2025 Silly Season

mikesbytes · Aug 23, 2024

There wasn't a huge amount of difference between Raul and Remy, I suspect the big difference was in management and perhaps the ability to bring sponsorship in. Remy having a new manager has probably evened things up but its after the event. Remy rejecting the Yamaha MotoGP role is interesting, if he wanted to get back to MotoGP that was likely his only option, so his focus now is on winning WSBK, along with the other 20 or so who are focused on winning WSBK

michaelm · Aug 23, 2024

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mikesbytes said:
There wasn't a huge amount of difference between Raul and Remy, I suspect the big difference was in management and perhaps the ability to bring sponsorship in. Remy having a new manager has probably evened things up but it’s after the event. Remy rejecting the Yamaha MotoGP role is interesting, if he wanted to get back to MotoGP that was likely his only option, so his focus now is on winning WSBK, along with the other 20 or so who are focused on winning WSBK

He is not all that young at 26, and may see his future in WSBK rather than another one and done on an uncompetitive bike in the premier class, particularly since he seems to have needed at least a year to acclimate to a new class or new bike.

michaelm · Aug 24, 2024

#22 said:
I don't care for Rossi, but what he has done for Italian riders with his VR46 Academy is nothing short of sensational.

I guess it is a reason for VR 46 currently being with Ducati in the premier class, his proteges get to ride a Ducati rather than flounder on a latter day Yamaha.

synn · Aug 24, 2024

warthog1 said:
Sorry then Havey, you were correct.

Raul’s entire family doesn’t deserve a place in the paddock.

When KTM told Raul he had to move up to MotoGP, he threw a tantrum as we all know. KTM offered his brother Adrian a plum Moto3 seat which he did nothing to deserve, just to placate Raul.

A year later, Raul was kicked out of KTM in unceremonious fashion and Adrian’s seat was taken away too. This resulted in a lot of b!tching, primarily on Spanish media from the Fernandez family; which culminated in Adrian doing some very unsportsmanlike things to hand the 2023 Moto3 championship to his teammate Masia (Honda) over Sasaki (Husqvarna-KTM).

With the father pouring oil into the fire the whole time.

PRS717 · Aug 24, 2024

synn said:
which culminated in Adrian doing some very unsportsmanlike things to hand the 2023 Moto3 championship to his teammate Masia (Honda) over Sasaki (Husqvarna-KTM).

When I watched that Moto3 Race I did not know Adrian was Raul's brother. I thought it was just a teammate helping a teammate but your post makes me understand why what Adrian did was so egregious and to me, so over the top. I'm not really a fan of Masia and was pulling for Sasaki.

JFM01 · Aug 24, 2024

warthog1 said:
Wow you have been following a while!
Got a few years on me. I'm 55 and only been following since the 80s.
Yeah the memory doesn't improve with age. Noticing that too. I have never been good at people's names. I am terrible now

I'm 22 and have been following since the 2010 season.
And already I'm looking at the results from GP's that were just like 7-10 years ago and thinking "Wait, that guy once raced in the world championship?!?"

warthog1 · Aug 24, 2024

synn said:
Raul’s entire family doesn’t deserve a place in the paddock.

When KTM told Raul he had to move up to MotoGP, he threw a tantrum as we all know. KTM offered his brother Adrian a plum Moto3 seat which he did nothing to deserve, just to placate Raul.

A year later, Raul was kicked out of KTM in unceremonious fashion and Adrian’s seat was taken away too. This resulted in a lot of b!tching, primarily on Spanish media from the Fernandez family; which culminated in Adrian doing some very unsportsmanlike things to hand the 2023 Moto3 championship to his teammate Masia (Honda) over Sasaki (Husqvarna-KTM).

With the father pouring oil into the fire the whole time.

They sound like a bunch of r soles.

Havey · Aug 24, 2024

And just for the record, Augusto Fernandez is not related to them.

michaelm · Aug 24, 2024

Havey said:
And just for the record, Augusto Fernandez is not related to them.

He is yet another well performed moto 2 rider, the 2022 title winner in fact, who has failed to prosper with KTM in the premier class however.

Given even Acosta is now beginning to struggle, I wonder how much talent a rider needs to be competitive on a premier class KTM ?. I fear for Bastianini.

JPSLotus · Aug 25, 2024

michaelm said:
He is yet another well performed moto 2 rider, the 2022 title winner in fact, who has failed to prosper with KTM in the premier class however.

Given even Acosta is now beginning to struggle, I wonder how much talent a rider needs to be competitive on a premier class KTM ?. I fear for Bastianini.

I think the fact that KTM was of no serious consideration to MM in spite of the Red Bull sponsorship speaks volumes about where he thought that project was currently at if Aprilia was the backup plan.

JFM01 · Aug 25, 2024

I think it's understandable Raul got another chance after 2022 while Remy didn't.
It took Remy quite a few years to get going in Moto2 while Raul was a championship contender immediately. IIRC, other MotoGP teams were also courting Raul so KTM moved him up.
I was afraid he might have been rushed back then and looking back another year in Moto2 definitely wouldn't have hurt him.

michaelm · Aug 25, 2024

JFM01 said:
I think it's understandable Raul got another chance after 2022 while Remy didn't.
It took Remy quite a few years to get going in Moto2 while Raul was a championship contender immediately. IIRC, other MotoGP teams were also courting Raul so KTM moved him up.
I was afraid he might have been rushed back then and looking back another year in Moto2 definitely wouldn't have hurt him.

I agree, Remy has taken years to get going and is older anyway.

Raul actually wanted to stay in moto 2 another year iirc and was told he had to go to tech 3. As I have said with Acosta starting to struggle that is 3 recent moto 2 tireless and a runner up who was likely more talented than the moto 2 title winner in 2021, with only Acosta who many/most consider a generational talent sticking for more than a year. I don’t think Pit Bierer has much justification for arrogance.

synn · Aug 25, 2024

michaelm said:
I agree, Remy has taken years to get going and is older anyway.

He came up from a. Different path, had to learn new tracks, new paddock, prototype chassis etc the hard way. Guy even moved to Barcelona and learned Spanish and Catalan.
Raul came up through the MotoGP feeder system. Apples and oranges.

michaelm · Aug 25, 2024

synn said:
He came up from a. Different path, had to learn new tracks, new paddock, prototype chassis etc the hard way. Guy even moved to Barcelona and learned Spanish and Catalan.
Raul came up through the MotoGP feeder system. Apples and oranges.

I am far more a Remy fan than a Raul fan, started following the sport because of his father, and was certainly going for him over Raul for the 2021 moto 2 title.

I acknowledge reality though, and have said myself previously that being a couple of years older and taking a while to get going on a new bike each time hasn’t been helpful to Remy’s career. If it was just him perhaps it could be considered factors intrinsic to him contributed to his demise in the premier class, but the bottom line and my main point is that whatever your pathway to the premier class the final common pathway for at least 3 very well performed moto 2 riders including 2 champions is that a KTM premier class ride is likely to screw your career. A 4th rider and 3rd moto 2 title winner of unquestioned talent bids fair to waste 2 years of his career with KTM as well, although I am sure he will remain in great demand for other more competent teams.

Havey · Aug 25, 2024

Yes I saw it that way as well. As soon as they got away from Ajo's guidance, and into Herves they just died,

warthog1 · Aug 25, 2024

It has changed from the 500cc days then. Doohan, Rainey, Schwantz came up off a different system with bikes moving and sliding underneath them. New territory, new tracks, new bikes. A season or two and they just rode away from the rest. It was pretty damn cool to watch.
European riders have definitely caught and passed the US and Aussies now. Nobody has been able to slide both ends as well as MM that I have seen, but yes different tyres and bikes. Time has moved on. I do miss watching the bike movement though

Thankyou so much aero and ride height ..... Yes it makes them get around the track faster but it largely removes the most sublime element to watch, that is the bike movement into, through and out of the corners.

Sennas_Caress · Aug 25, 2024

Havey said:
Yes I saw it that way as well. As soon as they got away from Ajo's guidance, and into Herves they just died,

That is more than unfair to Hervé. Not thriving at Tech3 had little to do with him.

Holgado is at the top end of his championship, Roulstone also doing well.
Last season, Augusto Fernandez was scoring points on a regular basis.
He helped with Öncü's development, same with Sasaki, and so forth...

synn · Aug 25, 2024

Sennas_Caress said:
That is more than unfair to Hervé. Not thriving at Tech3 had little to do with him.

Holgado is at the top end of his championship, Roulstone also doing well.
Last season, Augusto Fernandez was scoring points on a regular basis.
He helped with Öncü's development, same with Sasaki, and so forth...

Poncharal, Coulon and the rest of the Tech3 team have an outstanding record of nurturing rookies as you said.

Also keep in mind that Remy used to ride for the Tech3 Moto2 team in the past and was generally happy there, and his lack of results can be chalked up to the uncompetitive Mistral chassis.

As I mentioned earlier, I chalk the bombing of both rookies up to KTM’s talent management, which was absolute shyte starting from Bradley Smith, all the way to their multiple race winner Miguel Oliveira and shows no signs of slowing down.

michaelm · Aug 26, 2024

synn said:
Poncharal, Coulon and the rest of the Tech3 team have an outstanding record of nurturing rookies as you said.

Also keep in mind that Remy used to ride for the Tech3 Moto2 team in the past and was generally happy there, and his lack of results can be chalked up to the uncompetitive Mistral chassis.

As I mentioned earlier, I chalk the bombing of both rookies up to KTM’s talent management, which was absolute shyte starting from Bradley Smith, all the way to their multiple race winner Miguel Oliveira and shows no signs of slowing down.

Yes, that was actually my point as well. I am blaming KTM and not Herve myself, partly as a result of previous discussion with you.

synn · Aug 26, 2024

michaelm said:
Yes, that was actually my point as well. I am blaming KTM and not Herve myself, partly as a result of previous discussion with you.

It’s a sad theme really.
KTM ruthlessly invests in every sport they enter and eventually becomes successful, but they haven’t yet figured out that the biggest investment they need to make is in people, and I don’t just mean monetarily.

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