Yamaha extends Rossi contract to 2018

michaelm said:

Bottom line is that while I agree with Povol that Rossi is a manipulative prick, like Povol I think he is still a great rider, if not significantly better than other greats as he was at one stage hyped to be. No-one particularly including me complained about Mick Doohan's advantages during his 5 year run of titles.

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And while outraged conspiracists were bemoaning the SNSs nobody (that I know of) was showing any concern over Bridgestone engineering a tire specifically to suit the Ducati. Any given company is going to throw their weight behind the rider who will show off their product to the best advantage.

J4rn0 said:

"Summons" is your personal view, not the reality. Rossi is free to invite anybody to his trailer, or to be invited to anybody's trailer or office for that matter. That you like it or not -- it's his trailer. [emoji14]

For the record, the supposed "summoning" was pretty useless because Ezpeleta didn't buy Rossi's argument at all, and publicly rejected Rossi's theory. So there you have it, a fact! And surprise-surprise, it doesn't fit with your narrative. Try again, you can do better...

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Rossi didn't summon Carmyellow, he "invited" him. Reality according to J4rn0. Buddy, are you aware this was caught on tape? Does context mean nothing to you?

Hahaha. J4rn0, where do u come up with this stuff?

Carmelo didn't buy Rossi's side, except for that interview in his office where he basically says he did. Not to mention, in that same interview Ezzy is bothered by the criticisms of the Yellow Hordes and announces he will revamp Race Indiscretion because of all the Karel Hanika fans upset with the penalty he received. Oh wait, Ezzy didn't change it because of Karel Hanika, he admits to changing the organization because poor Rossi felt uncomfortable.

Seriously J4rn0, is this the prevailing opinion in Italy? That the summons by Rossi to Carmelo, caught on tape after the ultimate smoking gun, Marquez's failure to pass Lorenzo, was a mere friendly "invitation"? What do you suppose Rossi wanted to discuss with Ezzy, CEO of Dorna? In the context of publicly calling Marquez a cheater; maybe VR was inviting Carmelo Clause for a pizza?


Rossi to Carmelo: " Eh, what did i tell you?" [Rossi grabs Carmelo like an old friend referencing an intimate previous conversation they obviously had.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "I told you on Thursday didn't i?"

[Repeats]

"I told you on Thursday didn't i?"

Carmelo: [Laughing, looking awkward and unprofessional, certainly not the demeanor of the most powerful man in the organization, more like a man trying to appease a demanding and important client.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "That sucks, it is shameful."

Carmelo: [ Smiling, pats Rossi on shoulder, behaving like a child being scolded by a playground bully.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "we will talk later, we talk later."

<both pat eachother, while Rossi puts both hands on Carmelo's shoulders>

Rossi to Carmelo: "After you come to my office so we speak in the motorhome."

[Note: not an invitation. You don't 'request' a superior on a date by saying; "After you come to my office so we can speak..." This is the way one speaks to a subordinate.]

Carmelo: "OKay."

Keshav said:

And while outraged conspiracists were bemoaning the SNSs nobody (that I know of) was showing any concern over Bridgestone engineering a tire specifically to suit the Ducati. Any given company is going to throw their weight behind the rider who will show off their product to the best advantage.

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Bridgestone spent several years working with Ducati to produce a tyre which suited their bike, the supposed object of prototype racing at least at that time, starting from a position of definitely not being the best tyre.

I had a problem with the 2 (or more)-tier system run by Michelin, but not with SNS tyres favouring Rossi in particular. As you say Rossi probably gave them their best chance of winning anyway, but I see little evidence that the other SNS riders were unhappy with the SNS tyres in general, or that Honda, who would seem likely to be able to apply significantly more leverage to Michelin than any individual rider, even one as influential as Rossi could, were unhappy for that matter either.

I like how this fan titles the video. According to him Ezpeleta has come to Rossi in disgust for what Marquez has done. Ha!


"Ezepeleta after the race come's to Rossi in Disgust what Marquez did!"

J4rn0 said:

"Summons" is your personal view, not the reality. Rossi is free to invite anybody to his trailer, or to be invited to anybody's trailer or office for that matter....

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Rossi to Carmelo: " Eh, what did i tell you?" [Rossi grabs Carmelo like an old friend referencing an intimate previous conversation they obviously had.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "I told you on Thursday didn't i?"

[Repeats]

"I told you on Thursday didn't i?"

Carmelo: [Laughing, looking awkward and unprofessional, certainly not the demeanor of the most powerful man in the organization, more like a man trying to appease a demanding and important client.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "That sucks, it is shameful."

Carmelo: [ Smiling, pats Rossi on shoulder, behaving like a child being scolded by a playground bully.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "we will talk later, we talk later."


<both pat eachother, while Rossi puts both hands on Carmelo's shoulders>

Rossi to Carmelo: "After you come to my office so we speak in the motorhome."

[Note: not an invitation. You don't 'request' a superior on a date by saying; "After you come to my office so we can speak..." This is the way one speaks to a subordinate.]

Carmelo: "OKay."

Keshav said:

And while outraged conspiracists were bemoaning the SNSs nobody (that I know of) was showing any concern over Bridgestone engineering a tire specifically to suit the Ducati. Any given company is going to throw their weight behind the rider who will show off their product to the best advantage.

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Personally I have absolutely NO objection to tyres being made specifically to suit a rider or bike.

But I do have an objection if that manufacturer then does not make those same tyres available to ALL riders who use the brand.

I would also object were that manufacturer to only make tyres to suit one rider where there is a two rider team.

Aside from that, as a fan of tyre wars I say the more suppliers and compounds the better

Jumkie said:

Rossi didn't summon Carmyellow, he "invited" him. Reality according to J4rn0. Buddy, are you aware this was caught on tape? Does context mean nothing to you?

................

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Verbose as usual, Jums? I'll keep it concise -- ironically you (& company) are the same as Rossi late-2015: you make accusations that cannot be proved. Listening to your rants is boring, and replying is a waste of time.
Watch the races and have fun.

michaelm said:

Bridgestone spent several years working with Ducati to produce a tyre which suited their bike, the supposed object of prototype racing at least at that time, starting from a position of definitely not being the best tyre.

I had a problem with the 2 (or more)-tier system run by Michelin, but not with SNS tyres favouring Rossi in particular. As you say Rossi probably gave them their best chance of winning anyway, but I see little evidence that the other SNS riders were unhappy with the SNS tyres in general, or that Honda, who would seem likely to be able to apply significantly more leverage to Michelin than any individual rider, even one as influential as Rossi, could do were unhappy for that matter either.

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I get what you're saying about two tiers, however I cant help thinking that Michelin would want any riders using their product to have the best possible results. I would posit that said two tier system was more a result of

A. The cost of producing custom formulated tires.

B. The limited amount of time between the requested custom formulation, the time it took to calculate the adjustments to the compounding of the rubber.

C. Time involved in actually making them.

D. The winnowing out of tires with defects (as in throwing out the first pancake after the griddle is seasoned) as its known that not every tire produced, once inspected, gets to go racing.

E. Logistics of transporting said tires to the venue.

F. Did I mention Cost cost cost?


Not as if this was all accomplished with the wave of a wand. All the major bike manufacturers fabricate new or improved bits and parts for the riders between races - but said parts don't end up in the hands is every rider of bikes made by them. It's a matter of cost and logistics. That's why there are satellite teams.


Of course a simpler explanation is that it's all a result a conspiracy.

Jumkie said:

I like how this fan titles the video. According to him Ezpeleta has come to Rossi in disgust for what Marquez has done. Ha!


"Ezepeleta after the race come's to Rossi in Disgust what Marquez did!"






Rossi to Carmelo: " Eh, what did i tell you?" [Rossi grabs Carmelo like an old friend referencing an intimate previous conversation they obviously had.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "I told you on Thursday didn't i?"

[Repeats]

"I told you on Thursday didn't i?"

Carmelo: [Laughing, looking awkward and unprofessional, certainly not the demeanor of the most powerful man in the organization, more like a man trying to appease a demanding and important client.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "That sucks, it is shameful."

Carmelo: [ Smiling, pats Rossi on shoulder, behaving like a child being scolded by a playground bully.]

Rossi to Carmelo: "we will talk later, we talk later."


<both pat eachother, while Rossi puts both hands on Carmelo's shoulders>

Rossi to Carmelo: "After you come to my office so we speak in the motorhome."

[Note: not an invitation. You don't 'request' a superior on a date by saying; "After you come to my office so we can speak..." This is the way one speaks to a subordinate.]

Carmelo: "OKay."

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Your purjorative analysis of intent and body language is the definition of subjectivity. Not sure how that helps your narrative. But it did make me larf!! The few times when I have had a boss would NOT reflect a 'superior' / 'subordinate' relationship, but I do realise many do.

Mick D said:

Your purjorative analysis of intent and body language is the definition of subjectivity. Not sure how that helps your narrative. But it did make me larf!! The few times when I have had a boss would NOT reflect a 'superior' / 'subordinate' relationship, but I do realise many do.

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I would say that given how important each of the two are to one another, that the relationship is not one-sided, but quite symbiotic. To imply that #46 is some kind of Darth Rossi using The Force to drag an unwilling Carmello into his lair is a bit melodramatic. My pointing out how mundane is their relationship may cause ire in those invested in the ongoing witch hunt, but I assuredly do not make this point for that reason. But as Mr. Chekhov (Anton that is) said:

"There is nothing more awful, insulting and depressing, than banality.)

Keshav said:

I would say that given how important each of the two are to one another, that the relationship is not one-sided, but quite symbiotic. To imply that #46 is some kind of Darth Rossi using The Force to drag an unwilling Carmello into his lair is a bit melodramatic. My pointing out how mundane is their relationship may cause ire in those invested in the ongoing witch hunt, but I assuredly do not make this point for that reason. But as Mr. Chekhov (Anton that is) said:

"There is nothing more awful, insulting and depressing, than banality.)

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Without wanting to over analyse their interaction given I am not fluent in Italian, or Carmelo's later interview given I am not fluent in Spanish, this is rather the point. Rossi can have a symbiotic relationship with the manager of his team, and can be a mate of Carmelo's when he retires. But his relationship with the guy who runs the sport and who is basically the proxy owner of the sport should surely be more at arm's length while he is actually a competitor I would have thought.

Whether the sport should ever have been put into the hands of venture capitalists to this extent in the first place is another question, of course.

Keshav said:

I get what you're saying about two tiers, however I cant help thinking that Michelin would want any riders using their product to have the best possible results. I would posit that said two tier system was more a result of

A. The cost of producing custom formulated tires.

B. The limited amount of time between the requested custom formulation, the time it took to calculate the adjustments to the compounding of the rubber.

C. Time involved in actually making them.

D. The winnowing out of tires with defects (as in throwing out the first pancake after the griddle is seasoned) as its known that not every tire produced, once inspected, gets to go racing.

E. Logistics of transporting said tires to the venue.

F. Did I mention Cost cost cost?


Not as if this was all accomplished with the wave of a wand. All the major bike manufacturers fabricate new or improved bits and parts for the riders between races - but said parts don't end up in the hands is every rider of bikes made by them. It's a matter of cost and logistics. That's why there are satellite teams.


Of course a simpler explanation is that it's all a result a conspiracy.

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I agree in the main to your summary of the two tier system being attributed to cost Kesh. The thing that doesn't make sense though is the cost of production and provision of the SNS's.
Michelin must've had a motive to spend such an outlay, especially before Bridgestone were on the scene, when they were pretty much the exclusive provider. The podium was almost guaranteed to feature three Michelin caps anyway...

Keshav said:

I would say that given how important each of the two are to one another, that the relationship is not one-sided, but quite symbiotic. To imply that #46 is some kind of Darth Rossi using The Force to drag an unwilling Carmello into his lair is a bit melodramatic. My pointing out how mundane is their relationship may cause ire in those invested in the ongoing witch hunt, but I assuredly do not make this point for that reason. But as Mr. Chekhov (Anton that is) said:



"There is nothing more awful, insulting and depressing, than banality.)

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Is Chekhov having a stab at some kind of super-witty recursive irony?? Of course there are many things more insulting and certainly more depressing than banality ffs.

Cool Blue said:

Is Chekhov having a stab at some kind of super-witty recursive irony?? Of course there are many things more insulting and certainly more depressing than banality ffs.

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In Chekhov's time, class and culture banality was a bane... In our time, class and culture it may well be overstimulation. Context matters.

Well, in Chekhov's time wouldn't lock jaw or bubonic plague be a little more depressing than banality?

yamfan said:

I agree in the main to your summary of the two tier system being attributed to cost Kesh. The thing that doesn't make sense though is the cost of production and provision of the SNS's.
Michelin must've had a motive to spend such an outlay, especially before Bridgestone were on the scene, when they were pretty much the exclusive provider. The podium was almost guaranteed to feature three Michelin caps anyway...

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Good point. But as pointed out ad nauseum, any manufacturer will spend extra resources to assure that the most prominent riders, with the greatest exposure, get that extra tweak or advantage. You do what you do in order to promote your product.

I sell musical instruments and always sell a first rate competent instrument to any customer who walks into my workshop. However, if I should find one piece out of twenty relatively identical pieces that really shines, I will hold it aside for a serious pro who I know will be on national TV or touring with a big name artist. The dilettantes and duffers walk out with an instrument that will make them happy for years; no problem. For the big names - I will spend half an hour of my time at no charge tweaking the instrument for someone I know is capable of discerning and exploiting subtle differences.

Cool Blue said:

Is Chekhov having a stab at some kind of super-witty recursive irony?? Of course there are many things more insulting and certainly more depressing than banality ffs.

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Well yeah.... he was being witty, along the lines of WC Fields' tombstone that is allegedly inscribed, "Better Here Than Philadelphia"

Cool Blue said:

Well, in Chekhov's time wouldn't lock jaw or bubonic plague be a little more depressing than banality?

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I'll just assume you have read 19th century literature and your comments are a joke I'm not getting...

Mick D said:

I'll just assume you have read 19th century literature and your comments are a joke I'm not getting...

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I will and have read almost anything, including Dickens, and can read quite fast, but even so found 19th century Russian literature fairly heavy going, and I would have thought Cool Blue has a point, that there were rather more things causative of misery in 19th century Russia than banality, against which the eventual Russian Revolution was directed even though it was not eventually curative of such ills, and if those who were not peasants/serfs thought banality was the worst problem this may possibly be an indication of why there was a revolution, although those perpetrating the evils whom Chekov had more than adequate opportunity to observe may well have been banal as was famously noted in regard to the Nazis in the following century. Chekov et al seemed to find quite a lot which was tragic but not necessarily banal to describe in any case.

Mick D said:

I'll just assume you have read 19th century literature and your comments are a joke I'm not getting...

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Well, your very generous Mick. Like Michael M I have also read a lot (although I'm not that fast) but I don't think I ever read Chekhov...

Anyway, my point is that taking yourself overly seriously is timeless, as is self effacing ironic, humour.