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Interestingly enough all japanese street legal racing bikes have an inline four, if I remember correctly. Even the Ninja H2.

Switching to a V engine for Yamaha would make the IP wars even more pronounced.
 
Sennas_Caress said:
Interestingly enough all japanese street legal racing bikes have an inline four, if I remember correctly. Even the Ninja H2.

Switching to a V engine for Yamaha would make the IP wars even more pronounced.
Click to expand...

It raises the question of why inline engines are competitive in World Superbikes, but not in MotoGP.

EDIT: AI Overview says the following:

Inline-four engines are competitive in World Superbike because they allow for better handling than V4 engines. However, V4 engines have some advantages over inline-four engines, such as producing more horsepower and having a smoother power delivery
Click to expand...

And of course there are rev limits for individual bikes meant to equalise performance. Though, Ducati have a higher rev limit than any other bike.

I wonder if Yamaha will then eventually release a V4 superbike.
 
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Sennas_Caress said:
Interestingly enough all japanese street legal racing bikes have an inline four, if I remember correctly. Even the Ninja H2
Click to expand...
Honda has had a long history of V4s, with the VFR/ RVF series. Honda and Suzuki also built V twins to take on the Ducati 916 in WSBK.

Yamaha’s history of V4s is more sketchy.

All that said, the Japanese are capable of making any engine they want, just a question of whether they need to or not.

Yamaha got what, 23 years of service from the M1 inline4 motor? That’s pretty decent. Time to look towards a new concept.
 
JPSLotus said:
Donald Trump...I mean Valentino Rossi doubling down on every MM related grievance from 2015 in an article from Marca.

Valentino Rossi, más duro que nunca contra Marc Márquez: "Nunca nadie fue tan sucio"

Ni olvida ni perdona. Valentino Rossi coincidió con Marc Márquez en el GP de San Marino de MotoGP en Misano. Estaban pared con pared en los boxes del VR46 y el Gresini. Ni se habla
www.marca.com www.marca.com
Click to expand...

I had a quick look at the comments. Not very complimentary to VR. 🤣
Most are able to see through his crap and it is just getting more embarassing the longer he carries on with it.
 
JPSLotus said:
Donald Trump...I mean Valentino Rossi doubling down on every MM related grievance from 2015 in an article from Marca.

Valentino Rossi, más duro que nunca contra Marc Márquez: "Nunca nadie fue tan sucio"

Ni olvida ni perdona. Valentino Rossi coincidió con Marc Márquez en el GP de San Marino de MotoGP en Misano. Estaban pared con pared en los boxes del VR46 y el Gresini. Ni se habla
www.marca.com www.marca.com
Click to expand...
My honest take on this, fully admitting my bias to one side of the argument, is that no one on either side will ever manage to convince someone on the other side to switch positions. All we are left with are a whole bunch of unrelated parties arguing on the internet about something that happened 10 years ago.

If people don’t want Rossi to talk about 2015, then stop asking him about 2015. It’s not like he bought prime ad space in a newspaper and published his thoughts unsolicited. The media knows that every time they publish something about 2015, they will get endless amounts of clicks and comments. And people keep falling for it over and over again.

I myself, have more constructive uses for my time. Like speculating about the Yamaha V4. How about that eh?
 
AnnoyingTwit said:
It raises the question of why inline engines are competitive in World Superbikes, but not in MotoGP.

EDIT: AI Overview says the following:



And of course there are rev limits for individual bikes meant to equalise performance. Though, Ducati have a higher rev limit than any other bike.

I wonder if Yamaha will then eventually release a V4 superbike.
Click to expand...
Basically right.
Inline 4s - wide sweeping lines, more corner speed
V4s- Squared off corners, point and shoot.

This was the paradigm until aero changed everything. Now Quartararo squares off corners because the only thing he can do is attack with braking, and Ducatis carry more corner speed than others.
 
synn said:
My honest take on this, fully admitting my bias to one side of the argument, is that no one on either side will ever manage to convince someone on the other side to switch positions. All we are left with are a whole bunch of unrelated parties arguing on the internet about something that happened 10 years ago.

If people don’t want Rossi to talk about 2015, then stop asking him about 2015. It’s not like he bought prime ad space in a newspaper and published his thoughts unsolicited. The media knows that every time they publish something about 2015, they will get endless amounts of clicks and comments. And people keep falling for it over and over again.

I myself, have more constructive uses for my time. Like speculating about the Yamaha V4. How about that eh?
Click to expand...
I used google translate so I don’t know how accurate it is but it sounded like he went on a podcast to talk about Marquez and 2015.
 
synn said:
Basically right.
Inline 4s - wide sweeping lines, more corner speed
V4s- Squared off corners, point and shoot.

This was the paradigm until aero changed everything. Now Quartararo squares off corners because the only thing he can do is attack with braking, and Ducatis carry more corner speed than others.
Click to expand...
I remember during 2016/17, when the Honda was terrible at pointing and shooting, Marquez was carrying just as much if not more corner speed than the Yamaha.

Agree re aero though, doesn’t matter your layout if the aero is gluing you to do the ground.

ETA my first point is that generalisations may often be correct but when it’s prototype racing the standard rules don’t always apply. Ie v4 vs i4
 
Last edited:
synn said:
Honda has had a long history of V4s, with the VFR/ RVF series. Honda and Suzuki also built V twins to take on the Ducati 916 in WSBK.

Yamaha’s history of V4s is more sketchy.

All that said, the Japanese are capable of making any engine they want, just a question of whether they need to or not.

Yamaha got what, 23 years of service from the M1 inline4 motor? That’s pretty decent. Time to look towards a new concept.
Click to expand...
Yamaha might be the greatest company in the world though, I’m sure they will get it right at some stage. I do suspect though that GP/ prototype racing is more about the people you have employed (ie Gigi @ Ducati) rather than how many resources you can chuck at a project. Honda in its current state being an example.
I can’t remember his name but the guy who redesigned the m1 for 2004 being one of those guys that a team needs to be competitive in GP racing. One engineer who comes up with a genius or ingenious idea can have the rest of the grid playing catchup for year/s.
 
p4p1 said:
Yamaha might be the greatest company in the world though, I’m sure they will get it right at some stage. I do suspect though that GP/ prototype racing is more about the people you have employed (ie Gigi @ Ducati) rather than how many resources you can chuck at a project. Honda in its current state being an example.
I can’t remember his name but the guy who redesigned the m1 for 2004 being one of those guys that a team needs to be competitive in GP racing. One engineer who comes up with a genius or ingenious idea can have the rest of the grid playing catchup for year/s.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure this is still the case as much as it was. The production of MotoGP bikes are now much larger-scale operations. And, I think the chance that a single engineer makes a difference like that, lasting multiple years, is less than it was. The Aprillia ground-effects might have been an example of such in the past, but the other European manufacturers had the resources and connections to catch up quickly.

I'm not saying that a single engineer won't make a difference. But, I think it's less likely that there will be a development that takes multiple years for other teams to catch up with.
 
p4p1 said:
I used google translate so I don’t know how accurate it is but it sounded like he went on a podcast to talk about Marquez and 2015.
Click to expand...

synn said:
My honest take on this, fully admitting my bias to one side of the argument, is that no one on either side will ever manage to convince someone on the other side to switch positions. All we are left with are a whole bunch of unrelated parties arguing on the internet about something that happened 10 years ago.

If people don’t want Rossi to talk about 2015, then stop asking him about 2015. It’s not like he bought prime ad space in a newspaper and published his thoughts unsolicited. The media knows that every time they publish something about 2015, they will get endless amounts of clicks and comments. And people keep falling for it over and over again.

I myself, have more constructive uses for my time. Like speculating about the Yamaha V4. How about that eh?
Click to expand...
I greatly respect your takes on GP bike racing, and I am a Stoner tragic who defended him against all manner of things other people found inexcusable.

Perhaps however from the other side of the debate you can explain to me what Valentino’s gripe about Marquez in 2015 actually is, because Valentino never has. The thing which started it all, the Sepang press conference accusation that MM tanked a race he actually won to help Jorge Lorenzo, even though he actually deprived Jorge of 5 points by riding a ridiculous last lap to beat him, remains ludicrous by any criterion imo.

Otherwise there is no evidence of which I am aware that Valentino was other than the 4th fastest rider at Valencia 2015, and if he is correct that MM was faster than him at Sepang 2015 then Valentino was going to finish 4th rather than 3rd as he did after there contretemps, in so doing gaining 3 points on Lorenzo.
 
Last edited:
synn said:
My honest take on this, fully admitting my bias to one side of the argument, is that no one on either side will ever manage to convince someone on the other side to switch positions. All we are left with are a whole bunch of unrelated parties arguing on the internet about something that happened 10 years ago.

If people don’t want Rossi to talk about 2015, then stop asking him about 2015. It’s not like he bought prime ad space in a newspaper and published his thoughts unsolicited. The media knows that every time they publish something about 2015, they will get endless amounts of clicks and comments. And people keep falling for it over and over again.

I myself, have more constructive uses for my time. Like speculating about the Yamaha V4. How about that eh?
Click to expand...

Well I am biased to the other side of the argument, but it is what it is at this point.

I just don't know why he continues to rehash the whole thing now that it has been almost a decade after the fact. I don't see Marc rehashing anything which is really I think how it should have been for both parties, however I don't think Valentino is going to let this go ever.

Anyhow.

Yes, a Yamaha V4 would be rather interesting, but I think the issue facing them is getting it wrong. If they don't get it right for 2027....well that is going to be a rather large hole to dig out of. I still believe Ducati is going to destroy the field in 3 years time.
 
AnnoyingTwit said:
I'm not sure this is still the case as much as it was. The production of MotoGP bikes are now much larger-scale operations. And, I think the chance that a single engineer makes a difference like that, lasting multiple years, is less than it was. The Aprillia ground-effects might have been an example of such in the past, but the other European manufacturers had the resources and connections to catch up quickly.

I'm not saying that a single engineer won't make a difference. But, I think it's less likely that there will be a development that takes multiple years for other teams to catch up with.
Click to expand...
So a single engineer called Gigi hasn’t been the main driver for Ducati’s current dominance.?.
 
If Yamaha (and Honda) can develop an engine for 2025 and 2026, then is there a chance that they could have enough development for a shot at the title in 2026? I mean, they are a second and a bit behind, but it looks as if the additional development they can do might have a chance of catching up that.
michaelm said:
You don’t think a single engineer called Gigi hasn’t been the main driver for Ducati’s current dominance.
Click to expand...

He's a team leader, not an engineer. (At least, not an engineer now). That's what is more important for MotoGP teams now - having someone to hire the right people and manage the team well. That's very different from a single engineer having a technical idea that gives years of dominance. EDIT: To be clearer: I'm aware of his engineering background (thesis on a carbon chassis for a group c racer), but that's not the role he is in now. His role now is IMHO much more important.

I've said before that I believe Ducati are most likely to dominate in 2027 - because they have built the best racing and engineering team. That's very different from the olden days where a single engineer would have a technical idea that would allow them to dominate for years.
 
Last edited:
synn said:
If people don’t want Rossi to talk about 2015, then stop asking him about 2015. It’s not like he bought prime ad space in a newspaper and published his thoughts unsolicited. The media knows that every time they publish something about 2015, they will get endless amounts of clicks and comments. And people keep falling for it over and over again.
Click to expand...
It's easy to shut down those questions but he's not interested in that. He was never shy about using the press to attack his rivals. Might I add, he feels threatened now given how Marc is performing and gelling with the Ducati. In his mind, he's still competing with Marc, trying to stop him from winning at all costs.
 
synn said:
My honest take on this, fully admitting my bias to one side of the argument, is that no one on either side will ever manage to convince someone on the other side to switch positions. All we are left with are a whole bunch of unrelated parties arguing on the internet about something that happened 10 years ago.

If people don’t want Rossi to talk about 2015, then stop asking him about 2015. It’s not like he bought prime ad space in a newspaper and published his thoughts unsolicited. The media knows that every time they publish something about 2015, they will get endless amounts of clicks and comments. And people keep falling for it over and over again.

I myself, have more constructive uses for my time. Like speculating about the Yamaha V4. How about that eh?
Click to expand...

People still talk about OJ Simpson murdering his wife but you don't hear OJ talking about murdering his wife very often.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
People still talk about OJ Simpson murdering his wife but you don't hear OJ talking about murdering his wife very often.
Click to expand...
Too far even for me. He tried to run him off the track is all as far as I am concerned.

I have to say the GPOne thing from today is close to deranged imo though. This is what happens when you are a mega celebrity living in a bubble, and he seems to have continued to live in the same bubble 9 years on from 2015. My gripe against him is not really to do with MM who can look after himself, but for his involvement in the persecution of other opponents, and if he is still stung in his retirement by the one that got away despite his absolutely undeniable greatness I perhaps see karma in operation.
 
Last edited:
synn said:
My honest take on this, fully admitting my bias to one side of the argument, is that no one on either side will ever manage to convince someone on the other side to switch positions. All we are left with are a whole bunch of unrelated parties arguing on the internet about something that happened 10 years ago.

If people don’t want Rossi to talk about 2015, then stop asking him about 2015. It’s not like he bought prime ad space in a newspaper and published his thoughts unsolicited. The media knows that every time they publish something about 2015, they will get endless amounts of clicks and comments. And people keep falling for it over and over again.

I myself, have more constructive uses for my time. Like speculating about the Yamaha V4. How about that eh?
Click to expand...
Would just like to say, how much I appreciate the participation of a level-headed Rossi supporter on the forum. We all know you guys are out there, but (and I may be forgetting some) guys like you who are serious followers of the sport and not wing-nut Rossi cult followers have been far and few between on this forum since our friends Curve and Yamaka 46 stopped coming around. Some years back I met a really cool Rossi guy from the Channel Islands at the Assen race and he was totally great to hang out with and we're still friends years later. Cheers!
 
I'm trying to stay out of the Valentino discussion. But, I never thought his complaints were all that justified given what I saw between VR and Sete Gibernau. Gibernau later rued that the physicality of that rivalry changed MotoGP for the worse. In terms of VR, I did think - a little bit at least - that what goes around comes around.

Though, in those days when he was Yamaha.underdog, I was supporting Rossi.
 

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