2017 Gran Premio Red Bull de España

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RCV600RR said:
I'm always for dumbing down the ECUs to give the riders more control, but I suspect I'm in the minority.
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I'd like to go back to no electronic aids, but it won't happen, these riders would never finish a race, ie it'd be the last 3 crashers who get the trophy.
Another thing, maybe these bikes are to powerful, cut the hp output to 200 and a trained monkey could ride them, certainly be more exciting as there wouldn't be the bitching their is now.
 
RCV600RR said:
You just can't read properly. It is obvious that if Rossi finished behind Zarco, whatever Marquez did to Zarco, he beat Rossi worse.


He wasn't a factory rider. He had factory backing in the same sense that Jack Miller had backing at Honda, and Cal has now; Ben's contract was with Yamaha, but that he didn't have a bike that was equal in spec to JL and VR in 2010.

He had a contract with Yamaha to race in WSBK for two years. After he won in his first year, Yamaha gave him a ride on the Tech 3 bike.
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I read fine. You should have said Rossi got smoked by Zarco, pal.
You are wrong about Spies. He had a factory bike, just like Marco Simoncelli had factory support. The rookie factory rule was in effect when Spies came to MotoGP. Otherwise he would have gone straight to the primary team. Have you heard of it?

From 2010 until the end of 2012 a 'rookie rule' existed, which prevented a premier-class newcomer from spending their first season at a factory team. The aim was to help the satellite teams by giving them at least one season with the hottest rising stars.

Ultimately Yamaha was the only manufacturer affected by the rule, World Superbike champion Ben Spies spending a season at Tech 3 before joining the factory Yamaha squad. Suzuki gained an exemption for Alvaro Bautista since they didn't have a satellite entry.
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Here:
Crash, usually a pretty good online rag.
 
RCV600RR said:
The Red Bull Rookies cup was on - Mike Webb couldn't leave his post until that race was finished.
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Thanks for the info, I'm going by Pedro's expression that proper attention wasn't being given to him.

“Firstly and most importantly it's because sometimes they don’t face the things. I came there, I could barely walk, and I went there walking and Mr Mike Webb didn't even want to join the meeting and he was next door. So I deserve a little bit more respect than this.” DP
 
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Arrabbiata1 said:
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If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
Little Walter said:
Disagree. Dovizioso pulled it off perfectly. Lorenzo having been passed panicked and tried to regain position without calculating Pedrosa's trajectory. He had good pace and should have waited until the next turn to repass. There were sufficient laps remaining, if that is, there was anything left of that front Michelin. I wouldn't go so far as to vilify Little Georgie, but he did .... up. You could only say Dovi's ambition outweighed his talent if he had failed to make it stick.
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He did fail to make it stick,he ran in too fast and too wide and caused the crash that put him and two other guys out of the race,nothing perfect about that,zero points....
 
Jumkie said:
Communication from pit is irrelevant, he also said he didn't know his dash was lighting up like a christmas tree, as you allude. Regardless, when you leave the race line who's responsibility is it to rejoin safely? The rider correctly on the race line has no responsibility to assume the professional rider in front of him will not follow the norms or 'new' expectations of racing post Argentina. Dani had zero blame, he should if anything anticipate professional riders will not endanger eachother by re-joing the race line they left.

Dovi's mistake may have caused Lorenzo to drift wide, however, Dovi's mistake did NOT force Lorenzo to return to the race line unsafely. Lorenzo had control of his bike at that moment, he executed the turn in without first checking to see if it was safe to do so. He caused the crash, RD under the new rules should penalize. And I'll add, as per Lorenzo himself based on what he said about the Miller/Lorenzo incident at COTA. That is, Lorenzo did not avoid the collision when he certainly could have and should have, his fault. Again, Dovi was not in control of Lorenzo's bike the moment Jorge decided to rejoin. That Dovi may have caused Lorenzo to drift wide is not a function of Jorge controlling his bike to turning back in, those are two separate and distinct moments.

For me the take away is that Race Direction again demonstrate their refusal to be consistent, not because of incompetence but rather thanof inherent bias at best corruption at worst.
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As I said, I think the satirical article on GP One made the point that you can blame all 3 riders, which makes no rider individually responsible, and we are all, me included, looking at the incident with slightly different slants depending on how much we like or dislike the riders concerned.

Anyone in a 2 rider dice which has been going on for multiple laps is going to try to take the position straight back if the rider overtaking him goes wide. It wasn’t ever a 3 rider dice as Dani had never got anywhere near Jorge. If Jorge knew Dovi had the pace on him and was gone if he made the pass stick I guess he could have anticipated a third rider might have been there, just as Pedrosa could have anticipated Jorge would try to re-pass. Dani does have form for taking other riders out/ being taken out going for inside passes, btw. The salient thing is that MM in Dani’s situation got an effective black flag, and some who argued he deserved it are completely absolving Dani. Whatever else, this was a decision in milliseconds by Lorenzo and I tend to believe he didn’t know Dani was there or didn’t realise until it was too late to stand his bike up which is what he has done in the circumstance for many years in the premier class including with Miller recently as you alluded to (EDIT I am willing to believe red mist/bad blood could take Lorenzo away from his habit/practice of many years in regard to Dovi or Rossi, but not Pedrosa with whom he has no history of which I am aware).

You and I are at least being consistent, I did say Rossi marginally had the corner at Argentina. I think what you can’t say and be consistent is that Argentina was MM’s fault and this was Lorenzo’s fault.
 
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JPSLotus said:
Going to disagree. Dovizioso ran wide because he outbraked himself, Lorenzo took the right line (based on being pushed wider than would have been normal) to repass only he wasn't paying attention for Pedrosa. Either way if Dovi doesn't miss the corner that badly Lorenzo isn't forced wider than he would have been. Lorenzo was still ahead of Dovizioso no matter what. Dovi was too desperate and it cost him and everyone else. Chain reaction.
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I’ll raise your Dovi with a Pedrosa.
Pedrosa stated that he was hanging around behind Lorenzo and Dovi, waiting for them to make a mistake. This is the flying midgets MO his entire career. Too chickenshit to make a pass and wait for other riders to make a mistake. He attempts to pounce while your out of shape and desperately trying to reel it back in. If he didn’t have such pathetic race tactics and tried to actually race, he would be chasing his teammate instead of getting a tow off inferior bikes.
As we just saw, Its an eventual recipe for disaster.
The only thing heroic about Captain CTE is that he can work through the wrist pain to endorse those Repsol checks.
Are they even checks anymore, or does Honda pay him in gift cards?
 
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JohnnyKnockdown said:
I’ll raise your Dovi with a Pedrosa.
Pedrosa stated that he was hanging around behind Lorenzo and Dovi, waiting for them to make a mistake. This is the flying midgets MO his entire career. Too chickenshit to make a pass and wait for other riders to make a mistake. He attempts to pounce while your out of shape and desperately trying to reel it back in. If he didn’t have such pathetic race tactics and tried to actually race, he would be chasing his teammate instead of getting a tow off inferior bikes.
As we just saw, Its an eventual recipe for disaster.
The only thing heroic about Captain CTE is that he can work through the wrist pain to endorse those Repsol checks.
Are they even checks anymore, or does Honda pay him in gift cards?
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I can claim further consistency on my part, because I blamed Dani at least 60% for the Simoncelli incident.
 
Jumkie said:
Communication from pit is irrelevant, he also said he didn't know his dash was lighting up like a christmas tree, as you allude. Regardless, when you leave the race line who's responsibility is it to rejoin safely? The rider correctly on the race line has no responsibility to assume the professional rider in front of him will not follow the norms or 'new' expectations of racing post Argentina. Dani had zero blame, he should if anything anticipate professional riders will not endanger eachother by re-joing the race line they left.

Dovi's mistake may have caused Lorenzo to drift wide, however, Dovi's mistake did NOT force Lorenzo to return to the race line unsafely. Lorenzo had control of his bike at that moment, he executed the turn in without first checking to see if it was safe to do so. He caused the crash, RD under the new rules should penalize. And I'll add, as per Lorenzo himself based on what he said about the Miller/Lorenzo incident at COTA. That is, Lorenzo did not avoid the collision when he certainly could have and should have, his fault. Again, Dovi was not in control of Lorenzo's bike the moment Jorge decided to rejoin. That Dovi may have caused Lorenzo to drift wide is not a function of Jorge controlling his bike to turning back in, those are two separate and distinct moments.

For me the take away is that Race Direction again demonstrate their refusal to be consistent, not because of incompetence but rather because of inherent bias at best corruption at worst.
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RD more or less said their decision was biased as they threw the caveat out there of these 3 were the cleanest riders on the grid . In other words they chose not to penalize based on history just like they chose to penalize Marquez on history. If they want to be taken seriously, they cannot let that be part of the decision process. I personally feel Lorenzo was at fault but it was a racing incident, just like I feel Marquez Rossi was a racing incident.
 
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Barbedwirebikerr said:
No. Lorenzo done what he should have and every rider ever in same situation. .... story is peddlers was fast closing to the space. It's a racing incident. FULLS STOP.
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FULLY agree, racing incident.

Bern1 said:
I like Dovi, but it was up to him to pass cleanly, he couldn’t get it done.
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He did pass cleanly then went wide. Happens a dozen or two times a race.
 
Mick D said:
FULLY agree, racing incident.

He did pass cleanly then went wide. Happens a dozen or two times a race.
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Agreed.

I think some folk just want to take sides and ..... about ..... anything.

It was good racing terminated by an unfortunate turn of events.
 

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