike, and have no intention of parting with either. I'm slowly rebuilding an 1987 Toyota Supra as we speak. But I also daily a Tesla Model 3 Performance. I love and hate the Tesla. It's no work of art like the Honda or the Yamaha, and while it has more attitude than the Supra (I'm not sure anyone ever accused Toyota of having a soul), it's not an attitude I particularly like. But the drivetrain is incredible. It's quick.

Anyway, I suspect that in the relatively near future ICE will be viewed very much the way we view coal fired steam locomotives. Sure, there will always be people who think they are cool. A few may tinker with them here and there, the more eccentric might even operate them occasionally. But compared to modern transportation they will be loud, stinky, hopelessly slow and ridiculously impractical.

Legacy manufactures are dragging their feet, or claiming incredible breakthroughs or alternatives (hydrogen) because they've made a lot of money doing things the way they always have, and change is risky and expensive. They are hoping the EV thing goes away, and hoping you'll think it's going away too. It isn't. The infrastructure and the vehicles are getting better all the time. It's a little sad! I had good times with some old machines. But times change, and as hurricane Milton is making landfall in Florida, I say the writing is on the wall. ICE is finished. We had a lot of fun! We sure f'd things up.

And hence the debate about the future of MotoGP. Currently powerful lifestyle motorbike sales is in decline worldwide and they will be eventually banned in some major markets which will see the number of offerings reduced. At some point the relevance of MotoGP bikes to road sales will cease encouraging the Manufacturers to think differently about motorcycle racing

I'm not sure banned will be the option. Very expensive and difficult to use, so called nudging. Around my neck of the woods, it's already more expensive to buy, to insure, to park, to drive. And these are only the first steps.

Ducati moving into MotoE will only be the first step. MotoGP in general will try to hang on as long as possible, with eFuel, eTyre and recycled parts.
As long as the carbon footprint and emissions are reduced, year on year, it'll float for a while.

Better composites, better technologies overall, will be the end of ICE, and rightly so.
ICE made horses look slow, etc.

JFM01 said:

If I'm not mistaken the exception is the same for E-fuel powered motorcycles as for cars. And since motorcycles are used pretty much exclusively as fun-vehicles slightly higher fuel prices shouldn't have too much of an effect on sales imo.

As of right now, biofuels, unlike e-fuels won't be allowed post 2035.
I'm not too high on them though, I'd prefer they use agricultural fields to grow crops or livestock.

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The thing is, livestock is the major contributor to greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, burning fossil fuels is actually comparatively minor..