2020 Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

michaelm · Sep 14, 2020

Bern1 said:
I wouldn’t begrudge vr another title, as long as he can win it fair and square. That is, without running others off the road and/or applying all the other sordid dirty tricks he has used in the past.

That’s it. He doesn’t seem to be up to any ‘mind games’ off track manipulation this year.

I had the same thought as birdman, I think he is some chance. The young guys could all implode, and Vinales is too inconsistent. He is also up against Dovi though who might also back his way into a title by means of guile and consistency while lacking the outright pace of the younger riders.

warthog1 · Sep 14, 2020

Would love to see Dovi win it and still tell to Ducati to get stuffed.

The Burning Barber · Sep 15, 2020

michaelm said:
That’s it. He doesn’t seem to be up to any ‘mind games’ off track manipulation this year.

I had the same thought as birdman, I think he is some chance. The young guys could all implode, and Vinales is too inconsistent. He is also up against Dovi though who might also back his way into a title by means of guile and consistency while lacking the outright pace of the younger riders.

Absolutely agree with this. I always thought that if Rossi was going to win a title in the twilight years of his career it would more likely be down to patience and consistency instead of outright raw speed. The same could be applied to Dovi. Does anybody know the least amount of victories anyone has ever clinched the title with? 2020 is 2020 after all.

michaelm · Sep 15, 2020

Ncky won with 2 race victories, but I think there is a fair chance he might have managed a 3rd win in the last race which Bayliss won had he needed the points.

p4p1 · Sep 20, 2020

I think Mir should probably be championship favourite now. Most top 5 finishes this year. If not for what happened at the second red bull race he would be leading the championship.

warthog1 · Sep 20, 2020

Long lap penalty [emoji107]
How to spoil a blokes race and knock him out of championship lead.

michaelm · Sep 20, 2020

p4p1 said:
I think Mir should probably be championship favourite now. Most top 5 finishes this year. If not for what happened at the second red bull race he would be leading the championship.

Was going to post the same. Brilliant late race pace again, I would really like to see another Suzuki world champion given their tradition in the sport, and he is a great young rider and a real racer with his passes.

Woodstock · Sep 20, 2020

The week I move Maverick from a gold to silver rider in my fantasy team and he goes and wins the race. Still, I swapped him with Mir so not all bad!

p4p1 · Sep 20, 2020

warthog1 said:
Long lap penalty [emoji107]
How to spoil a blokes race and knock him out of championship lead.

Just don't ride on the green bits. They replaced all the grass and gravel etc with bitumen so they need to have some kind of penalty for riding over what would have been grass or gravel.

warthog1 · Sep 20, 2020

p4p1 said:
Just don't ride on the green bits. They replaced all the grass and gravel etc with bitumen so they need to have some kind of penalty for riding over what would have been grass or gravel.

If it was grass or gravel with the amount of green he ran over it would have been far call of a penalty, not slower at all.
Twas ..... imo

Bern1 · Sep 20, 2020

With the pace of Vinales it's hard to make the argument that Yamaha has detuned the engine to save it. It's looking more like Fabio is not quite as strong as thought. There has been a few times now when he couldn't close the deal and pass when it counted. And gone down under the pressure at least once. With Morbidelli's pace it's also difficult to make the argument that there are differences between Petronas and the factory team.

Is this where talent meets setup and communication capabilities, or mental pressure?

Bern1 · Sep 20, 2020

warthog1 said:
If it was grass or gravel with the amount of green he ran over it would have been far call of a penalty, not slower at all.
Twas ..... imo

I think it's also the fact that he exceeded track limits multiple times previously that was a factor.

As mentioned, there has to be some way to keep riders honest if you are going to remove the danger of running into a barrier or losing control on grass or gravel. At the same time, if there is no real danger, how can you expect a racer to not take advantage if it's to be had?

Even if it's the rules, it's still ..... from a spectator's view.

p4p1 · Sep 20, 2020

michaelm said:
Was going to post the same. Brilliant late race pace again, I would really like to see another Suzuki world champion given their tradition in the sport, and he is a great young rider and a real racer with his passes.

Looking at all three championships:
Mir is only 4 points down and has had 2 DNFs to everyone above hims 0 or 1. That says to me he *should* score more points over the rest of the season. Dovi is making a real mess of his best and last title chance. Its hard if not impossible to make know what will be or is going on with Yamaha's engines. It could be a huge factor in the championship.

The teams championship is still wide open.
Petronas 147
Yamaha 141
Suzuki 124
Ducati 115
Today was Rins' worst result. He had some good results when he wasn't fully fit now that he is I expect him to outscore Morbidelli, Rossi and Petrucci over the rest of the season. If Mir outscores those in front of him or at least scores a very similar amount I expect Suzuki to bag the teams title.

Manufacturers:
I'd be surprised if Yamaha don't win. I expect Suzuki to get into 3rd over KTM but Duc and Yamaha both have 4 factory bikes and I don't think Suzuki can close the gap to win.

p4p1 · Sep 20, 2020

warthog1 said:
If it was grass or gravel with the amount of green he ran over it would have been far call of a penalty, not slower at all.
Twas ..... imo

You realise that it wasn't just for the one they showed on the telecast? After he received the warning which is normally for multiple times he got a couple of more times before he received a penalty.

p4p1 · Sep 20, 2020

I think Rossi’s chances, however slim they were are done now as well. He can’t afford 2 DNFs when he isn’t getting in the podium.

warthog1 · Sep 20, 2020

p4p1 said:
You realise that it wasn't just for the one they showed on the telecast? After he received the warning which is normally for multiple times he got a couple of more times before he received a penalty.

I watched the race and listened to the commentary.
I saw him not exceeding the track by any large margin or gaining any advantage by doing so. I agree with Daryl Beatties assessment that the penalty was fairly harsh.

Still he does need to watch how Mir overtakes. That is how it is done

misfit · Sep 20, 2020

Exceeding limits rules can always seem harsh. However, it's one of those rules that is the same for everyone. If you get caught, you really shouldn't complain.

p4p1 · Sep 20, 2020

warthog1 said:
I watched the race and listened to the commentary.
I saw him not exceeding the track by any large margin or gaining any advantage by doing so. I agree with Daryl Beatties assessment that the penalty was fairly harsh.

Still he does need to watch how Mir overtakes. That is how it is done

We didn’t see Fabio at every corner for the whole race though.
It can’t be arbitrary, whether an advantage was gained or not is not really the point. The rules are the rules, and while they may seem harsh there has to be a black and white rule. I don’t disagree that it was a bit .... or that it was harsh but race direction had to make a rule about track limits, they did and it is the same for everyone. The harshness of the penalty will stop riders doing it.

Kudos for managing to sit through Beattie talk though, I’m not sure how you managed to do it.

warthog1 · Sep 20, 2020

Look I guess my point was that without the warning coming up on the tv screen I wouldn't have noticed he was exceeding track limits. It appeared marginal at best.
Without that warning and penalty the race would likely have concluded without any complaint.
Life isn't black and white there are shades of grey in almost everything.
A slightly autistic yes/no interpretation as that represented to me was a bit unnecessary from a safety or competitive advantage scenario.
Still Quartararo seems to have accepted it and moved on so I should let go too.

I like Beattie and his commentary, I watched him race and enjoyed that too.
I appreciate having someone on who has been a rider and gives a rider's perspective. Better than just a professional commentator with no competitive history imo.

p4p1 · Sep 20, 2020

I don’t disagree about his insight, it’s excellent and he was a top rider. His monotone voice puts me to sleep though.

I think at the end of the day they have to set a rule in black and white. Which they did, leave the track limits 3x = warning, 5x = long lap. Deciding whether or not a rider gained an advantage is too arbitrary to apply consistently and as RD have shown they’re not consistent when handing out penalties that are judgement calls.

I think this weekend Fabios behaviour after the demotion and complaining about the 1x Mir left the track etc has lost him some fans. Not that I’m judging him for it, I’ve done worse in when I’ve felt I’ve been wronged by sports officials. Mir on the other hand continues to gain more fans with his balls and/or precise overtaking.

Another point, after Fabio’s tear off ended Jacks race and Pecco believes he hit a tear off that caused him to crash, do tear offs now need to be replaced?

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