2023 Gran Premio MotoGP Guru by Gryfyn de España/Jerez

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Barbedwirebikerr said:
Cracking race. Was kinda hoping for the banzai pass from BB in last corner.

Also, Fabio finishes 10th after two long laps. Never seen anything on the telecast but must have been a hell of a ride.
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Did well to keep it together for that result, he must have been rather annoyed with the penalty in the first place. I wonder how Oliveira would have gone.
 
Started out, thinking, this is a bizarre race. Later . . . its a great race. Feeling good to see KTMs really keeping it interesting. As much as it's kind of dumb to be a fan of a brand, I remember always rooting for the KTM riders back when they were the underdogs in the 250 class.

Yamaha should offer to let Fabio take off the rest of the year with an option to leave his contract - with full pay. It's ....... criminal to humiliate a great rider by making him ride his ass off at the back of the pack on that POS M1.

Great to see Dani out there. Pretty impressive.

And like all the OG Old Farts here, I am quickly losing interest in the sport. I don't see myself renewing my subscription again if it continues to devolve as it has been. Death by corporate manipulation is slow and sad. Luckily, there's plenty of good flat-track racing going on not too far from me. Always keeping it real.
 
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Fantastic race, and very surprised at how KTM is so fast at this point, not only in the sprints. They looked lost during pre-season testing and I thought they would never make the steel frame work. This year might be their 2017 Ducati season, which is very timely, otherwise Ducati would run with it. Aprilia disappointing, and nice to see the good old Italian engineering acting up again.

The Japanese bikes keep having a nightmare. Mir can't keep the bike upright to save his life.

Agreed with what has been said about penalties, the FIM made its own bed by succumbing to "fan" pressure. Ambition is outlawed, unless you ride for the VR46 team.

michaelm said:
But they have made a rod for their own back by seemingly responding to fan sentiment in regard to MM, to be consistent they probably feel the need to punish everyone for anything.
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The yellow horde keeps ruining MotoGP, what's new?
 
MichaelBolton said:
Fantastic race, and very surprised at how KTM is so fast at this point, not only in the sprints. They looked lost during pre-season testing and I thought they would never make the steel frame work. This year might be their 2017 Ducati season, which is very timely, otherwise Ducati would run with it. Aprilia disappointing, and nice to see the good old Italian engineering acting up again.

The Japanese bikes keep having a nightmare. Mir can't keep the bike upright to save his life.

Agreed with what has been said about penalties, the FIM made its own bed by succumbing to "fan" pressure. Ambition is outlawed, unless you ride for the VR46 team.


The yellow horde keeps ruining MotoGP, what's new?
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Yes, was wondering yesterday if the KTMs would be as impressive in a full length race as they were in the sprint. Speculated whether just their launch control/early race pace was good, but looks as if they can go the distance. Ducatis do still seem to have a hair more corner speed advantage. If there were two less Ducatis in the pack, I imagine the difference between the two marques (in terms of constructor's championship) would shrink considerably. The KTMs had to make a lot of their time by late braking, but looked pretty stabile while doing so. Tho, it's true Binder was having to over-ride the bike a lot.

BTW - who thinks the crazy number of first lap crashes and invisible ice crashes are resulting from Michelin's ...... engineering?
 
Keshav said:
Yes, was wondering yesterday if the KTMs would be as impressive in a full length race as they were in the sprint. Speculated whether just their launch control/early race pace was good, but looks as if they can go the distance. Ducatis do still seem to have a hair more corner speed advantage. If there were two less Ducatis in the pack, I imagine the difference between the two marques (in terms of constructor's championship) would shrink considerably. The KTMs had to make a lot of their time by late braking, but looked pretty stabile while doing so. Tho, it's true Binder was having to over-ride the bike a lot.

BTW - who thinks the crazy number of first lap crashes and invisible ice crashes are resulting from Michelin's ...... engineering?
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Not so sure about the first lap crashes, but definitely the late race crashes, those guys didn't look like they did anything untoward riding-wise at all.
 
The last few laps were great. Before that I was on the verge of shutting it off several times. WTF with these long lap penalties? Interesting that seemingly nobody from the vr46 team ever seems to get a long lap penalty. Maybe they do nothing “wrong.” Hmmm. And the red flags. These guys just feel like they need to win either the sprint or the full race on the first lap. Just about done with this nonsense. Litigated racing with meddlesome stewards. Complete .........

Next weekend I’m heading down to Southern California for the AFT flat track race in Ventura, my favorite short track. Back to watching real racing.
 
Keshav said:
BTW - who thinks the crazy number of first lap crashes and invisible ice crashes are resulting from Michelin's ...... engineering?
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Apparently, Morbidelli:

www.gpone.com

MotoGP, Morbidelli attacks the FIM: "There is no dialogue and they only know how to punish you"

MotoGP: “With them there is not the slightest discussion and they keep you in the dark about everything without giving reasons either to us or to you in the media. The problem with this MotoGP is the tyres, after two laps the race is over"
www.gpone.com www.gpone.com

"In my opinion, a big reason for all these accidents is the tyres - he said - each rider's race depends on how many positions you gain at the start and where you find yourself after two laps, since then the tyre temperature rises and you can't do anything more, except to cool them down and figure out how to stay upright. In the end this is a rebus to which you are subjected throughout the race”.
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michaelm said:
I imagine they don’t much care about the views of mostly aging long term fans who are purists about the sport, and see themselves as growing or maintaining the sport by whatever means are necessary. They have I guess been running sprints for years in WSBK to which presumably they are of the view the field has adjusted including in regard to whole of season strategies to win a title. If they are after an American audience which F1 appears to have gained, although mainly it would seem by means of a TV series, the NASCARisation of the sport may even be their best strategy.

Their problem perhaps is that the racing purists very likely include the factories, and the Japanese factories in particular. Whether they can bring the factories with them is the question as you say. I don’t see what is in it for the Japanese factories any more in WSBK or moto GP.

If they make it a silhouette series I certainly won’t be watching, but perhaps they are temporising because they see a transition to E-bikes in the not very distant future, or are not thinking beyond the short term as is the case with many who run corporate entities.
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Drive To Survive sets a perilous new standard for motorsports marketing, imo. In the past, if the commercial rights people were unhappy with the revenue-generating potential of the sport, they focused on the track by meddling with the rules and sporting regs. Sometimes it improved the sport and spectacle. Other times it was side show carnival barking. The France family are probably the most notorious of the people to meddle with the events on track, and Bernie is not far behind. Dorna have surely stolen a few pages from their playbooks over the years.

Liberty Media seem to have a completely different approach because they are integrating motorsport into a much larger entertainment property. The actual racing events are sort of red carpet galas for celebrity drivers and their throngs of fans. Bernie started the trend, but he couldn't progress beyond government shakedowns and red carpet events. Liberty seem to be making the next leap into mass market human drama. It's perilous for a couple of reasons, imo. First, the fanbase becomes much more casual. The manufacturers can make whatever rules they want without much backlash because the efficacy if the reality tv show is all that matters, and serious fans lose leverage. Second, reality tv does not have a particularly long shelf life. Legendary shows will run for a little over a decade before being folded into a new concept. What does that say about the future of motorsport? Is Liberty just planning to loot F1 for another 10-15 years before the regulators shut it all down?

This paradigm affects MotoGP because Ducati and some of the European manufacturers seem to have already adopted the mindset that MotoGP is part of a much larger apparatus. They expected Dorna to deliver hoards of know-nothings who will foot the bill without a bunch of messy backlash from motorcycle fans. It's unclear if this is a cultural shift or merely a way for the boutique manufacturers to acquire the sort of budgets reserved for the global Japanese conglomerates. Regardless, it is not a great development, in my opinion.
 
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Well, Jerez is one of my favorite circuits on the calendar, and this weekend provided some decent motorsport in the premier class. It's a shame about the crashes and the weird application of penalties. For the most part, I'm willing to let race direction slide on minor things that don't strongly correlate with the championship outcome. When they won't let go of something (e.g. double LLP for Marquez), they are wasting everyone's time.

Pecco road brilliantly this weekend, though I was a bit disappointed to see him on the top step, since it makes the championship picture less interesting, and it meant that Miller had not successfully completed his quest to win races for 3 different manufacturers. Binder was amazing as well, and Jack did awesome, though his strange troubles through Ferrari were interesting to see. Every once in a while, he could not get through that turn, and it was an easy pass for Pecco or Binder.

Penalty on Pecco but not on Jack was genuinely curious, since Jack's move on Martin was an old fashioned mugging. Pecco merely barged Jack out of the way. Anyway, it's sad we are talking about race direction. I'm not sure where the new directives are coming from, but with Viegas making frequent public comment, I have my suspicions. I wonder how much longer Spencer can stay before Viegas orders him to fall on his sword. We'll see.

Sad for Mav. Chain problems are almost unheard of. Top Japanese bike was Nakagami in 9th. Yikes. Fabio 10th after serving 2 long lap penalties. Maybe he can salvage something this season. Joan Mir looks like he is WSBK-bound.
 
mylexicon said:
Well, Jerez is one of my favorite circuits on the calendar, and this weekend provided some decent motorsport in the premier class. It's a shame about the crashes and the weird application of penalties. For the most part, I'm willing to let race direction slide on minor things that don't strongly correlate with the championship outcome. When they won't let go of something (e.g. double LLP for Marquez), they are wasting everyone's time.

Pecco road brilliantly this weekend, though I was a bit disappointed to see him on the top step, since it makes the championship picture less interesting, and it meant that Miller had not successfully completed his quest to win races for 3 different manufacturers. Binder was amazing as well, and Jack did awesome, though his strange troubles through Ferrari were interesting to see. Every once in a while, he could not get through that turn, and it was an easy pass for Pecco or Binder.

Penalty on Pecco but not on Jack was genuinely curious, since Jack's move on Martin was an old fashioned mugging. Pecco merely barged Jack out of the way. Anyway, it's sad we are talking about race direction. I'm not sure where the new directives are coming from, but with Viegas making frequent public comment, I have my suspicions. I wonder how much longer Spencer can stay before Viegas orders him to fall on his sword. We'll see.

Sad for Mav. Chain problems are almost unheard of. Top Japanese bike was Nakagami in 9th. Yikes. Fabio 10th after serving 2 long lap penalties. Maybe he can salvage something this season. Joan Mir looks like he is WSBK-bound.
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Yes, either both should have been penalised or neither imo, and probably the latter. Jack’s move was the sort of pass which has been the bread and butter of at least 3 recent world champions though including several moves on Jack himself by Mir, and was allowable for them so Dorna has wrought this confusion and inconsistency themselves imo. It is hard to rule consistently in a sport you have encouraged to become/allowed to become narrative based. I guess Jack himself thought he was in Martin’s clutches because of the move put on him and the stewards may have agreed, but the two incidents should of course be considered independently particularly since the riders involved were different.
 
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