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JPSLotus said:
Noales was always going to be the most logical destination if the Ducati thing didn't work out once you factor in the state of where every team was headed. But stop acting like the KTM is a .... bike along the lines of the RC213V.
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What are you on about!? Where did I say that šŸ˜‚
 
Sennas_Caress said:
Why would a rider who needs to challenge for the title in the upcoming few seasons not want to ride the far best motorcycle on the grid?
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(I'm not suggesting this applies to Marquez, it seems quite the opposite)

Some riders in that situation may have fragile pride and may be over-confident in their abilities to make the difference. Rossi to Ducati covers part of that.
 
synn said:
Itā€™s a fine line between genius and hubris.
Move to Yamaha, genius.
Move to Ducati, hubris.

The motivations were exactly the same.
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Not quite which is where the hubris came in.

With Yamaha he correctly backed his talent without knowing what bike Yamaha would come up with but betting he could win on a Yamaha against one of the greatest bike designs of all time, the V5 990 Honda. I guess Yamaha did have some track record of success and it was not unexpected they could come up with something if they put full effort into a ground up design of a fit for purpose 990 MotoGP bike, but he went in sight unseen and very definitely proved to the Honda engineers he had something to do with the success of their bike.

The Ducati move was hubris, apart from being 8 years older he assumed if Casey Stoner could win on a Ducati he could win more, and that any latter day inconsistency was due to Casey being flaky or whatever. I also saw the famous Jeremy Burgess interview live on Australian TV, and while he didnā€™t really claim he could fix all issues with the bike immediately, he did say there were obvious things he and Valentino could fix in 60 seconds.

I didnā€™t have any real animus against Valentino back then, and said on this forum that if they couldnā€™t fix the bike then it was unfixable, but strongly doubted that they could.
 
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The motivation was to win on a different machine.
The results differ.

For all his faults, at least Valentino get it a shot on a different bike. Just as Stoner and Lorenzo.

One of the reasons I'm enamored by Acosta is because he is attempting something quite difficult, even when being a rookie, not chosing the easy way out by somehow jumping on a Ducati. Same with Quartararo. Kudos to both!
 
michaelm said:
Not quite which is where the hubris came in.

With Yamaha he correctly backed his talent without knowing what bike Yamaha would come up with but betting he could win on a Yamaha against one of the greatest bike designs of all time, the V5 990 Honda. I guess Yamaha did have some track record of success and it was not unexpected they could come up with something if they put full effort into a ground up design of a fit for purpose 990 MotoGP bike, but he went in sight unseen and very definitely proved to the Honda engineers he had something to do with the success of their bike.

The Ducati move was hubris, apart from being 8 years older he assumed if Casey Stoner could win on a Ducati he could win more, and that any latter day inconsistency was due to Casey being flaky or whatever. I also saw the famous Jeremy Burgess interview live on Australian TV, and while he didnā€™t really claim he could fix all issues with the bike immediately, he did say there were obvious things he and Valentino could fix in 60 seconds.

I didnā€™t have any real animus against Valentino back then, and said on this forum that if they couldnā€™t fix the bike then it was unfixable, but strongly doubted that they could.
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Some may not know this, but back when Rossi was getting tired with Honda, he was speaking to Ducati for the switch because whatā€™s more romantic than an Italian rider on an Italian bike? It was only Davide Brivioā€™s persistence (Even stalking Rossi during his vacation) that made him give Yamaha the time of the day. And in hindsight he thanked Brivio for that.

And then a few years later he did the same thing again.
 
synn said:
Some may not know this, but back when Rossi was getting tired with Honda, he was speaking to Ducati for the switch because whatā€™s more romantic than an Italian rider on an Italian bike? It was only Davide Brivioā€™s persistence (Even stalking Rossi during his vacation) that made him give Yamaha the time of the day. And in hindsight he thanked Brivio for that.

And then a few years later he did the same thing again.
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I believe it was not just Valentino with the eventual Ducati switch, but that Carmelo Ezpeleta also promoted that second switch, doubtless being of the view and correctly so imo that repeating the success of the Yamaha switch would massively increase interest in the sport.

Imo Valentino would very likely have been successful on a 990 Ducati which was competitive In the hands of quality conventional riders. Maybe the 800 Ducati would have been different had Valentino and JB been at Ducati when it was being developed, iirc Preziosi et al considered they couldnā€™t beat Valentino with a conventional bike, and hence designed a radical but fast bike and hoped someone would be able to ride the thing.
 
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synn said:
I am of the opinion that KTMs problems are more organizational and cultural, rather than technical.

Which is why some heads are rolling and more to go.
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Seems like many agree

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/n...ses-and-not-panic-amid-motogp-slump/10657679/

JPSLotus said:
He was never going to pramac. The Nieto factor negated that entirely I'm afraid.
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As with anything, there are workrounds. I agree he was unlikely to go to Pramac and gambled on Ducati wanting him more than vice versa, but remember all the articles about how Marc's sponsors clash with Ducati's? In the end it didn't matter one wit.
 
Sennas_Caress said:
The motivation was to win on a different machine.
The results differ.

For all his faults, at least Valentino get it a shot on a different bike. Just as Stoner and Lorenzo.

One of the reasons I'm enamored by Acosta is because he is attempting something quite difficult, even when being a rookie, not chosing the easy way out by somehow jumping on a Ducati. Same with Quartararo. Kudos to both!
Click to expand...
Was Quartararo actually ever considered for a Ducati? Does make me think, that if he had been considering it there'd have been some real drama re: which rider would get the factory seat. Fabio was (when on the actually competitive M1) Marc's best adversary. Much more so than Pecco. I still think on the right bike, he can be again. He's much less easily unsettled by mind games and more naturally talented and calculating.
 
Keshav said:
Was Quartararo actually ever considered for a Ducati? Does make me think, that if he had been considering it there'd have been some real drama re: which rider would get the factory seat. Fabio was (when on the actually competitive M1) Marc's best adversary. Much more so than Pecco. I still think on the right bike, he can be again. He's much less easily unsettled by mind games and more naturally talented and calculating.
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Sennas_Caress said:
Fabio is another of Aleix's mates. I believe that making a jump to the Aprilia was a real option for him.
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Fabio said on French TV, all manufacturers wanted him for 2025.
Aprilia was the most asking for him. I still believe this bikes as much more to show than their riders do (cf pure domination of Vinales in COTA, fantastic GP in Portimao... and nothing more since that).
If we trust him, even Ducati wanted him for a seat but it wasn't on a red one to my mind. Here's a real topic. I think Fabio was aware quite early about Pramac move to Yamaha (or the big chance to) so jump on a Ducati led by VR46 or Gresini couldn't be an option for him.
No informations about KTM, he could easily move for Tech3 for sure and probably eject Binder from a factory seat to my mind.
No need to talk about Honda...

I was nostalgic last week-end when I saw Fabio and Marc wheel-in-wheel during practices...
 
mtf20 said:
Fabio said on French TV, all manufacturers wanted him for 2025.
Aprilia was the most asking for him. I still believe this bikes as much more to show than their riders do (cf pure domination of Vinales in COTA, fantastic GP in Portimao... and nothing more since that).
If we trust him, even Ducati wanted him for a seat but it wasn't on a red one to my mind. Here's a real topic. I think Fabio was aware quite early about Pramac move to Yamaha (or the big chance to) so jump on a Ducati led by VR46 or Gresini couldn't be an option for him.
No informations about KTM, he could easily move for Tech3 for sure and probably eject Binder from a factory seat to my mind.
No need to talk about Honda...

I was nostalgic last week-end when I saw Fabio and Marc wheel-in-wheel during practices...
Click to expand...
According to the interview with Meregalli, Fabio was told about both Pramac/second team and the V4 development ideas, before he signed.
 
Sennas_Caress said:
According to the interview with Meregalli, Fabio was told about both Pramac/second team and the V4 development ideas, before he signed.
Click to expand...
They also listened to his demand of bringing in riders with experience with other bikes, starting with Rins.

He also wanted to have Arbolino in one of the Pramac seats, but I guess they appeased him by placing him in the Pramac Moto2 team (TBC).
 

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