2025 Silly Season

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Nothing like a Rossi quote to rile the hormones up 😂

He didn’t say anything that others haven’t said already. It’s a matter of fact that Ducati corse under Ciabatti had a youth over experience policy- There were even rumors of Ducati making a Moto3 machine to have full control over the talent pipeline like KTM does- which apparently isn’t Grasilli’s top priority.

Whether it works out for them is for time to decide, but it is also a matter of fact that 3 of the young talents Ducati nurtured through their development pipeline (They even fought hard to free Martin from the clutches of KTM which included a payment to release him from the contract) have left for pastures anew; and potentially sowing some unrest in what was until now a cordial environment within the Lenovo box.

Then again, Ducati has a long history of pissing off almost every top talent who has ridden for them; so this is hardly surprising.

I mean, hats off the M. Marquez for landing the deal of the decade for himself; but Rossi’s point on this matter has been voiced by much more neutral voices in the industry and is nothing new IMO.
 
Nonsense. VR continues to operate on a false premise, that MM did him wrong, when Valentino is the one who ran him off the track at Sepang. If Valentino is correct about MM’s potential pace at that Sepang race then he wasn’t in the 3 fastest riders in the last 3 races of the 2015 season, as his lap times also indicated, and hardly MM’s doing.

I would like to know which were the several incidents to which Crash referred, a rhetorical question of course, Crash being Crash. There is one incident of which I am aware, the time MM took VR out in an overtaking attempt in 2016 or 2017, for which he admitted fault and apologised, although VR chose to dispute the place when MM had caught up 4 seconds on him. MM according to his crew chief or manager had a similar view about Argentina 2015, which again imo was a futile contest for a position he had no chance of keeping having been caught up by 4 seconds himself on that occasion.

At the moment the guy Ducati perhaps should have chosen over MM looks like Bastianini to me, certainly while Bezzecchi might well have warranted consideration last year there is no way Ducati should have chosen him for 2025 on his 2024 form. Martin gave Ducati an ultimatum, not the other way around, he could have stayed at Pramac on a GP 25, and MM would have stayed at Gresini on a GP 25.

I am afraid Valentino can’t always have absolutely everything he wants. His team now has Pramac’s status and one of his protégés has a Ducati contract and a GP 25 ride next year for said team, I can’t see that he has much to complain about, and is simply again demonstrating his obsession with/bitterness concerning MM imo. I don’t recall any youth policy at Yamaha for the last several years of his time with the Yamaha factory team, and Ben Spies whom he displaced despite little in the way of performances at Ducati was considerably younger than him as I recall. Valentino was also opposed to the signing of Lorenzo in the first place as I also tecall.
I read this in grumpy old man voice, and loved the rant. Thanks MM
 
I
Nonsense. VR continues to operate on a false premise, that MM did him wrong, when Valentino is the one who ran him off the track at Sepang. If Valentino is correct about n MM’s potential pace at that Sepang race then he wasn’t in the 3 fastest riders in the last 3 races of the 2015 season, as his lap times also indicated, and hardly MM’s doing.

I would like to know which were the several incidents to which Crash referred, a rhetorical question of course, Crash being Crash. There is one incident of which I am aware, the time MM took VR out in an overtaking attempt in 2016 or 2017, for which he admitted fault and apologised, although VR chose to dispute the place when MM had caught up 4 seconds on him. MM according to his crew chief or manager had a similar view about Argentina 2015, which again imo was a futile contest for a position he had no chance of keeping having been caught up by 4 seconds himself on that occasion.

At the moment the guy Ducati perhaps should have chosen over MM looks like Bastianini to me, certainly while Bezzecchi might well have warranted consideration last year there is no way Ducati should have chosen him for 2025 on his 2024 form. Martin gave Ducati an ultimatum, not the other way around, he could have stayed at Pramac on a GP 25, and MM would have stayed at Gresini on a GP 25.

I am afraid Valentino can’t always have absolutely everything he wants. His team now has Pramac’s status and one of his protégés has a Ducati contract and a GP 25 ride next year for said team, I can’t see that he has much to complain about, and is simply again demonstrating his obsession with/bitterness concerning MM imo. I don’t recall any youth policy at Yamaha for the last several years of his time with the Yamaha factory team, and Ben Spies whom he displaced despite little in the way of performances at Ducati was considerably younger than him as I recall. Valentino was also opposed to the signing of as I also tecall.
as I also recall.
I read this in grumpy old man voice, and loved the rant. Thanks MM
To paraphrase what Alan Jones once said to Evan Green, which is admittedly revealing in regard to my age, I am only grumpy with those who make me so. If Valentino who is very definitely younger than me is going to continue his grumpy old man schtick I see no reason to refrain myself.
 
Nothing like a Rossi quote to rile the hormones up 😂

He didn’t say anything that others haven’t said already. It’s a matter of fact that Ducati corse under Ciabatti had a youth over experience policy- There were even rumors of Ducati making a Moto3 machine to have full control over the talent pipeline like KTM does- which apparently isn’t Grasilli’s top priority.

Whether it works out for them is for time to decide, but it is also a matter of fact that 3 of the young talents Ducati nurtured through their development pipeline (They even fought hard to free Martin from the clutches of KTM which included a payment to release him from the contract) have left for pastures anew; and potentially sowing some unrest in what was until now a cordial environment within the Lenovo box.

Then again, Ducati has a long history of pissing off almost every top talent who has ridden for them; so this is hardly surprising.

I mean, hats off the M. Marquez for landing the deal of the decade for himself; but Rossi’s point on this matter has been voiced by much more neutral voices in the industry and is nothing new IMO.
More neutral parties, and indeed pretty much anyone other than Valentino, are entitled to their opinions in my own opinion. I can’t think of anyone who would approach being as hypocritical as he is in having such an opinion.

As I said in the post which you possibly didn’t read Valentino didn’t want Yamaha to sign Lorenzo, returned to Yamaha on the basis of being correctly considered one of the greatest riders of all time with no performances to speak of over the previous 2 years, displacing a younger rider, then stayed on a factory Yamaha seat when it was probably the best bike for much of that time into his late 30s. MM, also one of the greatest riders of all time, at least went to the lowliest Ducati satellite team and has performed well there, enough to impress Gigi it would appear, and Gigi is likely to be particularly well informed .

My other objection was to the contention that Valentino was just trying to look after his riders. How were any of them screwed by Ducati ?, unless MM is likely to be Bagnaia’s strongest opponent among the 3 riders being considered, rather a good reason to sign him I would have thought, although not Valentino’s own preference during his career of course. Morbidelli currently has a GP24 ride he probably didn’t deserve. Bezzecchi could be on a Ducati contract riding a GP 24 now but rejected same, and his performances this year on the same bike as MM have hardly warranted a place on the factory team next season. Digi has a Ducati contract to ride a GP 25 next year, and rightly so of course imo.

Bottom line as someone less irked by Valentino than I am these days posted in that one available seat was always going to result in 2 of 3 riders being unhappy. I would add that MM is also not the only one of the 3 to reject a GP25 ride with Pramac.
 
Last edited:
As I said in the post which you possibly didn’t read
I did read that post and I am fully familiar with the events of the past mentioned therein, but the point of contention is not whether Marquez deserves the seat (He arguably does) or whether Yamaha has a youth over experience policy (They didn’t and never claimed to have one); but whether Ducati has changed their rider pipeline strategy compared to the past- which they have.

Racing is at the end of the day a business and Ducati has invested in the 3 talents in question; and the return on investment will now go to the competition. Which is the point Rossi was making, and the same point several others made after the recent events. Rossi obviously has a bias and will side with his academy riders in this instance, but that doesn’t completely invalidate the point.

An argument can be made that Ducati projects a higher RoI with Marquez, which would be fair. As I said, time will be the judge of that.
 
It occurs, that nobody has speculated about Pecco’s preference for a teammate. Not sure how much that would actually influence the brass, but it might be a factor, in that he likely views the elder Marquez (and elder by one more season next year) as being a less challenging teammate to beat, which would make for a less tense garage. A teammate who is viewed as having less championship potential, would have less influence on development of the bike, especially as Marquez has only had one year riding a Ducati. Additionally - an invitation to Marquez to the factory team, means Pecco’s strongest contender will go to a lesser team. The bosses at Ducati, may well have calculated the same.
 
It occurs, that nobody has speculated about Pecco’s preference for a teammate. Not sure how much that would actually influence the brass, but it might be a factor, in that he likely views the elder Marquez (and elder by one more season next year) as being a less challenging teammate to beat, which would make for a less tense garage. A teammate who is viewed as having less championship potential, would have less influence on development of the bike, especially as Marquez has only had one year riding a Ducati. Additionally - an invitation to Marquez to the factory team, means Pecco’s strongest contender will go to a lesser team. The bosses at Ducati, may well have calculated the same.
Pecco has said he wanted Bastianini, and before that, Miller.

On the surface, he seems to get along with teammates he beats on a regular basis.
 
Bottom line 3 riders can't have the same spot, it didn't matter what decision Ducati made it was going to wrong 2 riders. For Martin to win on the Aprilia the bike is going to have to be a lot more consistent than this year, ditto for Bastainini on the KTM perhaps more so for Bastainini as he is in a satellite team.

What's left to sign?
VR46 - we are assuming Morbidelli
Gresini - already taken if VR46 signs Morbidelli
Pramac - has Oliveria actually signed? 2nd bike is a question, probably a Moto2 rider
Trackhouse - Raul has signed? who for Oliveria's bike?
LCR - who to take Naka's bike?
I can still remember a time when a rider was signed to make the difference on a bike.
I also accept that this doesn’t happen now with all the ride height, aero and the tyre pressure ........ we get served nowadays but I really think that Martin is going to make the difference on the Aprilia next year. I only regret that Enea is not joining him.
 
I can still remember a time when a rider was signed to make the difference on a bike.
I also accept that this doesn’t happen now with all the ride height, aero and the tyre pressure ........ we get served nowadays but I really think that Martin is going to make the difference on the Aprilia next year. I only regret that Enea is not joining him.
I think he will do some great things on the Aprilia too.

The only concern I have is that according to Simon Crafar, Martin isn’t a very descriptive rider when it comes to feedback. He’s more of a “Feel” guy than someone like Marini or Dovizioso who give their crews a clear direction.

That works fine in a factory with 8 bikes and plenty of data, but could be a challenge at Aprilia. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
 
Digi has a Ducati contract to ride a GP 25 next year, and rightly so of course imo.
I think he is doing great this year, that he got the 2025 deal because someone believes his best is yet to come. If he has a great 2025 on the GP25 I'm thinking he could end up on one of the two factory team bikes at some point afterwards.
 
I think he is doing great this year, that he got the 2025 deal because someone believes his best is yet to come. If he has a great 2025 on the GP25 I'm thinking he could end up on one of the two factory team bikes at some point afterwards.

And to think the MotoGP door was about to hit him in his arse on his way out. Obviously Digi has had this in him all along so why did it take him almost being out of the paddock to turn it around or is this not a fair question?
 
It occurs, that nobody has speculated about Pecco’s preference for a teammate. Not sure how much that would actually influence the brass, but it might be a factor, in that he likely views the elder Marquez (and elder by one more season next year) as being a less challenging teammate to beat, which would make for a less tense garage. A teammate who is viewed as having less championship potential, would have less influence on development of the bike, especially as Marquez has only had one year riding a Ducati. Additionally - an invitation to Marquez to the factory team, means Pecco’s strongest contender will go to a lesser team. The bosses at Ducati, may well have calculated the same.
If Pecco aspires to be seen as the greatest of all time then winning a world championship on equal footing with Marc would contribute greatly to that informal title. Not suggesting hat Pecco has thought about that
 
And to think the MotoGP door was about to hit him in his arse on his way out. Obviously Digi has had this in him all along so why did it take him almost being out of the paddock to turn it around or is this not a fair question?
Digi probably just needed time to adapt. It's the problem of so many talented riders, so few seats. Also the nature of prototype racing. I figure at any given time there's a whole grid's worth of riders who are good enough to be in MotoGP, but can't find a ride. Not future champions, but people who wouldn't embarrass themselves given a few test days and a few weekends to adapt. Even within the field, how many riders get a current-year bike, or full factory support, or get to ride the best bike? Most riders do not get the chance or the support to show their full potential. Frustrating when others seem to coast for years on the strength of past potential and connections (cough Morbidelli cough). So it goes.
 
Digi probably just needed time to adapt. It's the problem of so many talented riders, so few seats. Also the nature of prototype racing. I figure at any given time there's a whole grid's worth of riders who are good enough to be in MotoGP, but can't find a ride. Not future champions, but people who wouldn't embarrass themselves given a few test days and a few weekends to adapt. Even within the field, how many riders get a current-year bike, or full factory support, or get to ride the best bike? Most riders do not get the chance or the support to show their full potential. Frustrating when others seem to coast for years on the strength of past potential and connections (cough Morbidelli cough). So it goes.
Yeh a new rider needs 2 years to show their potential
 
I can still remember a time when a rider was signed to make the difference on a bike.
I also accept that this doesn’t happen now with all the ride height, aero and the tyre pressure ........ we get served nowadays
but I really think that Martin is going to make the difference on the Aprilia next year. I only regret that Enea is not joining him.


Well said. I miss seeing riders able to make the difference like they did. There was always elements of an engineering contest taking place, but it seems now the engineering contest has supplanted the sporting contest.
 
Digi probably just needed time to adapt. It's the problem of so many talented riders, so few seats. Also the nature of prototype racing. I figure at any given time there's a whole grid's worth of riders who are good enough to be in MotoGP, but can't find a ride. Not future champions, but people who wouldn't embarrass themselves given a few test days and a few weekends to adapt. Even within the field, how many riders get a current-year bike, or full factory support, or get to ride the best bike? Most riders do not get the chance or the support to show their full potential. Frustrating when others seem to coast for years on the strength of past potential and connections (cough Morbidelli cough). So it goes.
A Ducati ride of any description has offered more riders a chance to show their wares than has traditionally been the case in recent years but I totally agree. If Casey Stoner had not rather serendipitously gotten the Ducati ride at a time the bike was capable of winning if you could ride the thing and had not been perhaps uniquely capable of riding it he may well have had an also ran career riding on third rate /non SNS michelins.
 

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top