ZARCO

Jumkie said:

I was reading it as it developed. I think you summed it up with: we're going to believe what we're going to believe.

I said this after the Argentine debacle, the symmetry of all the details to past parallel incidents is wonderful, and equally fascinating that even with this mirror like correspondence it is possible to arrive at such an incongruous conclusion.

It's almost like looking in the mirror and seeing an upside-down image.


Edit: to add, as I read the argument develope, including the exchanges with RG500gamma, it occurred to me sometimes it just not worth it. Take for example this one assertion, 'Marc got dragged into the Yamaha box with 2 HRC coworkers in tow, therefore insincerity', ok, let's apply this standard: as a point in fact VR was accompanied by 3 coworkers at the Jerez apology parallel incident. 3 greater than 2, whatcha gonna do? I had a buddy that would say when he recognized carrying on was futile: "2 tears in a bucket, mothafuck-it"


If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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michaelm said:

I still bit my tongue and/or keyboard to some extent but last night I tired a little of being called unintelligent by someone I possibly have 50 IQ points on.

I agree Synn has quite good knowledge of the sport, and is capable of valuable discussion of the sport if both parties stay away from their hobby horses, and that I have my own hobby horses was partly the point of the post which prompted your first reply, and I was admitting to some mild trolling of my own, whilst still not arguing other than my genuine views which I pretty much always do in the circumstance. If he wishes to decry posters on here for having buttons which are easily pushed, his own are laughably easy to push, all that is required being any criticism of anything to do with Rossi, apparently extending to criticism of Uccio.

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Jumkie said:

Edit: to add, as I read the argument develope, including the exchanges with RG500gamma, it occurred to me sometimes it just not worth it. Take for example this one assertion, 'Marc got dragged into the Yamaha box with 2 HRC coworkers in tow, therefore insincerity', ok, let's apply this standard: as a point in fact VR was accompanied by 3 coworkers at the Jerez apology parallel incident. 3 greater than 2, whatcha gonna do? I had a buddy that would say when he recognized carrying on was futile: "2 tears in a bucket, mothafuck-it"



Ok so basically what you’re saying is that the fact that people expressing their personal views on a public Internet forum and by that expressing opinions not shared by other fellow forum members is an exercise of futility? If that’s the case bud and exercises in futility is the goal then we’re all in the right place. Because I doubt any member here will suddenly change his views or opinions by reading someone else’s post on his own analysis of whatever the topic is. Btw Michael used a term “fellow partisan” a couple of times when referring to me in exchange with another member. I guess that would make him “your fellow partisan” since you guys agree on something

And to clarify my comment regarding Argentina, I said from what I’ve read it’s been suggested by some Rossi fans that his apology attempt was insincere since he appeared to be “dragged” there like a kid by his team manager. That’s all I said, I never expressed any personal view on the garage situation except that they probably should have waited. Did Marc really sincerely wanted to apologize to Rossi? I have no idea, only he does.

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synn said:

I recommend that you hire a manservant to push these so called buttons.
It’s not easy for someone of your vintage to do that, what’s with arthritis and so on.

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synn said:

It was plain and simple to see that MM was dragged there by Puig.

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michaelm said:

As I have often said, several world champion riders have had their careers seriously adversely affected by the Rossi narrative of the last almost 2 decades, and it genuinely angers me to see MM added to the list, although he is dealing with it rather more effectively than the riders who preceded him.

Recognising it is in all likelihood pointless as you say, I do like as do several others on this forum obviously including you to argue an alternative narrative, and whether or not our efforts have contributed there is something of an alternative narrative out there in general now. I have seen arguments presented on here repeated elsewhere, suggesting to me those arguments either originated on here or are logical arguments which others can also develop, either of which is satisfying to me.

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RG500Gamma said:

1. Ok so basically what you’re saying is that the fact that people expressing their personal views on a public Internet forum and by that expressing opinions not shared by other fellow forum members is an exercise of futility?

2. If that’s the case bud and exercises in futility is the goal then we’re all in the right place.


3. Because I doubt any member here will suddenly change his views or opinions by reading someone else’s post on his own analysis of whatever the topic is.

4. Btw Michael used a term “fellow partisan” a couple of times when referring to me in exchange with another member. I guess that would make him “your fellow partisan” since you guys agree on something

5. And to clarify my comment regarding Argentina, I said from what I’ve read it’s been suggested by some Rossi fans that his apology attempt was insincere since he appeared to be “dragged” there like a kid by his team manager. That’s all I said, I never expressed any personal view on the garage situation except that they probably should have waited. Did Marc really sincerely wanted to apologize to Rossi? I have no idea, only he does.

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RG500Gamma said:

Jumkie said:

Edit: to add, as I read the argument develope, including the exchanges with RG500gamma, it occurred to me sometimes it just not worth it. Take for example this one assertion, 'Marc got dragged into the Yamaha box with 2 HRC coworkers in tow, therefore insincerity', ok, let's apply this standard: as a point in fact VR was accompanied by 3 coworkers at the Jerez apology parallel incident. 3 greater than 2, whatcha gonna do? I had a buddy that would say when he recognized carrying on was futile: "2 tears in a bucket, mothafuck-it"



Ok so basically what you’re saying is that the fact that people expressing their personal views on a public Internet forum and by that expressing opinions not shared by other fellow forum members is an exercise of futility? If that’s the case bud and exercises in futility is the goal then we’re all in the right place. Because I doubt any member here will suddenly change his views or opinions by reading someone else’s post on his own analysis of whatever the topic is. Btw Michael used a term “fellow partisan” a couple of times when referring to me in exchange with another member. I guess that would make him “your fellow partisan” since you guys agree on something

And to clarify my comment regarding Argentina, I said from what I’ve read it’s been suggested by some Rossi fans that his apology attempt was insincere since he appeared to be “dragged” there like a kid by his team manager. That’s all I said, I never expressed any personal view on the garage situation except that they probably should have waited. Did Marc really sincerely wanted to apologize to Rossi? I have no idea, only he does.

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Exactly so. It's amazing how many times people say things that are literally irrefutable and still counter-posters just gloss over a solid fact or simply present alternative-facts. And no - I'm not talking about flames, just regular discussion. Confirmation bias is just a fact of life, but seems (because some forum members are so humorlessly and deadly serious) extra bad here. I'm almost shocked when some members actually admit being wrong. It's too easy to be drawn into that tribal state of thinking. I dislike a lot of things about Rossi, but don't "hate" him the way some do, but it's very easy to sucked into the divisiveness and partisan group-think because there's that kind of inherent tribal belief that you can win the
Truth War by dint of sheer numbers, as in, how many times do we hear people say that Rossi is blameless and pure as the driven snow, because after all, he has SO many fans, ergo, he can do no wrong.

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Jumkie said:

1. Yes, for the most part, and you advanced my point with 3.

2. Agree. Mike and I, and a few of us still here have argued and re-argued the same points, you're just the latest person, I should note yours and his exchanges were quite amicable and calm, though without exaggeration probably 100 times these points have been made by opposing perspectives, hence my point about futility (which you advanced with 3.). Consider the incidents span from Jerez 2011 to Argentina 2018.

3. You agree with me then.

4. Yes.

5. There's an implicit message bringing up the assertion that "you've read", it's not that cryptic but I'll take your clarification on face value; however you could also cite that you've "read the opposite", the actual act Marc walking over to VRs garage, and more to the point you "saw" on the world wide feed Marc make a conciliatory attempt! Your point, wittingly or unwittingly, is to question the sincerity of it based on "what you've read". It's predictable then that Mike addressed your implicit message.

"3>2" is my 2 cents for 5.



If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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povol said:

Rossi then storms the after race party demanding explanation of why Dani raced hi so hard.

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RCV600RR said:

Not true.

http://motogpforum.com/motogp/24678...opo-motomatters-discussion-16.html#post448050

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Jumkie said:

I've been waiting to use this line, given the recent flurry of musical wacko-mole.

You claim you're not articulate, but you once said: "It's only rock and roll but i like it." MikeM circa 2015



Wait, wait...

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

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RCV600RR said:

What was Roger's forum, again? I missed all that malarkey.

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birdman said:

This is my personal version of historical record and I make no attempt to be factually correct it is just my perpective; that being powesliders was once the greatest of all time forum. Even the likes of Krop were regular contributors and I wouldn’t mind betting he spent as much time here gathering info as he did on his own forum. There was a lot of everything from trolling to banter to serious debate. Some posters knew each other very well, others were newbs it didn’t really matter.

Some .... happened I don’t really know what it was all about but the end result was peeps left on mass. It was a ghost town.

Roger was a poster with basically the opposite views of my own. Typical Rossi vs Stoner fans. We clashed often enough nothing serious but I admit I trolled him at times. So I had some reservations joining his site but there wasn’t much alternative. Of note you had to email him personally to be allowed to join.

Once there, it was apparent to me he was attempting to recreate the brilliance of powersliders, specifically by having the absolute minimum of moderation and by himself never taking sides and banning posters based on his own preferences. He was totally unbiased as far as I could tell.

Yet things still went to ..... I won’t even say for certain it was two trolls, just my own interpretation. I couldn’t understand att why Roger stood back somewhat and more or less just let it play out. Needless to say it went pear shaped and that’s all she wrote.

What I didn’t get then but I finally understand now is there is always some troll I can somehow justify in behaviour and choose to allow to fight my battles. Because it’s obviously a choice. The troll says what I don’t have the balls to say, usually against some anonymous enemy that gets under my skin somehow. You know, get an anti troll to fight the troll you yourself can’t or won’t stoop low enough to. To do the dirty work. I thought I was using them, when in fact it was the other way round. Which is what is happening now.

In a nutshell, it was so easy to get caught up in all this .... and take sides, it was even demanded to take sides. But rather than that I’m going to step back and completely disengage from this, that’s what I finally learnt from Roger as the only solution, other than moderation (hi Krop). Id say hi Duc, in fact it’s curious exactly what Duc is doing here with this forum. Tax write off perhaps Duc?

Powersliders was just this rare phenomenon that I guess by it’s own nature couldn’t last for long.

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BarryMachine said:

Krops was actually still here until Rogs. Forum folded cos pretty much when jumkie came back Krops decided not to come here anymore. I assumed there had been some bitching about him on Rogs forum, cos it seemed folk were all sucky up to Krops up until they left. Then it was the returnees bad mouthing Krops fot some reason.

This place was just less bitching when Rogs crew left. Had many new members most notably women members. Posts on here inreased dramatically around race day. Still attracted the synns talpas and tcwvxyz' ..... but that was inevitable. Lol.

I much preferred it cos there was way less essays about absolute guff and clogging and posters trying to "own" the forum. And when Duc banned the ....... .... they left in a huff

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Jumkie said:

As usual, you're full of fairytales Fairy Machine. Krops was here as late as 2015, and then he withdrew, which was actually his second time after leaving once before (though I'm sure he still lurks for ideas) because unlike his site, he cannot ban members here for expressing their opinions about the 2015 season end debacle. It's not like he can mine his site for unique ideas from the other side, they’ve all been banned. Are you aware you can still mingle with Kropos, as you and your buddy love to dream up lies to blame krops leaving because of me, this doesn’t actually prevent you or anybody from interacting with him, he is one click away genius.

(https://motomatters.com/forum/index.php?sid=2562ada092b52c2b19f2ef35f3c1ce5e).

The irony never ceases, I wonder how quickly YOU in particular would be banned from Krop's forum for the relentless forum klogging, thread spamming, and childish quips devoid of substance, not to mention going around kalling me Hitler because I had the balls to point out your trolling. Try it, join his forum, then cut and past all the stupid .... you say he, post us a link, I'd love to see how long you last. Go back and read some of the .... you were posting before I called you out in the Qatar thread, you shameless prick.

Your “utopia” is the dream of posting without anybody ever rebutting your stupid quips, which is all you've ever been good for; and its why you commit to memory all the names that have made you look and feel inadequate: Rog, Talps, Moto vudu, Synn, tcwxx (whoever that is) and ‘every’ Rossi fan non-Stoner fan that has ever joined. It's why you conjure up wild theories as to their identity, ‘they must be Rog’, that's the extent of your analytical capacity: 'he bad man, he make me angry, he mean man, he be roger" the guy you’re STILL sulking over and hilariously can't keep out of your mouth.

Incidentally Fairy Machine, you were partly living out your utopian dream, most of your stupid posts were skipped over as useless quirky reactions, now your relative anonymity on account of being dim-witted has gained you notoriety, drawing attention for being a troll.

I remember your 'forum utopia', it was a 'ghost town', and one day you and kesh were sucking up to krops talking about how it was so great that nobody posted here anymore, and you both cowardly added my name negatively into the discussion (just like you and kesh love to do when you think others aren't reading). It's ironic that you are replying to Birdman, because it was this exact exchange where he told you, kesh, and krops that the forum was better with me and others posting regularly bursting your little bubble of utopia. I remember it clearly as it prompted me to reach out to Birdy and thank him for setting the record straight. Speaking of the record, joining Rog's forum wasn't mutually exclusive, most of us still posted here simultaneously. They didn’t ‘leave’ like you love to say, most posted on both sites and continued to do it until Kesh nuked the other one (kinda like what you and him have been trying to do here). It was never supposed to 'replace' PS, as you have been saying, ask your buddy KayDee, it was only a space where we could express ourselves without some KIM type censure (like your utopian dream, speaking of Krops).

You love to talk .... about those who joined which is great because when you do you are effectively talking .... about your homie kesh. This is quite amusing. Every time you talk .... about that the other forum you’re pissing on your legs, as each of you walk in lock step and hold each other up. And, I'll repeat this, if Rog was such a monster why did he pull over 50 of the best members to post on his site? Her is another tid bit, I joined late to that site, and I have never resented those who didn’t join, I have never seen anyone talk smack to a member here that didn't join! We all understood the premise. Contrast this fact with the following, I've read a few members here talk .... that some of us posted on another forum, who does that? Your words betraying your own insecurities. Rog and all of us were fine with it, it wasn't a club, inasmuch as me being a member other forums shouldn't make you jealous now either. That was the point BM, the freedom to do and say whatever the .... we wanted, so much freedom that he even let a ....... join because that was the premise. Ask Kaydee, it was open to anybody, and it was 'not invite only', the problem was it was tricky finding the site through Google because it was buried under pages. Kropo joined the site, and he didn’t PM anybody here for an invite, he was just savvy enough to find it publically. It was always the intention to be public, open, and free to say whatever. Krops promptly left because like this forum, people were willing to tell him they disagreed with some of his opnions, not all but some. This proven too much for him. I posted a tweet of Kropo’s here which said (paraphrasing): ‘Ban quickly and ban often, that’s my motto.’ (over very close to this).

Not surprisingly that your chickenshit utopia is the similar utopia of motomatters' forum and comments section, nobody should be allowed to say anything that disagrees with you. I have another question for you ..... machine, who would you have banned all these years if you had control of this forum? Me, (insert several well informed members here) and Rog, Talpa, Moto Vudu, Synn, Tcwxx (I don't even know what you mean there) and everybody that doesn't agree with Dirty Harry Machine, the forum cop (or copout). That’s what you want right? ‘Ya’ll should leave the forum and leave me alone with the three guys that wuv me.’ You’re the most sensitive Aussie I’ve ever heard of, a little whining ...... Instead of ..... Machine, I should just call you KIM for short. Ironically, a forum using your standards would have banned an unwanted pariah such as Kesh, yeah... based your standards! Think about that B-KIM.

Since the Qatar thread I became yours and Kesh's target because I pointed out how you were trolling, klogging, and destroying threads. I’m happy to correct you every time you want to open up your stupid mouth about something you don’t know .... about (granted, that’s a lot). The fact is you were trolling before I spoke up, particularly as you and kesh theorized about synn's identity because you had both become frustrated that he wouldn’t bow out to your relentless chasing like Albert Tatlock and Dog knows how many others you have chased off. Now to your chagrin he is becoming a regular contributing member. I don't subscribe to some of his opinions nor do I think its necessary to employ provocation as he seems to have knowledge of the sport, but I recognize we are passionate and sometimes its just easier to take a pot shot than to engage, Dog knows I'd be pot or kettle. Now most of us have moved on. Synn and others are engaging people about ‘racing’ debate, and you’re still interjecting useless one-liners that go down like the Titanic.

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