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2 years today RIP supersic

JohnnyKnockdown
3666331383241022

Ive always believed that the means by which he died was a telltale sign that he had not learned anything and still was dangerous.

A number of his previous incidents were caused by him pushing too hard on cold tires. The reason why he crashed that day can most likely be attributed to the same thing. On top of that (if i recall correctly) he crashed more then once in that corner during practice. He was pushing too hard on cold tires in a corner that he was having great problems with. In doing this he showed little regard for his own safety and others as well.

Because of his death this incident has largely been swept under the rug. If he T-boned Rossi instead he very likely could have destroyed Rossis leg and this conversation would be different, I dont think many people would have felt he had turned a corner


 


He was remorseful about Le-Mans 2011, believe me I spoke to him at Shivers 2011 about it.
 
JohnnyKnockdown
3666241383232829

Lets pretend your a GP rider


Youve spent your entire offseason training. Long and painful hours on the road bike and at the gym. You spent countless hours flying around the globe doing PR for your sponsors. It's a drag but it's all worth it when you swing your leg over the bike for 17 sundays or so. This is what you live for

Your team has spent the Off-season tinkering, problem-solving and burning the midnight oil. Much like you they have sacrificed a great amount of time away from their family.

The team owner spends millions of dollars in salaries and transportation.

It's race day halfway across the world from your home. You are a couple of laps in and you have your eyes on the leader. you're going around a corner And suddenly you feel a violent collision ithat sends flying into the air. As your viewing that hard concrete below you you're saying .... I hate this. This is really going to hurt

You hit the ground with tremendous force and try to stop yourself but you're flailing and sliding like a ragdoll. Finally your body stops and it hurts everywhere. You're panicking because you don't know how serious the pain is, you start checking your fingers your arms your legs to see if they move properly. The pain in your shoulder seems to hurt the worst you try to lift your arm and you immediately are seeing stars and feel like passing out. You know something is wrong but you're not sure what. The marshals are urging you to get up and away from the track. You try but your body says no. You're praying that this pain is not something serious. They cart your way to the clinica mobile. You enter the clinic and interrupt Dr. Costas voodoo ritual.

He's talking to you but you have no ....... idea what he saying. He takes an xray and much to your dismay it comes back with broken bones. You know your season is shot and youve got to start all over again.

You get on the nearest flight home. You're miserable being stuck in a little seat in immense pain and discomfort. You get no sleep that night because you're so uncomfortable. The next day you go to the hospita,l first thing they do is make you take your clothes off and wear a hospital robe that strips you of all your dignity. you're nervous and that black thought creeps into your head"What if I never wake up from this"

Hours later your awoken and you feel like somebody beat you with a baseball bat. Their constantly sticking needles into you. Your morale is in the gutter because everything that you worked for is now gone. You can barely move your arm and it's incredibly painful every time you try. A week later you still feel like .... from all the drugs they're giving you. You feel like giving it up but you know you love it too much and you will go back. All you want to do is get back on the bike but you know you can't. The guy that put you in the dirt has no remorse and still gets to race while you're sitting on the couch

and people wonder why you will not shake his hand


 

 

Great post JK.  I agree with your assertion (somewhere in your post) that Sic was a dangerous rider, especially in the lower categories.  I don't think, and Arrabi will have to forgive me for disagreeing with him, other high profile riders were more or less "utter liabilities" than Simoncelli.  In the lower categories, we could see many riders with sketchy racing, Lorenzo, Barbera, DeAngelis, etc were on their day fairly dangerous, not to mention Marc (only one of these spectacularly torpedoing another rider after the flag, but lets shelve that as people seem to be growing tired of the fact).  These riders also displayed many challenges adjusting to the MotoGP class.  You have noticed how people have rationalized the magnitude of the impact to somehow conclude the severity of the "danger" is related to the amount of force, but frankly a mistake (willful or otherwise) leading to a collision causing a crash is self evident.  When Sic caused Lorenzo to crash, it was him crashing out first, not actually t-boning Lorenzo, while say Buatista's straight torpedo of Lorenzo and Rossi (and a fleet of Ducati's at Valencia) was worse but also deemed a "racing incident"--a lazy excuse for people to place blame.  I'd say Bautista is more of a liability than Marco was in MotoGP.  And,  if we are to give this ........ argument that somehow magnitude of the force when colliding is especially more egregious than less force with the same effect, then certainly Marc could be exonerated and Bautista lynched; which should highlight just how misguided is such an argument.  Bautista has a slight reputation, though isn't no where near on the radar that Simonchelli was, while Marc this year is celebrated and or apologized by expert and spectator alike for his collisions and near misses.  

 

Where I think I differ with your opinion is that I also had a sense that Sic was becoming more mindful about being on track. It was a sense that I got from his podium, where I think him standing up there perhaps might have clicked something in his mind that this was the way to have success--steadily.   That certainly was not a linear curve, but rather a general consciousness that he needed to make adjustments, is why I perceived at least.  The crash that ultimately took his life can be attributed to his willingness to press early on cold tires as you say, but something must also factor in to the freakishness of the accident itself.  And this is why its important for riders to be mindful, as the unexpected can occur, as for example did with Marc's now infamous destruction of a sensor cable.

 

We will never know where Marco Simoncelli was headed in terms of adjusting to track etiquette, but I just got a sense he was headed in the right direction.  Regardless the lesson was loud and clear, roadracing is dangerous without the need to take unwarranted risks, which makes the apologies for similar antics today rather disturbing.
 
I neither apologised nor lambasted marco's on track infractions. Like most i want to see close racing but safe racing. In this sport mistakes happen in a nano second and hindsight is a wonderful thing as they say. I don't think any of Marco's infractions were malicious like some of the crashes i have seen. Take Marquez wilairot or Capirosi Harada as examples. Then we have stupid crashes like Toni Elias as mentioned. Then we have racing incidents where the racing was close but a mistake was made. In my mind Marco's was in-between these last 2. I do think he was trying to improve in this area and i believe the offered handshake was an indication of this. Like a promise to the other riders. Sadly that handshake was refused and i believe refused for bitchy self promotional reasons made easy in this drama fed tabloid society we live in.
 
I am going to speak of the crash in minor detail. If you don't like it dont read.


remember the moment clearly, first watching him wash out, gutted as I was a supporter. Watching the bike claw back onto the race line, shocked. Seeing that helmet come off and Marco sliding across the tarmac. I was absolutely devastated. Knew it was nasty. I turned the telly off. I was in a depressive, sombre mood for weeks.


One question I always had, and something I often thought of when he was racing. With all that hair how did he ever get that lid on properly? I believe that cause of death was from the impacts to his body. I may be wrong. But helmets aint supposed to come off. If he did survive he was going to have some severe facial trauma.
 
barbedwirebiker
3666631383261482

I am going to speak of the crash in minor detail. If you don't like it dont read.


remember the moment clearly, first watching him wash out, gutted as I was a supporter. Watching the bike claw back onto the race line, shocked. Seeing that helmet come off and Marco sliding across the tarmac. I was absolutely devastated. Knew it was nasty. I turned the telly off. I was in a depressive, sombre mood for weeks.


One question I always had, and something I often thought of when he was racing. With all that hair how did he ever get that lid on properly? I believe that cause of death was from the impacts to his body. I may be wrong. But helmets aint supposed to come off. If he did survive he was going to have some severe facial trauma.


I remember watching the crash and screaming at the TV "let go of the bike". He tried to save the bike and that's what killed him. Trying to pick the bike up on your knee or hold onto it to keep the engine running so you can re-join is common these days but this time it went horribly wrong. I was screaming let go because as i have seen so many riders break a wrist holding on, never in my worse nightmare would i expect what was about to happen. It was a freak accident.


I think your comment about the hair and helmet fit is a justified question. It's not really spoken about and maybe it should be. At the end of the day we all saw his helmet come off and that is not a common thing. Style over safety ?
 
chopperman
3666671383262204

I remember watching the crash and screaming at the TV "let go of the bike". He tried to save the bike and that's what killed him. Trying to pick the bike up on your knee or hold onto it to keep the engine running so you can re-join is common these days but this time it went horribly wrong. I was screaming let go because as i have seen so many riders break a wrist holding on, never in my worse nightmare would i expect what was about to happen. It was a freak accident.

I think your comment about the hair and helmet fit is a justified question. It's not really spoken about and maybe it should be. At the end of the day we all saw his helmet come off and that is not a common thing. Style over safety ?
It is a good point and I do think it was discussed minimally here. It wouldn't have mattered because the impact was somewhere around the lower neck to the upper back. That's what I saw and I'm pretty sure that explanation was given after the accident was investigated.
 
chopperman
3666671383262204

I remember watching the crash and screaming at the TV "let go of the bike". He tried to save the bike and that's what killed him. Trying to pick the bike up on your knee or hold onto it to keep the engine running so you can re-join is common these days but this time it went horribly wrong. I was screaming let go because as i have seen so many riders break a wrist holding on, never in my worse nightmare would i expect what was about to happen. It was a freak accident.


I think your comment about the hair and helmet fit is a justified question. It's not really spoken about and maybe it should be. At the end of the day we all saw his helmet come off and that is not a common thing. Style over safety ?


 


I thought the clasp on a skid lid had a certain pressure then release mechanism/setting to stop a stuck helmet ripping a persons head off with the strap should the helmet be trapped/hit and the persons body continue in direction of travel?


B/S Standards Kite mark?
 
lil red rocket pilot
3666801383264476

I thought the clasp on a skid lid had a certain pressure then release mechanism/setting to stop a stuck helmet ripping a persons head off with the strap should the helmet be trapped/hit and the persons body continue in direction of travel?


B/S Standards Kite mark?


No idea Red. They do all seem to have a seatbelt type strap these days as opposed to the old double ring. Never really gave it much thought to be honest.
 
chopperman
3666841383264872

No idea Red. They do all seem to have a seatbelt type strap these days as opposed to the old double ring. Never really gave it much thought to be honest.


 


It is a question I've often asked myself and not took any further.


In different paddocks from trials to gp I have noticed different clasps fastenings on skid lids and wondered if they have different specific settings.
 
JohnnyKnockdown
3666331383241022

 Because of his death this incident has largely been swept under the rug. If he T-boned Rossi instead he very likely could have destroyed Rossis leg and this conversation would be different, I dont think many people would have felt he had turned a corner


 


As it was, his crash injured Edwards... it could have been much worse.
 
barbedwirebiker
3666631383261482

I am going to speak of the crash in minor detail. If you don't like it dont read.


remember the moment clearly, first watching him wash out, gutted as I was a supporter. Watching the bike claw back onto the race line, shocked. Seeing that helmet come off and Marco sliding across the tarmac. I was absolutely devastated. Knew it was nasty. I turned the telly off. I was in a depressive, sombre mood for weeks.


One question I always had, and something I often thought of when he was racing. With all that hair how did he ever get that lid on properly? I believe that cause of death was from the impacts to his body. I may be wrong. But helmets aint supposed to come off. If he did survive he was going to have some severe facial trauma.


 


Edwards/Rossi GP bike at 100+ on his neck. He had tyre marks on the back of his neck. He was dead before he stopped sliding.
 
JohnnyKnockdown
3666331383241022

A number of his previous incidents were caused by him pushing too hard on cold tires. The reason why he crashed that day can most likely be attributed to the same thing.


If I count correctly they had completed 20 right handers before the fateful corner… Tyres would have been up to temp.
 
chopperman
3666841383264872

No idea Red. They do all seem to have a seatbelt type strap these days as opposed to the old double ring. Never really gave it much thought to be honest.


 


Most of the top spec helmets (and the types GP riders use), still have the double ring setup. The only other straps I've seen have been on cheapo lids. If an impact is strong enough to either pull your helmet off or break the straps, it is strong enough to pull your head off.


 


The saddest part that always sits with me is a shot on the TV coverage I remember where Edwards was sitting on the grass on the side of the track. He crawled forward a bit towards Marco, and then just slumped back as the situation dawned on him.
 
Jumkie
3666491383257303

 

 

Great post JK.  I agree with your assertion (somewhere in your post) that Sic was a dangerous rider, especially in the lower categories.  I don't think, and Arrabi will have to forgive me for disagreeing with him, other high profile riders were more or less "utter liabilities" than Simoncelli.  In the lower categories, we could see many riders with sketchy racing, Lorenzo, Barbera, DeAngelis, etc were on their day fairly dangerous, not to mention Marc (only one of these spectacularly torpedoing another rider after the flag, but lets shelve that as people seem to be growing tired of the fact).  These riders also displayed many challenges adjusting to the MotoGP class.  You have noticed how people have rationalized the magnitude of the impact to somehow conclude the severity of the "danger" is related to the amount of force, but frankly a mistake (willful or otherwise) leading to a collision causing a crash is self evident.  When Sic caused Lorenzo to crash, it was him crashing out first, not actually t-boning Lorenzo, while say Buatista's straight torpedo of Lorenzo and Rossi (and a fleet of Ducati's at Valencia) was worse but also deemed a "racing incident"--a lazy excuse for people to place blame.  I'd say Bautista is more of a liability than Marco was in MotoGP.  And,  if we are to give this ........ argument that somehow magnitude of the force when colliding is especially more egregious than less force with the same effect, then certainly Marc could be exonerated and Bautista lynched; which should highlight just how misguided is such an argument.  Bautista has a slight reputation, though isn't no where near on the radar that Simonchelli was, while Marc this year is celebrated and or apologized by expert and spectator alike for his collisions and near misses.  

 

Where I think I differ with your opinion is that I also had a sense that Sic was becoming more mindful about being on track. It was a sense that I got from his podium, where I think him standing up there perhaps might have clicked something in his mind that this was the way to have success--steadily.   That certainly was not a linear curve, but rather a general consciousness that he needed to make adjustments, is why I perceived at least.  The crash that ultimately took his life can be attributed to his willingness to press early on cold tires as you say, but something must also factor in to the freakishness of the accident itself.  And this is why its important for riders to be mindful, as the unexpected can occur, as for example did with Marc's now infamous destruction of a sensor cable.

 

We will never know where Marco Simoncelli was headed in terms of adjusting to track etiquette, but I just got a sense he was headed in the right direction.  Regardless the lesson was loud and clear, roadracing is dangerous without the need to take unwarranted risks, which makes the apologies for similar antics today rather disturbing.


I have often been on the other side of the argument with both Marco and MM, but I thought at the time and continue to think Dani made a significant contribution to the Le Mans 2011 crash. I am sure no-one, least of all Marco, wanted him to break his collar bone, but that has tended to be the way of things with Dani's clavicles.


 


Not a hint of malice in Marco imo, if sometimes a lack of discretion, and perhaps he would have settled down in the premier class as he did in the other classes. His last accident, which as I have said I fortunately did not see, is the type that can never be eliminated from bike racing. I had the the misfortune to see the similar WSS incident live a few years before.
 
michaelm
3667381383300682

I have often been on the other side of the argument with both Marco and MM, but I thought at the time and continue to think Dani made a significant contribution to the Le Mans 2011 crash. I am sure no-one, least of all Marco, wanted him to break his collar bone, but that has tended to be the way of things with Dani's clavicles.


True, largely given that he appears to have the bone construction of a nightingale.
 

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